Dispensationalist Christians: "End Time" Question about Apostacy...
Posted : 31 Jan, 2012 01:53 PM
If you profess about "how most of Christianity will
become apostate (drifting away from the original
faith) by teaching things contrary to Scripture[By the way, Jesus said the gates of Hell will not prevail against his Church because those that are in his hand none can snatch out of it], then how can you justify the condoning of the Jews building another Temple, which is in fact, bringing about the Old Covenant of animal sacrifices and forsaking the New Covenant that was made with Christ's Blood?
Dispensationalist Christians: "End Time" Question about Apostacy...
Posted : 31 Jan, 2012 04:33 PM
That's the whole point of Aposctacy, it is against what God says in His word. I believe scirpture does tell us there willbe a third temple build by the Jew who think they are doing this for the glory of God, out of their own unbeleif, and the return of the ceremonial rituals will take place of making animal sacrifices as in the Old Testament out of ignorance, again thinking they are doing God's wil, but this is onyl a setup for the antichrist when he comes as Paul; describes for us in I and II Thesalonians.
The temple that will be sbuilt will not be by man's hands, but will be that of the Lord Jesus Christ establishing His earthly kingdom. But the unbelieving Jews in Jesus Christ will rebuild a third temple.
In fact, as we speak, it is somewhat a known that there are some Jews who are in the planning stages now, laying out plans for the thrid temple to be rebuilt, thinking out of ignorance and unbelief as they did in the 1st century when Jesus came, that they are preparing for Christ coming.
Jsus says this: ."So when you see standing in the holy place `the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand -- then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Matthew 24:15-16
"He will confirm a covenant with many for one `seven.' In the middle of the `seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him." Daniel 9:27
"His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation. With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him. Daniel 11:31-32
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
Dispensationalist Christians: "End Time" Question about Apostacy...
Posted : 1 Feb, 2012 08:49 AM
Zaoh, thanks for posting. I was wondering if you could expound on what you meant by the temple sacrifices would be a symbol to remember what Christ did on the cross for us.
Thanks. :peace:
Hey ET. Thanks for your explanation. I do note that some of the verses you used were in references to the 2nd temple though. Daniel makes it clear that in the 9th chapter he is speaking of the second temple being destroyed after the Messiah's coming.
Here is the verse within it's context:
Dan. 9:25 Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times. 26 And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.
So, with that being said, Jesus was pointing to the prophet Daniel's words concerning the destruction of the second temple thereby giving the Jews a sign, since they are the ones who seek it. The whole thrust of of Matthew 24 begins with Jesus speaking of the temple (that was Standing at the time) being destroyed by the Romans.
Even Paul put himself at the time of the son of perdition appearing within the temple that was still standing then.
So, where can the Jews actually follow their Scriptures when there is none to say that a third temple would be built?
We do know that the only temple that was torn down and raised up again was Christ though. That is for sure, but still no verses showing that a third temple will be built by hands (be they Jewish ones or Christian ones).
What are your thoughts on this, sister?
Thanks for responding. :peace:
Btw, I noticed that I posted 3 topics. :laugh: this site is funny.
Dispensationalist Christians: "End Time" Question about Apostacy...
Posted : 1 Feb, 2012 11:07 AM
Hey there Agapeton...:waving:
Yes, you're correct George, along with the understanding and connecting the dots of what Jesus and Daniel speaks in prophecy in Matthew and Daniel chapter 9-12.
The second temple was rebuilt and destroyed, but God say there will be a third temple built, according to what the prophesies speak in Ezekiel and Daniel, and what Jesus and Paul says about the temple.
This will be the place where the anitchrist will set up his camp as Paul says promoting himself to be God, deceiving the people.
When your ead how Ezekiel describes the size of thetemple, it is not like the first, not is it like the scond temple that was rebuilt, it has it own character in size an God tells us that some Jews will return back to their old ways making sacrifice and how the glory of the Lord will depart and them returns, whn the antichrist is destroyed.Ezekiel chpater 40 - 45, and Daniels chpater 8-12. I and II Thessaloins.
The fulfilling of the coming of Christ was not fulfilled when Jesus came the first time, and therefore, the rebuilding of the temple and all the events that will takes place going into the tribulation and milliumin must take place during the end time as Jesus speaks about in Mark chapter 13, and Matthew chapter 24, and the fulfilling of the prophecies by the old prophets of the Old Testament.
We must remember what Jesus has said, Not one dot of what God has spoken will pass away until everything that God has spoken to the prophets is fulfilled.
So no Agapeton, I would disagree the physical third temple has not been already build and destroyed according to what God speaks by the Old prophets.
Dispensationalist Christians: "End Time" Question about Apostacy...
Posted : 1 Feb, 2012 11:39 AM
The Temple Area Restored
Ezekiel 40: 1 In the twenty-fifth year of our exile, at the beginning of the year, on the tenth of the month, in the fourteenth year after the fall of the city�on that very day the hand of the LORD was on me and he took me there. In visions of God he took me to the land of Israel and set me on a very high mountain, on whose south side were some buildings that looked like a city. He took me there, and I saw a man whose appearance was like bronze; he was standing in the gateway with a linen cord and a measuring rod in his hand. The man said to me, �Son of man, look carefully and listen closely and pay attention to everything I am going to show you, for that is why you have been brought here. Tell the people of Israel everything you see.�
The East Gate to the Outer Court
5 I saw a wall completely surrounding the temple area. The length of the measuring rod in the man�s hand was six long cubits, each of which was a cubit and a handbreadth. He measured the wall; it was one measuring rod thick and one rod high.
