Author Thread: There is ZERO blind faith in Christianity........
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There is ZERO blind faith in Christianity........
Posted : 29 Jul, 2011 03:30 PM

But I thought this was all 'Blind Faith' kinda stuff...

(or at least the politically correct 'intellectually challenged' kinda

stuff...)

Au Contraire--





The Judeo-Christian faith is surprisingly ruthless in its insistence

on proof (broadly considered), evidence, truth, examination, 'cordial

skepticism'...and correspondingly disdainful of those who believe

nonsense.





Consider briefly the following passages in the Bible:



Gen 15 - When Abraham asked God "how will I KNOW that this future

will happen?", God did not rebuke him, but made a legal covenant with him.





Exodus 33 - Moses argued with God that God should not destroy

Israel, so that there would be evidence of His work in history





Number 16 - Moses argued with the Israelites over the leadership

issue, and appealed to evidence.





Deut 18 - God is VERY explicit-if a prophet EVER misses a

prediction, this proves he is not a prophet of YHWH. The test was

evidential--pure and simple.





Deut 29 - Moses appeals to their MEMORIES as a basis for

decision...historical events .





Joshua 3 - Joshua sets up, in advance, a criterion for knowing

that YHWH was among them--a future, visible, abnormal event in

Israel's history.





2 Sam 1 - David wanted factual support for the report that Saul

was dead.





Lam 3 - we are to EXAMINE our lifestyles - looking for evidence

that reveals our true character and orientation to ultimate issues





I Cor 11 - we are to examine our hearts and conduct--testing them

against standards





2 Cor 13 - we are to examine our life vis-a-vis the content of the

worldview





Judges 6 - Gideon and the 'fleece test' - and yet God 'humored'

his weakness and provided the evidence he needed





Isaiah 7 - King AHAZ was rebuked by the prophet for NOT asking God

for evidence!





Dan 1 - Daniel in a foreign situation, didn't appeal with a simple

'trust us'--he said 'test us'...and depended upon God for concrete,

visible results.





Mal 3 - God challenges Israel to test His faithfulness, He invites

them to test His commitment to His promises...and in the area of finances!





Rom 12 - Paul challenges his readers to continually expand their

thinking--SO THAT they can examine and prove what God's will for their

direction is...an active searching and examination of all the data.





2 Cor 8 - Paul wanted to TEST the sincerity of their love -- he

was looking for concrete evidence that would reveal their inner selves.





Gal. 6:4 "Each one should TEST his own actions. Then he can take

appropriate pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else"





Is 43 - The prophet draws a picture of a courtroom scene. The

prophets are to bring forth their evidence that they are indeed

speakers of truth. The only admissible evidence is a proven

track-record of future prediction!





Ezek. 13:2 "Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel

who are now prophesying. Say to those who prophesy out of their own

imagination: 'Hear the word of the LORD!'" --Accuracy and legitimacy

is of critical moment! John 2 - the Jews of the day where always

demanding proof. Jesus appealed to his coming resurrection as the

capstone proof of his deity.





Act 17 - Paul referred to the historical resurrection as "God's

proof" that people will have to answer for their innermost attitudes

toward God.





2 Cor 13 - the Corinthians demanded proof of Paul's authority. He

submitted historical evidence and lifestyle as data.





Luke 1 - Luke investigated the sources and wrote the account for

his royal reader, SO THAT he could know for CERTAIN.









Or consider the following actions on the part of Jesus...



He is constantly doing overt miracles and "out-loud" prayers, for

His followers' benefit--so they might see the evidence, understand

what's going on, and believe.





He doesn't scorn the 'doubting Thomas' but provides his

nail-scarred hands and open side-wound as evidence for him (Jn 20)





He constantly refers people back to the data of the OT--as a means

to judge His claims and teachings.









Or consider the NT leaders, with their emphasis on the factuality of

the Christian events (and their preference for the 'critical thinkers')...



Luke who praised the careful and thorough Bereans in Acts 17:11

"Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians,

for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the

Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true."





Paul, who challenges us in I Thess 5.21: " Test everything. Hold

on to the good."





And appeals to the 'openness' of the historical facts of early

Christianity in his public trial: "The king is familiar with these

things, and I can speak freely to him. I am convinced that none of

this has escaped his notice, because it was not done in a corner."

(Act 26:26)





And appeals to natural phenomena as evidence of a good God (Acts

14, 17).





Peter, who tries to 'force his readers back into the bedrock of

data' in 2Pet. 1:16: We did not follow cleverly invented stories when

we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but

we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.



Hold it a Minute!





I thought 'Testing the Lord' was VERY bad, even Fatal! (as in I Cor 10)...



...Good question (shows you're thinking, eh?)



If you compare the "DON'T test" passages with the "DO test" passages,

you can see the difference in the contexts.





