Thread: For My Arminian Sisters and Brothers..........
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For My Arminian Sisters and Brothers..........
Posted : 25 Nov, 2011 09:38 AM
For My Arminian Brothers
This is addressed to brothers and sisters in Christ. I am what many of you know as a �Calvinist.� I don�t care for that term as it implies I have embraced a doctrine of man where the truth is that God�s sovereignty is written all over revelation through creation, the bible and his son Jesus. I prefer to say that I have embraced the doctrines of grace and historic biblical Christianity - especially as understood by the reformers Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli and John Calvin. But I didn�t arrive at this understanding of God�s character and means of salvation at the start of my journey as a believer.
Like many who come to faith in Jesus in the American Evangelical churches that are found across this land, I was someone who responded publicly to an altar call. It was January of the year 2000 and I was a �lapsed Catholic� who had been living like an atheist. The weight of my sin was heavy on my heart and my need for Jesus was quite apparent. Of course, I had spent the previous 6 months in deep study of the bible, reading books like Lee Strobel�s The Case for Christ and other apologetic texts. I had attended my first bible study and experienced how the bible could have very meaningful and relevant lessons for me in spite of my preconceptions of it as a dusty old tome from ancient days.
I have been a church-goer and member of two Southern Baptist Churches for over a decade now. In so many ways, I am still a baby in the faith - I�m so grateful to have men whom I can learn from and serve with so that God�s kingdom might be glorified.
So - where does this �Calvinism� come into play? How could a believer suddenly fall into such a terrible state of believing we are all automatons with no free will? How can you say that God creates people he knows will reject him? Why are you placing this doctrine at the center of your understanding of God? Are you some kind of Pharisee that Theology has become so important to you?
What I will attempt to do next is to give you an understanding of my journey to a deeper appreciation and joy in God and a profound love of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. After that, I will address a few things that I think may challenge you as a Christian to consider your own desire to know and love God better, and how you might approach the doctrines of grace with intellectual and spiritual honesty so that you might make a fair decision about these teachings as they come from the bible itself and not filtered by man�s own influence. I assume your trust in and commitment to the plenary inspiration and infallibility of Holy Scriptures is firmly in place, otherwise, you are not ready for this and your faith will be easily shaken.
After being a believer for nearly 10 years, it came to my attention that there were several sins in my life that I felt terrible about but were still present in me in a way that was deeply concerning. I won�t go into details, but suffice it to say that these sins were like any others in that they were isolating and damaging my relationships. I was convinced that I needed more help from God and from brothers in Christ and so I began finding more ways to connect with other like-minded believers through men�s study groups and so forth. At this time, I began to read my bible more purposefully, to pray more intently. I began reading more about systematic theology and came across more and more people online who were fans of the puritains and of men like George Whitefield and Charles Haddon Spurgeon. I wanted to know more about what made these men so special. They were clearly great preachers and evangelists of their day - so great that people are lauding them to this very day! What makes a preacher�s message to have such longevity? What could possibly do that? I hear messages in church today that are so temporal - I can�t imagine these messages being so vital 150 years from now!
And so, my studies in apologetics led me to enjoy watching debates between James White and many others. My love of Apologetics led me to greatly enjoy Greg Koukl at Stand to Reason and my desire for more knowledge of Church History drew me to RC Sproul. And my desire to learn how to connect with God better in a more personal way led me to John Piper. More and more, I noticed that the theologians I enjoyed most were all Calvinists! But how could that be? I�m no robot. I chose faith in Christ after a protracted intellectual internal battle, didn�t I?
I then began to try to tackle the actual teachings of Calvinism - the TULIP acrostic we�ve all heard of - and figure out why these otherwise brilliant theologians all held to this bizarre system of beliefs.
Friends, let me tell you - it was not an easy thing to do. The doctrines of grace challenged everything I believed about myself. I felt as though I got a small taste of what it might have been like to be Jacob wrestling the angel - to go to the mat with God�s identity and his awesome character is no small thing for any mere man. But I�m glad I did it because the joy I take in Jesus and the esteem in which I hold our mighty saving God is something I wouldn�t trade for anything in this life.
Here are a few things that I learned about myself from the process of coming to terms with the biblical teachings on God�s sovereignty and grace:
1) He who doesn�t recognize the difference between his biblical beliefs and his traditions that affect his reading of the scriptures is a slave to those traditions.
