Author	Thread: sovereign grace vs free-will
dljrn04 View Profile History	sovereign grace vs free-will Posted : 4 Aug, 2011 05:21 PM I suppose there are some persons whose minds naturally incline towards the doctrine of free-will. I can only say that mine inclines as naturally towards the doctrines of sovereign grace. Sometimes, when I see some of the worst characters in the street, I feel as if my heart must burst forth in tears of gratitude that God has never let me act as they have done! I have thought, if God had left me alone, and had not touched me by His grace, what a great sinner I should have been! I should have run to the utmost lengths of sin, dived into the very depths of evil, nor should I have stopped at any vice or folly, if God had not restrained me. I feel that I should have been a very king of sinners, if God had let me alone. I cannot understand the reason why I am saved, except upon the ground that God would have it so. I cannot, if I look ever so earnestly, discover any kind of reason in myself why I should be a partaker of Divine grace. If I am not at this moment without Christ, it is only because Christ Jesus would have His will with me, and that will was that I should be with Him where He is, and should share His glory. I can put the crown nowhere but upon the head of Him whose mighty grace has saved me from going down into the pit. Looking back on my past life, I can see that the dawning of it all was of God; of God effectively. I took no torch with which to light the sun, but the sun enlightened me. I did not commence my spiritual life�no, I rather kicked, and struggled against the things of the Spirit: when He drew me, for a time I did not run after Him: there was a natural hatred in my soul of everything holy and good. Wooings were lost upon me�warnings were cast to the wind�thunders were despised; and as for the whispers of His love, they were rejected as being less than nothing and vanity. But, sure I am, I can say now, speaking on behalf of myself, "He only is my salvation." It was He who turned my heart, and brought me down on my knees before Him. I can in very deed, say with Doddridge and Toplady� "Grace taught my soul to pray, And made my eyes o'erflow;" and coming to this moment, I can add� "'Tis grace has kept me to this day, And will not let me go." C. H. Spurgeon Post Reply
shalom716 View Profile History	sovereign grace vs free-will Posted : 4 Aug, 2011 06:05 PM I think we have free will until we are saved by his grace, then we belong to G-d and our life is no longer our own. Post Reply
View Profile History	sovereign grace vs free-will Posted : 4 Aug, 2011 06:47 PM And then you still have free will never changes Post Reply
View Profile History	sovereign grace vs free-will Posted : 4 Aug, 2011 06:50 PM I Believe we will always have Free Will. God does not turn us into �Automatons��Robots without a Will of Our Own. How can that Please Him? If we are Drugged with Grace and therefore Incapable of Sinning how can that Please God? How does that Glorify God? But rather in the Face of Temptation and our Sinful Nature we�with God�s Help (through His GRACE) Resist Temptation and WILLFULLY Obey God and WILLFULLY Show Him our LOVE�then do we Glorify God and Please Him. My Brothers and Sisters�if you have to use Drugs or some form of �Mind Control� to make your children Love you and Obey you�what good is it? But, if they do so WILLINGLY�of their own Free Will�then it is to your Glory! Yes�we need God�s Graces! We are Toast without it! But God NEVER�EVER takes away Our Free Will. Post Reply
View Profile History	sovereign grace vs free-will Posted : 4 Aug, 2011 07:36 PM I wonder if this is what 'FREE WILL' looks like. Act 9:3 But in the going it happened! He drew near to Damascus, and suddenly a light from the heaven shone around him. Act 9:4 And falling on the earth he heard a voice saying to him, Saul, Saul! Why do you persecute Me? Act 9:5 And he said, Sir, who are You? And the Lord said, I am Jesus, whom you persecute; it is hard for you to kick against the goads. Act 9:6 Both trembling and being astonished he said, Lord, what do You desire me to do? And the Lord said to him, Rise up and go into the city, and it will be told you what you must do. Act 9:15 And the Lord said to him, Go, for this one is a chosen vessel to Me, to bear My name before nations and kings and the sons of Israel. Act 9:16 For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of My name. John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Everyone practicing sin is a slave of sin. John 8:35 But the slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains to the age. John 8:36 Therefore, if the Son sets you free, you are free indeed. Shalom Post Reply
View Profile History	sovereign grace vs free-will Posted : 4 Aug, 2011 08:10 PM GEORGE WITH SAUL THAT WAS THE MANIFEST PRESENSE OF GOD NOBODY FORCED NOTHING ON SAUL Post Reply
View Profile History	sovereign grace vs free-will Posted : 4 Aug, 2011 08:32 PM There are two reasons that modern American Christians believe in free-will. 1. They are ignorant of what the bible teaches about fallen mankind. 2. They REJECT what the Bible says about fallen mankind. ALL of mankind died spiritually the very day Adam and Eve ate of the fruit. Since then, all human beings are born with a will that is enslaved to sin. Jesus said this point blank, and Christians are ignorant of it, or reject it. There are over 50 verses of Scripture that say this, and yet look at the typical responses we get on this. As if they have not read Genesis, or John 6 or Romans 9. It is like they hear Scripture and then contradict it by claiming they had some goodness in them and free will, and that why they chose Jesus......... Pro 20:9 Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin? "Oh I did! with my great free will!!" Ecc 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not. "Oh wait! I did! I accepted Jesus with my free will!!" Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. "No Jesus you are wrong! I CAN with my free will!" Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. "No Jesus, I Can! I have my free will!" Rom 3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. "No wait, I Understood, with my free will, and then I seeked after God with my free will!" Good grief.......They contradict Scripture all day long, just so they can pretend they saved themselves. HUMBLE yourselves free willers. You were LOST, and GOD saved you. In Christ, James Post Reply
View Profile History	sovereign grace vs free-will Posted : 4 Aug, 2011 09:11 PM James why do you always quote these scriptures out of context and why is that no matter how many times you have been shown the truth you always deny it. Post Reply
View Profile History	sovereign grace vs free-will Posted : 4 Aug, 2011 09:36 PM PhillipJohn, YOU are of course one of those people who deny point blank statements by Jesus. In John 6 Jesus says TWICE..."No man can come to me unless..." And you turn right around and say "No anyone can come". SHOW ME how any verse I offered is out of context. You accuse me of it, and then you don't give any examples of it. I just gave an example where YOU contradict Scripture. Jesus says in John 6 that NO ONE CAN come to Him unless the father draws them, and YOU say that anyone can come! I can give examples of you contradicting the bible over and over! You offer nothing but accusations, with no evidence. In Christ, James Post Reply
View Profile History	sovereign grace vs free-will Posted : 4 Aug, 2011 11:13 PM James I will gladly rightly divide all those scriptures you manipulate, and quote out of context, you forgot to acknowledge the bible example I posted for you. Jesus breathed it as he did all scripture. Don't forget Enoch!! Actually the bible records many people doing exactly what you said they cannot do. Post Reply