I knwo you directed this question to Leon and Walter, but since they're not here I will give you the answer.
Tongues is only the word Luke used in discribing languages. It is an actual languages or dialect of a people that the Holy Spirit gave to the disciples to minster to the people.
You can read about it in Acts chapter 2, how the Holy Spirit came upon the disciples with clovne tongues the same as fire and it sat upon each of them, and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak with/in other tongues (languages), as the Holy Spirit gave them utterance(words to speak/say).
It is the ability to speak in a language that you have never studied or learned before. It was given to the disciples for the works of the ministry in spreading the gospel about Jesus Christ throguhout the region as Jesus told them to do in Acts 1: 8... Read Acts 2
I would also like to hear what they say. what kind of tongues do you seek?
Diverse kinds of tongues are mentioned. Whoever can control their tongue can control the whole body. Some people use foul (tongue) language. There is computer language, legal language, baby talk, and love languages. There is also unspoken communications. God confused the languages at one time because of sin and seems to have unconfused them because of Salvation. On the day of Pentecost tongues of fire came upon believers and many heard the gospel preached in their own language. Missionaries pray for this kind when going to foreign places. But there is another kind of tongues, which no man understands. This is what Paul calls praying in the Spirit. Prayer can be greatly enhanced by praying or singing in this �unknown� tongue. As a singer and a musician I have found yet another type of tongue which resembles the unknown tongue. Jazz singers (Louis Armstrong) sing �Scat� sounds to music. These are unintelligible sounds or words like the be-box or shoo bop a bop dang do. This may be the world�s version or counterfeit of what God intended for the believers� use of building up their most Holy faith.
The unknown tongue has a double-barreled effect because while praying or singing in the spirit they can also pray or sing with understanding at the same time in the mind. It has to do with being filled with the Spirit.
Eph5: 18b-19.
��Be filled with the Spirit;
Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord.�
Tongues, which can be interpreted, are a sign for unbelievers. Unknown tongues are mysteries spoken to God, which no man can understand. And it edifies the believer. The Holy Spirit intercedes for us with groaning that cannot be uttered. Some Pentecostal prayer meetings sound like a moaning and groaning session. And some modern Rock music sound like a torture session. There are various kinds of tongues. Some are heavenly some are earthly sensual and devilish.
I disagree with Dave's view, but he did put forth the standard Pentecostal teaching on tongues. I, personally, don't think it holds up in the scriptures, but I know that Paul was not speaking lovingly to the church, but was chastising them. When you read 1 Cor 14, which is where this comes from, remembering that he is telling them off, you get a whole different meaning.
That is just my take on it, and Dave is certainly entitled to his own interpretation of this. Both sides presented here are pretty standard in their nature and acceptance.
I have attended an AOG church where many claimed to have a special prayer language from God and they believe that this is the evidence of being baptized in the Holy Spirit, they call this speaking in tongues.
My understanding of tongues is the speaking in a real language not previously known. The only issue that I had taken with their view is that if I do not have this gift, it is because I lack faith. Other than that to each his own as long as all things are done decently and in order.
I have to disagree with your interpretations and applications.
Here is what you said. I will comment within your statements.
DAVE: I would also like to hear what they say. what kind of tongues do you seek?
Diverse kinds of tongues are mentioned. Whoever can control their tongue can control the whole body. Some people use foul (tongue) language. There is computer language, legal language, baby talk, and love languages. There is also unspoken communications. God confused the languages at one time because of sin and seems to have unconfused them because of Salvation.
WALTER:
First off this post is concerning the "Supernatural Gift" of tongues. The tongue usage you mention is not dealing with this. James was dealing with how the tongue is an "organ" that cannot be controlled and he was referring to the words we speak which can injure someone. Thi sis not the same application when we talk about the "Supernatural Gift" of tongues.
DAVE:
On the day of Pentecost tongues of fire came upon believers and many heard the gospel preached in their own language.
WALTER: This is not correct. People did not hear the Gospel preached in their own tongues at that moment in time. What was said was very specific concerning a "Prophesy" that was being fulfilled AT THAT TIME. The prophesy being fulfilled was a rebuke to the leadership of Israel because of their rejection of Jesus as being the Christ. Here is the Prophesy.
Isa 28:11-14
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue he will speak to this people,
12 To whom He said, "This is the rest with which you may cause the weary to rest," and, "This is the refreshing"; yet they would not hear.
Notice above the exact words that this prophesy said would be spoken in other tongues.
"This is the rest with which you may cause the weary to rest," and, "This is the refreshing".
That is what was being spoken in the other "tongues" on Pentecost.Each person received a supernatural gift to be able to speak in another "language" [tongue] totally unfamiliar to themselves. No mention of the Gospel being preached in other tongues is in the passage in Acts until Peter got up and preached the Gospel to this crowd of Jews who were the same crowd that crucified Christ. However Peter was only speaking in his main language.
DAVE:
13 But the word of the LORD was to them, "Precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little," that they might go and fall backward, and be broken and snared and caught.
14 Therefore hear the word of the LORD, you scornful men, who rule this people who are in Jerusalem, NKJV
WALTER: Ok...that is part of the prophesy verse in Isaiah.