2) If you are truly intrested in truth, you follow the word of God where it takes you without clinging to traditions that are contrary to the scriptures. You let the plain meaning of the Word speak to you and if it is a difficult passage, seek to find someone who has worked on the passage from the original languages and gain a deeper knowledge of hermeneutics so that you are better equipped for the task yourself.
[31] So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, �If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, [32] and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.� (John 8:31-32 ESV [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] )
3) Prayer and contemplation are critical to coming to terms with these difficult teachings but the rewards to your spirit and love for Jesus - and for the lost who need him - will be so great they can never fully be repaid.
4) Be prepared to let the Bible text speak to you and ignore the teaching you have heard from Arminian preachers that is often a serious misrepresentation and malignment of what the doctrines of Grace actually are. I have been shocked to hear Christians - and especially the leadership of Calvary Chapel - saying that Calvinism is �Christianity without Jesus� and all sorts of unfounded accusations. The same men even misquoted scripture in an obvious way to try to further their own agenda. This is poisonous stuff and is intellectually dishonest. Christians committed to knowing God�s truth should know better.
And now, a few words on the contrasts between Arminian and Calvinist views of God, man and salvation:
Arminian View:
Man-centered
Synergistic
Man is fallen in sin and dead in his trespasses but not so dead that he can�t make spiritual decisions
God tries to save as many as he can but is thwarted at nearly every turn by man�s free will which is ultimately sovereign and can defeat God�s desire to save:
The Gospel of Jesus Christ pleads with men to believe in it failing every time a man chooses not to accept it
Jesus died for the sins of all, even those who are in hell now because they didn�t choose him
The person who chooses to believe has been born again (regenerated) but can still backslide and thus must depend upon their own effort to remain in the faith, perhaps asking God for help
Calvinist View:
God-centered
Monergistic
Man is fallen in sin and dead in his trespasses such that without first being given new life by God, he has only objective free will and cannot make spiritual decisions - he is, after all, spiritually DOA.
God saves everyone he wills and is as sovereign in salvation as he is in creation and everything else he does:
The Gospel of Jesus Christ will always succeed in drawing God�s elect to him - God saves perfectly in all three persons.
Jesus died as a propitiatory sacrifice for the sins of God�s elect. None for whom Christ died will not be saved.
The Holy Spirit regenerates the unbeliever - giving him or her a new heart - and it is this sovereign action of God that enables the believer to seek God, to understand and embrace the words of the Gospel of Jesus and to come to saving faith in him.
Saving faith is as much a supernatural and sovereignly given gift from God as spiritual rebirth. Without God�s gift of saving faith, we are not followers of Christ. Because God is perfect and saves perfectly, no one who is saved can fall out of faith in God. A believer will sin, but the new regenerate heart that is a temple of the Holy Spirit will always draw the believer back to repentance. A saved person perseveres in faith until death and is assured by God�s sovereignty that their election and salvation is sure.
Ask yourself these questions as you study your bible:
1) Which understanding of God�s revelation in scripture takes a higher view of God and the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
2) How many things that you were taught by non-Calvinists about what Calvinists believe are actually true and were represented accurately?
3) Which understanding of salvation gives the glory to God and which one gives man room for boasting?
4) Is Calvinism the construct of a few men from the 16th century who didn�t agree with indulgences being offered by the Catholic Church or were they merely the first men in centuries to have the freedom to read and interpret scripture in the original languages and to systematize the teaching of the bible in a way that made it more easily summarized for those who could not read the Greek and Hebrew?
5) Do the ideas of God�s sovereignty in all things, man�s fallenness, salvation by grace through faith and God�s ability to control the hearts of men - his creatures - originate with John Calvin? Or do they have their stamp on the entire bible, including the Old Testament? In studying the lives of men like Abraham and the words of David in the Psalms (14, 51, 53) Jeremiah (31:31) and Ezekiel (36:26), do we see the evidence that supports the nature of �Calvinist Soteriology� as found in the New Testament from the beginning?
6) Does a study of the original languages affirm or contradict the assertion by some that the word �foreknowledge,� when used with God as the subject, ever means that God knows what people will choose in the future? Does the use of the word �know� in the Bible usually mean an intimate and personal kind of knowing (i.e. Adam knew his wife and she bore him a son) or an impersonal and general knowledge of things not yet come to pass?
