God.. my merciful Father created some men specificaly to burn?? HOW SAD!
Also it says that the lake of fire was created for the devil.
But if what you say is true then that means it was created for some men too.
my understanding was that God did not create hell for any of man kind, its just inncedentel that they go there becasue they either 1 loved not the truth 2 didnt endure till the end or 3 they rejected salvation and wallerd in there own flesh and were turned over to a repribate mind..
ORRRRRR,, are you telling me that God just created some people to burn in hell for all eternity, just for no reason at all. Theey were condemed from the time of the creation right?
I mean if the elect was the elct and chosen from the foundations of the earth
that means the non elect were also
you must have a theroy on this, do you think that becasue of the way things are set up with procreation and so on and so forth that some people were just incedentil to the elect living they werent the elect but they were nessacary for the elct to be born IE: fathers mothers and so on?? please elaborate
The BIG question is whether or not you will accept it.
I know from experience that most Christians never read this, and that about 20% of the ones who do, reject it.
I truly HOPE you will accept what the Bible says about your question.
This is Romans chapter 9:8-26
8This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. 9For this is what the promise said: "About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son." 10And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad�in order that God�s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls� 12she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
14What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God�s part? By no means! 15For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory� 24even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25As indeed he says in Hosea,
"Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,'
and her who was not beloved I will call 'beloved.'"
26 "And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,'
there they will be called 'sons of the living God.'"
Notice in verse 14 the Apostle KNOWS that SOME CHRISTIANS will not like this and think that this makes God unjust.
I kind of undersatnd, I really am not that smart, but doesnt that scripture mean the part about issac and ishmeal isnt that refering to being born of the flesh and born of the spirit?
I agree God causes us to do what we do he draws us and teaches us to be what we are, but I still think that salvation is availble to all, but he knows some will not accept yes he hardens hearts its all for his glory, but its there for everyone and if someone doesnt accept its not Gods fault that is my problem with it, God doesnt condem people they have condemd themselfs. I just cant blame God if someone spends eternity in hell, thats because the rejected gods giftt of salvation
It is not about being smart. I would hope you will read Romans 9 at home in your bible. I think reading it in a couple of different translations might help also.
Elisha said:
but doesnt that scripture mean the part about issac and ishmeal isnt that refering to being born of the flesh and born of the spirit?
James replies:
No, it is about God choosing to save one and not the other.
This is God telling that his choosing had NOTHING to do with anything someone might do in the future. God chose to show mercy to one and justice to the other BEFORE they were born and not because of anything either one of them had done.
Elisha continues:
I agree God causes us to do what we do he draws us and teaches us to be what we are, but I still think that salvation is availble to all, but he knows some will not accept.
James replies:
Salvation IS "available to all" The PROBLEM is that NO ONE WANTS IT. When Adam and Eve sinned against God, they died spiritually that very day. since then, EVERYONE has been born with a will enslaved to sin.
Jesus SAID This more than once! Paul said "NO ONE seeks for God".
Since ALL mankind is totally spiritually DEAD, and no one will EVER repent and trust in Jesus, God has to send His Holy Spirit to a person, and the Holy Spirit makes that person come alive spiritually.
Elisha continues:
yes he hardens hearts its all for his glory, but its there for everyone and if someone doesnt accept its not Gods fault that is my problem with it, God doesnt condem people they have condemd themselfs. I just cant blame God if someone spends eternity in hell, thats because the rejected gods giftt of salvation
James replies:
That is right elisha, people go to Hell, because they CHOOSE to, and people accept Jesus, because GOD HAS SHOWN THEM MERCY AND MADE THEM COME ALIVE SPIRITUALLY.
Eze 36:26-27 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Act 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
John 6:63-65 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64But there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) 65And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."
James, there are so many things you say that I agree with, sometimes you really agrivate me.. But I do think whether your right or i am right or we are both wrong that you have atrue desire to please God, I get frustrated and say things maybe I shouldnt say, but truly isnt that what really matters? as long as someone really desires to please God whats it matter if I think I had a choice as long as I know now that I dont because I belong to him, I do think there are false doctrines and I guess way back you posted something that made me think you were really way off cause I guess I misunderstood when you said something about the diety of Christ and the virgin birth, anyway there are false doctrines maybe you are decieved I dont really know but I do think you love the Lord and thats what counts God has not made it so diffiucult to be saved is easy and we are making it seem harder than it is with the hair splitting