6 Then he went to the east gate. He climbed its steps and measured the threshold of the gate; it was one rod deep.The alcoves for the guards were one rod long and one rod wide, and the projecting walls between the alcoves were five cubits thick. And the threshold of the gate next to the portico facing the temple was one rod deep. Then he measured the portico of the gateway; it was eight cubits deep and its jambs were two cubits[e] thick. The portico of the gateway faced the temple. Inside the east gate were three alcoves on each side; the three had the same measurements, and the faces of the projecting walls on each side had the same measurements. Then he measured the width of the entrance of the gateway; it was ten cubits and its length was thirteen cubits. In front of each alcove was a wall one cubit high, and the alcoves were six cubits square.
13 Then he measured the gateway from the top of the rear wall of one alcove to the top of the opposite one; the distance was twenty-five cubits[g] from one parapet opening to the opposite one. He measured along the faces of the projecting walls all around the inside of the gateway�sixty cubits. The measurement was up to the portico facing the courtyard. The distance from the entrance of the gateway to the far end of its portico was fifty cubits.The alcoves and the projecting walls inside the gateway were surmounted by narrow parapet openings all around, as was the portico; the openings all around faced inward. The faces of the projecting walls were decorated with palm trees.
The Outer Court
17 Then he brought me into the outer court. There I saw some rooms and a pavement that had been constructed all around the court; there were thirty rooms along the pavement. It abutted the sides of the gateways and was as wide as they were long; this was the lower pavement. 19 Then he measured the distance from the inside of the lower gateway to the outside of the inner court; it was a hundred cubits on the east side as well as on the north.
The North Gate
20 Then he measured the length and width of the north gate, leading into the outer court. Its alcoves�three on each side�its projecting walls and its portico had the same measurements as those of the first gateway. It was fifty cubits long and twenty-five cubits wide. Its openings, its portico and its palm tree decorations had the same measurements as those of the gate facing east. Seven steps led up to it, with its portico opposite them. There was a gate to the inner court facing the north gate, just as there was on the east. He measured from one gate to the opposite one; it was a hundred cubits.
The South Gate
24 Then he led me to the south side and I saw the south gate. He measured its jambs and its portico, and they had the same measurements as the others. The gateway and its portico had narrow openings all around, like the openings of the others. It was fifty cubits long and twenty-five cubits wide. Seven steps led up to it, with its portico opposite them; it had palm tree decorations on the faces of the projecting walls on each side. The inner court also had a gate facing south, and he measured from this gate to the outer gate on the south side; it was a hundred cubits.
The Gates to the Inner Court
28 Then he brought me into the inner court through the south gate, and he measured the south gate; it had the same measurements as the others. Its alcoves, its projecting walls and its portico had the same measurements as the others. The gateway and its portico had openings all around. It was fifty cubits long and twenty-five cubits wide. (The porticoes of the gateways around the inner court were twenty-five cubits wide and five cubits deep.) Its portico faced the outer court; palm trees decorated its jambs, and eight steps led up to it.
32 Then he brought me to the inner court on the east side, and he measured the gateway; it had the same measurements as the others. Its alcoves, its projecting walls and its portico had the same measurements as the others. The gateway and its portico had openings all around. It was fifty cubits long and twenty-five cubits wide. Its portico faced the outer court; palm trees decorated the jambs on either side, and eight steps led up to it.
35 Then he brought me to the north gate and measured it. It had the same measurements as the others, as did its alcoves, its projecting walls and its portico, and it had openings all around. It was fifty cubits long and twenty-five cubits wide. Its portico faced the outer court; palm trees decorated the jambs on either side, and eight steps led up to it.
The Rooms for Preparing Sacrifices
38 A room with a doorway was by the portico in each of the inner gateways, where the burnt offerings were washed. In the portico of the gateway were two tables on each side, on which the burnt offerings, sin offerings and guilt offerings were slaughtered. By the outside wall of the portico of the gateway, near the steps at the entrance of the north gateway were two tables, and on the other side of the steps were two tables. So there were four tables on one side of the gateway and four on the other�eight tables in all�on which the sacrifices were slaughtered. There were also four tables of dressed stone for the burnt offerings, each a cubit and a half long, a cubit and a half wide and a cubit high. On them were placed the utensils for slaughtering the burnt offerings and the other sacrifices. And double-pronged hooks, each a handbreadth long, were attached to the wall all around. The tables were for the flesh of the offerings.
The Rooms for the Priests
44 Outside the inner gate, within the inner court, were two rooms, one at the side of the north gate and facing south, and another at the side of the south gate and facing north. He said to me, �The room facing south is for the priests who guard the temple, and the room facing north is for the priests who guard the altar. These are the sons of Zadok, who are the only Levites who may draw near to the LORD to minister before him.�
47 Then he measured the court: It was square�a hundred cubits long and a hundred cubits wide. And the altar was in front of the temple.
The New Temple
48 He brought me to the portico of the temple and measured the jambs of the portico; they were five cubits wide on either side. The width of the entrance was fourteen cubits and its projecting walls were three cubits[u] wide on either side. The portico was twenty cubits wide, and twelve cubits from front to back. It was reached by a flight of stairs, and there were pillars on each side of the jambs
The New Jerusalem in Revelation 21 when compared to what John the Revelator saw of the New Jerusalam which is of God's Kingdom to come, and He and His Son are the spiritual Temples there in the New Jerusalem.
Revelation 21:1. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
9And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass. And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
20. The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst. And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass. And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Dispensationalist Christians: "End Time" Question about Apostacy...
Posted : 1 Feb, 2012 02:39 PM
first off i am not a dispensationalist and its been 6 years since I was taught about the end times. I just remember the general aspect of it. Therefore I cannot expound on it anymore.