Key Biblical Passages that Convicted Me of God�s Sovereignty in Salvation:
Exodus 4:21 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Proverbs 16:4 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Daniel 4:35 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Matthew 10:22 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Matthew 11:26 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Matthew 25:34 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
John 6:37-44 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
John 6:63-65 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
John 8:43 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] , 47 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
John 12:39-40 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] , 43 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
John 13:18 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
John 15:16 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
John 17:6-11 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Acts 9:4-6 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] (Did Saul choose to put his faith in Jesus?)
Acts 13:48 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Acts 16:14 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Acts 18:27 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Romans 1:6-7 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Romans 3:10-18 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] , 23-26 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Romans 5:15 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] ,19 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Romans 8:28-39 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Romans 9:11-23 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Romans 11:5-7 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] , 33-36 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
1 Cor 1:26-31 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
1 Cor 2:14 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
1 Cor 3:7 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Galatians 1:15-16 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Galatians 3:8 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Ephesians 1:3-12 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Ephesians 2:1-2 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] , 5 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] , 8-9 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Philippians 2:12-13 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
1 Thess 5:19 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
2 Thess 2:13-14 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
2 Tim 1:8-9 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] , 12 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
2 Tim 2:10 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] , 25-26 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Titus 1:1-3 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Titus 3:5 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Hebrews 7:24-25 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Hebrews 9:15 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] , 28 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Hebrews 10:14 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
James 1:18 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
1 Peter 1:1-5 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] , 15 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
1 Peter 2:8-9 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
2 Peter 1:10 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
1 John 5:1-2 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Jude 1 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] ,4 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Revelation 13:8 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
Revelation 17:8 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] ,14 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
The truth about both Calvism and Arminianism and What God Says In His Holy Word. GOD'W WORD IS NOT A THEOLOGY of MEN...
CALVINISM VS. ARMINIANISM: A Discussion of Doctrine
Larry Taylor
Calvary Chapel Bible College, 1994
INTRODUCTION
God has, in these last days, raised up Calvary Chapel as a ministry of balance. Since its inception under the leadership of Pastor Chuck Smith, Calvary Chapel ministries have sought the Biblical middle ground between the extremes of Pentecostalism versus fundamentalism, emotionalism versus traditionalism, and Calvinism versus Arminianism. With respect to this latter debate, no final solution is possible. Great theological minds have debated the issues of free will versus the sovereignty of God for centuries without ever being able to reconcile the two. Arguing for one side at the expense of the other is foolish because it is by nature not provable, and therefore is an argument which no one can win. Humility demands that we bow in the presence of a God who is beyond our intellectual comprehension and confess the wisdom of Deuteronomy 29:29: "The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever...".
I. WHAT IS CALVINISM?
Historically, the doctrine we call Calvinism arose out of the teaching of the reformer John Calvin, although five point Calvinism as it is espoused by its followers today was not taught by Calvin, but instead implied by those who carried his teachings to what they considered to be their logical conclusions. Calvinism is often called Reformed theology, as distinct from Lutheran or Anabaptist theology, and is founded upon John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion. The Puritans and independent Presbyterians of Great Britain were heavily influenced by Calvin's writings, but some of its greatest followers were Dutch (Bavinck, Kuyper, etc.). Calvinism is the basis for the doctrine of many Baptist, Presbyterian, and Reformed churches. In The Canons of the Synod of Dort in 1619, a response to the teachings of James Arminius, the five points of Calvinism were stated as follows:
1. Total Depravity, the belief that man is dead in trespasses and sins and totally unable to save himself. Many adherents of Calvinism carry this a step further, claiming that man cannot even desire a relationship with God apart from His working in their hearts. In fact, it is claimed that God must regenerate a person before they can even desire to come to Christ.
2. Unconditional election is the belief that in eternity past God chose or elected certain people to obtain salvation. Some Calvinists (although not all) carry this belief further and teach what is referred to as "double election", or "reprobation", the teaching that God, in eternity past, selected some people to go to heaven and others to go to hell, and there is nothing anyone can do to change God's election; i.e., if you are elected for heaven, you'll go to heaven regardless of what you do, and if you're elected for hell, there is no possibility of your ever being saved. John Calvin taught this, but called it a terrible doctrine.
3. Limited atonement is the Calvinist teaching that Jesus did not die for the sins of the entire world, but that He instead only died for those that He elected to go to heaven. The argument is that Christ's work on the Cross must be "efficacious", that is, it must work for all for whom He died, that He could not have shed His blood for those who are lost. Some Calvinists have gone to great lengths to explain away limited atonement, saying, for example, that Jesus died for all, but does not pray for all, or that His death theoretically could save everyone, but is effective only for the elect. The end result is the same in each case - the belief that Jesus only died effectively for some people, not all.