DAVE:
Missionaries pray for this kind when going to foreign places. But there is another kind of tongues, which no man understands. This is what Paul calls praying in the Spirit. Prayer can be greatly enhanced by praying or singing in this �unknown� tongue.
WALTER:
I have to disagree with your assessment here. A person can pray all they want today for the supernatural gift of speaking in Tongues, but the fact is that they will not receive it. Why? Because the Apostles of Jesus Christ are no longer here to lay hands upon them and impart these gifts. I have clearly demonstrated in another post that that is the mode of operation that the Holy Spirit used. Furthermore there is no "spirituaql language" as that is simply a belief stemming from a very bad interpretation of scripture. There is no "heavenly" or Angelic Language that we speak or can speak. Paul was simply using a hyperbolic hypothetical when he talked about speaking in the tongue of Angels. He was exaggerating to make a point. I also addressed this already.
Here is another passage that has been taken out of context and improperly interpreted.
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. NKJV
Charismatics and Pentecostals have interpreted the word "groanings which cannot be uttered" as some kind of tongue or "prayer language". That is simply NOT what Paul is saying here and the Greek Grammar will not support that. Paul was simply addressing the fact that when we are in our weakness and we are just so down that we do not know how or what to pray, the Holy Spirit will pray on our behalf. It is the Holy Spirit that is the one praying... not us. The word "Groanings" means this.
Strongs: G4726 στεναγμός stenagmos pronounced sten-ag-mos' From G4727; a sigh: - groaning.
It simply means "a SIGH". Have you ever been so down and heavy hearted that you just sighed while trying to pray? That is all Paul is talking about here.
DAVE:
As a singer and a musician I have found yet another type of tongue which resembles the unknown tongue. Jazz singers (Louis Armstrong) sing �Scat� sounds to music. These are unintelligible sounds or words like the be-box or shoo bop a bop dang do. This may be the world�s version or counterfeit of what God intended for the believers� use of building up their most Holy faith.
The unknown tongue has a double-barreled effect because while praying or singing in the spirit they can also pray or sing with understanding at the same time in the mind. It has to do with being filled with the Spirit.
Eph5: 18b-19.
��Be filled with the Spirit;
Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord.�
WALTER:
Let's look at more of this passage but in the NKJV. I do not believe the one you are using here conveys the best word usage. The word "yourselves" is somewhat vague and can be interpreted as to speak to yourself and not others while it could mean to others as well.
Eph 5:18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit,
19 speaking TO ONE ANOTHER in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord,
20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
21 submitting to one another in the fear of God.
I do not believe that Eph 5:18 implies anything about "tongues" including the part about being "filled with the Holy Spirit." I believe Paul is trying to convey the contrasts of being drunk which is carnality and being filled with the Holy Spirit which is obviously walking in the Spirit.
DAVE:
Tongues, which can be interpreted, are a sign for unbelievers. Unknown tongues are mysteries spoken to God, which no man can understand.
WALTER:
There is no "unknown tongue" that we can speak. Again this is simply a bad interpretation.
DAVE:
And it edifies the believer. The Holy Spirit intercedes for us with groaning that cannot be uttered. Some Pentecostal prayer meetings sound like a moaning and groaning session. And some modern Rock music sound like a torture session. There are various kinds of tongues. Some are heavenly some are earthly sensual and devilish.
Dave in his Cave
WALTER:
Again there is no "Heavenly Language" [tongue] that we can speak. They didn't even speak in a "Heavenly Language" in the Early Church. The Apostles did not speak in such a thing either. There is absolutely no biblical basis for that belief.
"there is no "spiritual language" ...There is no "heavenly" or Angelic Language ...Paul was simply using a hyperbolic hypothetical when he talked about speaking in the tongue of Angels. He was exaggerating to make a point."
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This is good. And I'll tell you why. Christians generally are wise to emphasize what they agree upon and set aside differences to maintain the central message of the Gospel.Tongues are not central for spreading the Gospel. And I see little profit in arguing over "the wonderful works of God" from Acts 2:11 as a
message of the Gospel.
Acts 2:8b,11b "And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
...we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God."
What I do agree with, from your quote, is this phrase "hyperbolic hypothetical," This is good. Rabbis used this rhetorical exaggeration (hyperbolic hypothetical) method
of exaggerating to make a point. An obvious example of this would be Matt 5:29,30,
""If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away." I don't think Jesus was actually commanding people to pluck out eyes.
..."And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away." I have never heard of any church that teaches us to do that in a legalistic sense.
This is an exaggeration to make a point about not letting your eyes be taken in lust for another mans wife, Matt 5:27-28.
The same could be said about Murder. You are not a murderer if you hate your brother and nobody dies. The rhetorical exaggeration (hyperbolic hypothetical) makes a point that there can be murder in your heart or adultery in your heart and that it is a serious matter.
How then do you know what is to be taken literally or as a hypothetical exaggeration? It goes back to what we receive by God's Spirit. 2 Tim 1:6-7,
..."stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands. 7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind."
A sound mind comes from God and it is basically "Common sense." Christian common sense is good. But Christians sometimes appear to be religious nut cases because of an overly legalistic and/or out of balance teaching in some area. The teaching that you must speak in tongues to be saved is one of them. Common sense from God's Spirit gives knowledge, 1 John 2:20,
"But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. And you don't need a Theology Degree to know God, 1 John 2:27, " But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things.