The "DON'T test" passages are those in which the people are NOT

seeking evidence/proof IN ORDER TO learn truth, grow, or develop their

worldview, but rather are trying to manipulate God into satisfying

illicit desires, or into satisfying licit needs, in destructive ways.

For example, in Exodus 17, the recepients of an earlier

water-providing miracle are now DEMANDING water in a combative manner!

(See Ps 78 and 106 for a later historical account of this.)





The 'DO test' passages are those in which the people are enjoined to

take a small step of commitment, in EXPECTATION of success (sounds a

little like giving someone the benefit of the doubt, doesn't it?). The

negativism and close-mindedness of the former situation is not present

in the later. The later applies to people who are OPEN to learning,

not just trying to engineer the situation for their practical gain.



As a matter of fact, this 'openness to learning' and 'positive

expectation of good' is rather basic to ALL types of personal

discovery situations. We ourselves tend not to 'participate' in these

kinds of situations, if we feel we are being 'interrogated' in an

abusive manner.

So...keep an honest and respectful and patient and good-natured

heart...and GO FOR IT! The God of Truth seems to delight in responding

to such attitudes and approaches (don't we all?).

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There is ZERO blind faith in Christianity........
Posted : 29 Jul, 2011 03:51 PM

Huh?

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shalom716

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There is ZERO blind faith in Christianity........
Posted : 29 Jul, 2011 04:57 PM

So we are encouraged to question and demand evidence and proof of G-d's existence?

I think we receive evidence everytime a prayer gets answered!

I suppose G-d may welcome man's ignorance, by performing a miracle in their lives.

"Without faith it is impossible to please G-d" for "We walk by faith and not by sight" , " By faith we understand that the universe was formed at G-d's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible", "Faith is being sure of what we hope for, and certain of what WE DO NOT SEE" isn't this blind faith?



When Job questioned G-d for his lot, the Almightly responded,



Job 38

The LORD Speaks

1 Then the LORD spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:



2 �Who is this that obscures my plans

with words without knowledge?

3 Brace yourself like a man;

I will question you,

and you shall answer me.



4 �Where were you when I laid the earth�s foundation?

Tell me, if you understand.

5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!

Who stretched a measuring line across it?

6 On what were its footings set,

or who laid its cornerstone�

7 while the morning stars sang together

and all the angels[a] shouted for joy?



8 �Who shut up the sea behind doors

when it burst forth from the womb,

9 when I made the clouds its garment

and wrapped it in thick darkness,

10 when I fixed limits for it

and set its doors and bars in place,

11 when I said, �This far you may come and no farther;

here is where your proud waves halt�?



12 �Have you ever given orders to the morning,

or shown the dawn its place,

13 that it might take the earth by the edges

and shake the wicked out of it?

14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;

its features stand out like those of a garment.

15 The wicked are denied their light,

and their upraised arm is broken.



16 �Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea

or walked in the recesses of the deep?

17 Have the gates of death been shown to you?

Have you seen the gates of the deepest darkness?

18 Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth?

Tell me, if you know all this.



19 �What is the way to the abode of light?

And where does darkness reside?

20 Can you take them to their places?

Do you know the paths to their dwellings?

21 Surely you know, for you were already born!

You have lived so many years!



22 �Have you entered the storehouses of the snow

or seen the storehouses of the hail,

23 which I reserve for times of trouble,

for days of war and battle?

24 What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed,

or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth?

25 Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain,

and a path for the thunderstorm,

26 to water a land where no one lives,

an uninhabited desert,

27 to satisfy a desolate wasteland

and make it sprout with grass?

28 Does the rain have a father?

Who fathers the drops of dew?

29 From whose womb comes the ice?

Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens

30 when the waters become hard as stone,

when the surface of the deep is frozen?



31 �Can you bind the chains[b] of the Pleiades?

Can you loosen Orion�s belt?

32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons[c]

or lead out the Bear[d] with its cubs?

33 Do you know the laws of the heavens?

Can you set up God�s[e] dominion over the earth?



34 �Can you raise your voice to the clouds

and cover yourself with a flood of water?

35 Do you send the lightning bolts on their way?

Do they report to you, �Here we are�?

36 Who gives the ibis wisdom[f]

or gives the rooster understanding?[g]

37 Who has the wisdom to count the clouds?

Who can tip over the water jars of the heavens

38 when the dust becomes hard

and the clods of earth stick together?

Job 40

8 �Would you discredit my justice?

Would you condemn me to justify yourself?

9 Do you have an arm like God�s,

and can your voice thunder like his?

10 Then adorn yourself with glory and splendor,

and clothe yourself in honor and majesty.

11 Unleash the fury of your wrath,

look at all who are proud and bring them low,

12 look at all who are proud and humble them,

crush the wicked where they stand.

13 Bury them all in the dust together;

shroud their faces in the grave.

14 Then I myself will admit to you

that your own right hand can save you.

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