4. Irresistible grace is the doctrine that teaches that God will draw to Himself those whom He elected regardless of their rebellion against Him. It is the belief that man cannot resist the drawing of God to Himself.
5. Perseverance of the saints, or eternal security, is the doctrine that often attracts people to Calvinism because it is the belief that a true born again Christian cannot lose or give up his salvation because salvation is entirely God's work, not man's.
II. WHAT IS ARMINIANISM?
Jacobus (James) Arminius was a Dutch theologian who lived from 1560-1609. Arminius taught that man is not guilty for Adam's sin, but only when he chooses to sin voluntarily. Arminius started out as a strict Calvinist, but later modified his views, views which were expressed in a document called The Remonstrance in 1610. Arminianism is the theological basis for the Methodist, Wesleyan, Nazarene, Pentecostal, Free Will Baptist, Holiness, and many charismatic churches. Arminianism teaches:
1. Election based on knowledge, the belief that God chose those who would be saved in eternity past based on His foreknowledge of those who would respond to and receive the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Arminianism rejects the concept that God elected anyone for hell.
2. Unlimited atonement is the belief that Jesus died on the Cross for all people, that His blood is sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of every man, woman, and child who has ever lived. Thus, all mankind is savable.
3. Natural inability is the teaching that man cannot save Himself, but that the Holy Spirit must effect the new birth in him. Strict Arminians do not believe that man is totally depraved and condemned as a result of Adam's sin.
4. Prevenient grace is the Arminian belief that the prepatory work of the Holy Spirit enables the believer to respond to the Gospel and to cooperate with God in the working out of that person's salvation.
5. Conditional perseverance is the belief that man can choose to reject God, and therefore lose his salvation, even after he has been born again. Rather than the "once saved always saved" doctrine of the Calvinists, the Arminian believes that you must abide in Christ to be saved, and that you can choose to walk away from God. Arminius himself, and his early followers, stated that they were unsure of this doctrine and that it required further Biblical study. Later Arminians, however, accepted it.
III. AN EVALUATION OF THE DOCTRINES
At the heart of the controversy between Calvinism and Arminianism is the emphasis on the sovereignty of God by the Calvinists and on the free will of man, or human responsibility, by the Arminians. Arminian theology teaches that man has free will and that God will never interrupt or take that free will away, that God has obligated Himself to respect the free moral agency and capacity of free choice with which He created us.
Calvinism, on the other hand, emphasizes that God is in total control of everything, and that nothing can happen that He does not plan and direct, including man's salvation. Both doctrinal positions are logical, both have Scriptures to back up each of their five points, and both are, in my opinion, partially right and partially wrong.
As Philip Schaff put it in his History of the Christian Church, "Calvinism emphasizes divine sovereignty and free grace; Arminianism emphasizes human responsibility. The one restricts the saving grace to the elect; the other extends it to all men on the condition of faith. Both are right in what they assert; both are wrong in what they deny. If one important truth is pressed to the exclusion of another truth of equal importance, it becomes an error, and loses its hold upon the conscience.
The Bible gives us a theology which is more human than Calvinism and more divine than Arminianism, and more Christian than either of them. " (New York, Charles Scribner's & Son, 1910, VIII 815 f). Certainly, the Bible does teach that God is sovereign (Psalm 135:6; Daniel 4:35, Ephesians 1:11), and that believers are predestined and elected by God (Romans 8) to spend eternity with Him. Nowhere, however, does the Bible ever associate election with damnation. Conversely, the Scriptures teach that God elects for salvation, but that unbelievers are in hell by their own choice. Every passage of the Bible that deals with election deals with it in the context of salvation, not damnation. No one is elect for hell. The only support for such a view (which John Calvin did teach) is human logic, not Biblical revelation.
The idea of total depravity is consistent with Scripture (Ephesians 2:1, Romans 3:11), but the doctrine of limited atonement, that Jesus did not die for the sins of the whole world, is clearly anti-Biblical (John 3:16, I Timothy 2:6, II Peter 2: 1, I John 2:2). The Bible teaches that Jesus died for everyone's sins and that everyone is able to be saved if they will repent and turn to Christ. Limited atonement is a non-Biblical doctrine. (John 3:16,17; Romans 5:8, 18; II Corinthians 5:14,15; 1 Timothy 2:4; 4:10; Hebrews 2:9; 10:29; II Peter 2:1; I John 2:2; 4:14.)
Irresistible grace is taught by some, who do not understand the concept, to mean that God drags people to Himself contrary to their wills. Actually, the Biblical view, and the view of most Calvinists, is the belief that God works on our wills so as to make us willing to surrender to Him. In other words, He makes us willing to come to Christ for salvation.
And, many Scriptures teach that a true believer is safe and secure in Christ, that salvation doesn't depend on our ability to keep ourselves, but on God's ability to keep us. (I John 5:11-13; John 10:28; Romans 5:1 and 8: 1). The only condition for salvation is faith in Christ (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Romans 10:9). On the other hand, the Bible teaches us that we must abide in Christ (John 15; Luke 13:14; Colossians 1:29; II Timothy 2:5; Hebrews 6:4-6; I Peter 1:10) to persevere in salvation.
IV. THE FRUIT OF ARMINIANISM
In its strictest form, Arminianism has taught that man is responsible for saving himself via his own good works of devotion. Although not the view of Arminius, or of Wesley, the teaching from some pulpits puts the emphasis on man's efforts to the expense of God's grace. Thus, in its extreme form, Arminianism leads to the belief that if a believer sins, he has lost his salvation, and must be born again over and over again. Hence, the emphasis in some churches of coming to the altar at each meeting to repent, rededicate, and renew the salvation which was invariably lost in the course of daily life. Adherents of this position have no assurance of salvation, no rest in Christ, and no spiritual peace.
Or, on the other hand, if they can convince themselves that they've reached a state of sinless perfection (which is clearly contrary to I John 1), then believers become proud and super-spiritual, seeing themselves as having reached a higher spiritual plane than regular Christians. A works equals righteousness theology leads either to terror and fear or to pride and haughtiness.
Innumerable believers have lived in needless fear because they wondered time and time again whether or not they were truly saved, thinking that each time they sinned, each time they discovered anything internal unlike Christ, indeed, anytime they felt emotionally separated from God, that they were no longer His children. Surely it is not the will of God for His children to live in such bondage. The fact is that we can know for certain that we are His children, we can know for certain that our sins are forgiven, that we will spend eternity in heaven with the Lord.
The Lord does not want His children to doubt His love, nor does He want them to believe that they must, through their own efforts and good works, gain or maintain their salvation. Our position with God is determined by faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ for us on the Cross. We can rest in His love and grace, knowing that He who began a good work in us will complete it. We need not fear the one who said He would never leave us or forsake us, who promised to present those who believe in Christ faultless before His presence, who said that He would be with us until the end of the age.
Similarly, it is not the will of God for His children to feel prideful, for them to take credit for the salvation that is entirely His work, for them to falsely believe that they are sinlessly perfect, or better than other believers in any way. Arminianism has historically lead to the holiness movements which teach sinless perfection, and foster pride in some, while condemning and terrifying the more timid.
V. THE FRUIT OF CALVINISM
Five point Calvinists, like full strict Arminians, typically bear fruit contrary to the teaching of God's Word. Specifically, it is typical of five point Calvinists to ignore or at times even oppose evangelism. After all, if all of humanity is either predestined to hell or to heaven, and there is nothing anyone can do to switch from one group to the other regardless of their will, then why evangelize? The elect will be saved whether they like it or not, and the non-elect will be doomed whether they want to or not. Historically, some hyper-Calvinists have even gone so far as to object to putting a Gospel verse on a sign, lest one of the non-elect read it and believe, thus thwarting God's plan. Even today, Calvinists can be found fighting against evangelistic crusades and missions.
Secondly, strict Calvinism seems to invariably lead to division, strife and argument.
Many Calvinists seem to spend more time arguing with fellow Christians about doctrine than loving and caring for the lost and hurting in the world. They are seeking, it seems, to convert the converted, and have neglected the call of God to missions, evangelism, and practical service. Indeed, Calvinism seems to attract those of an argumentative nature who are often unreachable, legalistic, and dogmatic.
Five point Calvinists tend to speak of love and grace frequently, but display very little of either. Rather than loving and serving the lost and hurting, they are engaged in continual arguing, often dividing the Body of Christ in a legalistic and hurtful manner. To many of them, being what they consider to be right is more important than doing what Jesus commanded, viz., evangelizing the lost and ministering to those in need.
I have not infrequently seen rank Calvinists who assert that because God chose some for heaven and others for hell, we cannot know the destiny of babies who die. If they were elect, they are in heaven, if not, hell. Such a belief makes God a monster who eternally tortures innocent children, it removes the hope of consolation from the Gospel, it limits the atoning work of Christ, it resists evangelism, it stirs up argumentation and division, and it promotes a small, angry, judgmental God rather than the large hearted God of the Bible.
VI. THE BIBLICAL BALANCE
Like a river that flows between two banks, so the truth of God's Word flows between the extremes of Calvinism and Arminianism. As it has been pointed out, both are true and both are false. Election and predestination are Biblical doctrines. God knows everything and therefore He cannot learn anything or be surprised by anything. Thus, He knows, and has known from eternity past, who will exercise their free will to accept Him and who will reject Him. The former are the elect, the latter are non-elect. As D.L. Moody once said, the "whosoever wills are the elect, and the whosoever wont's are the non-elect". Every person who is not saved will have only himself to blame; God will not send anyone to hell, but many people will choose to go there by exercising their free will to reject Christ.
On the other hand, no one who is saved will be able to take any of the credit. Our salvation, from start to finish, is 100% God's work, and is based entirely on the finished work of the Cross. We were dead in trespasses and sins, destined for hell, when God in His grace, drew us to Himself, convinced us of our sin and our need for a Savior, and gave us the authority to call Jesus Lord. Is this grace, this wooing, irresistible? No, we have free will and we can resist, even to the damnation of our souls, but God does everything short of making us puppets to draw us into His family.
Moreover the concept of a limited atonement, that Jesus only died for the elect, and not for the sins of all people, is clearly unbiblical. The Bible is crystal clear that Jesus' death on the cross was for all people, and that there is sufficient power in His blood to cleanse away every sin. "Whosoever will may come" is meaningless if man has no free will and no ability to choose God.
The question of whether or not a Christian can lose or walk away from salvation (point 5 in both doctrinal systems) is academic. When a person who claims to be a Christian and shows some fruit to that effect turns his back on God and lives the life of a pagan, the Arminian says he was saved and is now not saved, while the Calvinist says that he was either never really saved to start with, or that he is severely backslidden, but still within grace. Ultimately, no one, not even the sinning person, knows the truth only God does. In a backslidden or sin-filled state, there is no assurance of salvation, no resting in Jesus, no peace of God in the heart. So the sinning person, whether he is actually a Christian or just thinks he might be, needs to repent and get right with God. The true believer in Christ never has to doubt his salvation. He can rest in the perfect assurance that God saved him and will keep him, and nothing will ever separate him from God's love in time or eternity. We are secure in Christ, kept by the power of His loving grace, forever safe in Jesus.
It is imperative to remember that both Calvinism and Arminianism are systems of theology devised by godly, devout, Bible-believing men in the 1600's. Both systems are based on the Word of God, and both contain essential elements of truth, but neither can be substituted for reading and believing the Word of God. The Apostolic church knew nothing of either system, they simply believed what God had revealed. The difficulty arises when it seems that some of what God has revealed contradicts something else He revealed. How can man be absolutely free and God absolutely sovereign and directive simultaneously? How can salvation be entirely God's work, yet require the cooperation of mere men simultaneously? These are unanswerable questions ultimately.
The Bible teaches both the sovereignty of God and the free will of man. It teaches what appears to be unconditional perseverance in some places and conditional perseverance in others. These things can never be intellectually reconciled because God is simply too big for us to understand. Both systems of theology emphasize one set of Scriptures while either ignoring or drastically twisting and explaining away others.
We are not called to understand God, only to believe Him. I am a free moral agent, responsible for my own sin, hopelessly lost. Jesus not only died for me, He drew me to Himself with bands of lovingkindness and grace, convicted me of my sin, gave me the power to call Him Lord, and will one day present me faultless before His presence with great joy. I am, by His grace, His child. And yet, I am still free to walk with Him or not to walk with Him. And what applies to me, applies to every human being. Jesus died for all of us and desires fellowship with all of us. Whosoever will may come and receive of His forgiveness and grace and salvation. Innocent babies who die are safe in heaven.
God's election excludes no one; Jesus' atonement includes everyone. As has been pointed out, we are looking at two sides of the same coin. Election is God's side, free will is our side. Someone once said that as we enter life, we see emblazoned over the gateway the words "Whosoever will may come"; then as we enter and look back at the backside of the same gateway, we see inscribed what the words "Elect from the foundation of the earth". Election is God's side of the coin we call salvation, human responsibility is our side.
Rather than interpreting the Bible based on any theological or philosophical structure, it behooves us to simply read and believe the Word of God. As we teach the Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation, verse by verse, in context, we will at times sound like staunch Calvinists, preaching those passages which emphasize God's sovereignty, while at other times we will seem like devout Arminians, as we preach those passages which emphasize man's responsibility.
The key to successful ministry is balance - to stay focused on the Word of God, and not become distracted by the doctrines of men.
Throughout the history of the Calvary Chapel movement, Pastor Chuck Smith, and those that God has raised up around him in the ministry have maintained a Biblical balance, that makes them neither Calvinists nor Arminians, but simply Bible believing brothers and sisters who love Jesus, desire to know Him intimately, long to worship Him in Spirit and in truth, and who yearn to see a lost, broken, hurting, bleeding, dying world come to know the unlimited capacities of His love and grace.
I think the main problem with Calvinism can be put in very simple short words rather than a long paper; it does no justice to the character of Christ as revealed in the Gospels. We have a Christ showing compassion with the lost and bewildered people, whereas the calvinist christ picks his elect and scoffs at the rest. Also it reads to much into Jesus' exclusive words and attitude to the twelve assuming that the twelve represent the elect in general.
I agree with bl@#$%%^ I cant remember..:ROFL: but you know who you are@ ABSOLUTLY calvinisim is completly opposit from Jesus Chrachter and personality!
I have never read one verse that even came close to even impling that Jesus or God the Father were snobs! Just throwing htere wait around!
Or just semding people to hell just cause he can!
Really? Does that really sound like him ? Not to me it doesnt!
Really? Does that really sound like him ? Not to me it doesnt!
James replies:
Tell me if the following is true or not Elisha.......
1. God is perfectly Holy and JUST, and He sends people to Hell because they have sinned against Him.
2. ALL human beings are GUILTY before God, and if God would have decided to save not one of us, and sent us ALL to Hell, then God would STILL HAVE BEEN PERFECTLY JUST.
Arguing for one side at the expense of the other is foolish because it is by nature not provable, and therefore is an argument which no one can win.
James replies:
This is a LIE. The churches EXAMINED the claims of the Arminians at a huge church council and after examining each of the five points the Arminians brought, declared them to be HERESY. It was called "the Remonstrance" Look it up!
And today is no different. Literally HUNDREDS of verses of Scriptures CLEARLY support the doctrines of grace and all the Arminians have is the "world" and "all" verses that they misinterpret.
Taylor said:
Historically, the doctrine we call Calvinism arose out of the teaching of the reformer John Calvin, although five point Calvinism as it is espoused by its followers today was not taught by Calvin, but instead implied by those who carried his teachings to what they considered to be their logical conclusions. Calvinism is often called Reformed theology,
James replies:
This is also wrong. The five points of doctrine Nicknamed Calvinism can be found all throughout church history!
And this is why this guy is not to be trusted. Taylor can't even get a SIMPLE thing right like the difference between Reformed theology, which covers the ENTIRE Bible, and Calvinism which is merely five points of doctrine.
Taylor said:
The Bible teaches that Jesus died for everyone's sins
James replies:
Really? My Bible says that Jesus SAID He died "for the sheep" Maybe we can reach Mr. Taylor and ask
him where it says that Jesus died for the sheep and the goats???
This guy is wrong all throughout this article!
Taylor said:
it is typical of five point Calvinists to ignore or at times even oppose evangelism.
James replies:
He is a LIAR! And the only way he can get away with telling lies like this is because so many Christians are ignorant of church history. Spurgeon? Calvin? Whitefield?, Edwards? some of the most heroic missionaries in the history of the church since the Reformation were Calvinists. This guy is flat out lying.
Taylor said:
Election and predestination are Biblical doctrines. God knows everything and therefore He cannot learn anything or be surprised by anything. Thus, He knows, and has known from eternity past, who will exercise their free will to accept Him and who will reject Him.
James replies:
The Bible contradicts what Taylor says here. The Bible PLAINLY says that God CHOSE NOT BECAUSE of anything any of us would do, but ONLY SO THAT HIS CHOICE MIGHT STAND. (See Romans 9 and John 6)
Taylor said:
God's election excludes no one; Jesus' atonement includes everyone.
James replies:
So, if Jesus paid for everyone's sins, then NO ONE will be going to Hell.....!!!
And since God elected everyone then all those statements in my Bible where Jesus says,
"Many are called but few are chosen", and "No one can come to me unless the Father draws them.."
Are not true according to Taylor!
And just so everyone knows, including ET who is Arminian, Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel NEVER debates Arminians, but he used to Debate Calvinists all the time. You can find him doing this on YouTube.
I think the main problem with Calvinism can be put in very simple short words rather than a long paper; it does no justice to the character of Christ as revealed in the Gospels. We have a Christ showing compassion with the lost and bewildered people,
James replies:
Jesus came to DIE for the ones that God the Father had given Him, so I think dying for others is PROOF of the ultimate compassion. I think what we have in modern times in America is that we have turned God into Santa Claus. God is love, love, love with sugar on top. God's mercy is so great BECAUSE God is perfectly just.
Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Jesus SAID he died for a particular group of people, so WHY don't we take Him at His word????
Joh 10:3-4 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice....Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep....Joh 10:14-15 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Bierregard said:
whereas the calvinist christ picks his elect and scoffs at the rest. Also it reads to much into Jesus' exclusive words and attitude to the twelve assuming that the twelve represent the elect in general.
James replies:
Really?
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Jesus does not scoff at the rest, He WARNS THEM.
Mat 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
I realize that if you have been going to a church and listening to a preacher who just preaches that God is like Santa, then I understand this is hard for you.
But, we MUST present God has He is in SCRIPTURE and includes words and ideas that will NOT fit nicely in a hallmark card.
So James, are you arguing what Taylor has written, OR are you bitterly arguing what God says in His word, over what you have been taught in spiritually misinterpretating God's word on the side of Calvin's teaching which are in error?
Also WHO TOLD YOU I AM ARMINAIN?... You know more about me than I know about me. I don't listen to either Calvin or Arminisus... my sole belief is in what God says in His Holy Word, not man's doctrines or theology!
Nor I don't get upset as you do when someone speaks about Calvin whcih is a sign of cult behavior defending a man and his doctrine and theology, more than you defend God's Word and what He has to say, and speaks about His Son Jesus Christ, and what He did on the xross for the SIN OF EVERYONE WHO COMES TO BELIEVE AND RECEIVE THIS GOSPEL CALLED GRACE.
Maybe you can explain this passage, because You are in spiritual error to believe and think that Jesus Christ did not die for the sins of the world. You do not know that ONLY those who have faith to believe are the onse who come to be called the elect, or chosen, and NO ONE IS AN ELECT UNLESS HE/SHE REPENTS OF THEIR SINS AND BELIEVE IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. EVERY PERSON ON EARTH HAS AN OPPORTUNITY OT BECOME AN ELECT OF HE/SHE REPENTS OF THEIR SINS AND CHOOSE JESUS CHRIST AS THEIR PERSONAL LORD AND SAVIOR FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF THEIR SINS!
You are also in spiritual error when you dispute what Taylor said that God knowing everything and knows those who are His: II Timothy 2:19: Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "THE LORD KNOWS THOSE WHO ARE HIS, and "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."
I would that you should explain these passages and answer the questions as you spirituallly understand them wihtout your rambling.Just answer them direct and to the point. Thanks
John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, �Look, the Lamb of God, WHO TAKES AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD!!!...
QUESTIONS:
1. Who is John speaking about calling the Lamb of God?
2. What SINS OF WHAT WORLD DOES THE LAMB TAKE AWAY?
And based on what John say in the above passage does it contradict what Jesus says in this passage?
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God�s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.(NIV)
QUESTIONS:
1. In John verse 16, what world is He speak about?; Who are the WHOSOEVERS?
3. In verse 17. What WORLD did God send His Son into, to SAVE THE WORLD?
4. Verse 18. Who are the WHOEVER THAT BELIVE; Aand the WHOEVER WHO DO NOT BELIVE THAT ARE CONDEMNED?
5. Verse 19. What WORLD did the light shine into; and who are the PEOPLE who loved darkness?
Romans 5:6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
QUESTIONS:
1. Who are the WE in Romans 6; who are the UNGODLY,
2. Who are the SINNERS Chirst died for in verse 8?
As ETcallhome points out, calvinism makes no sense of verses like John 3:16 and 2 Peter 3:9, verses that Christians in general cherish.
Who are the other sheep of John 10:16?
You quote Acts 13:48. What does 1 Peter 2:12 tell you? How do you know we should add "for eternity" and not just as well "for the present" to the sentence? Make no judgement ahead of time 1 Cor 4:15.
There are many verses calvinism must struggle with and we should reflect upon Scripture, such as what the character of Jesus tells us.
