Thread: For discussion/debate: Did Yeshua "fulfill" or otherwise nullify the Laws of Moshe?
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For discussion/debate: Did Yeshua "fulfill" or otherwise nullify the Laws of Moshe?
Posted : 12 Jul, 2011 10:16 AM
As a Jew (pre-Talmudic tradition 'Karaite' et al.) something I often wonder about Christianity in general is the Bible. I often hear that Yeshua fulfilled, or otherwise made Jewish Laws in the OT portion of a Bible null and void (often when they're difficult or people wanna do something expressly forbidden heh.) Despite God saying throughout the OT His commandments and ordinances are eternal:
1. These are the statutes and ordinances that you shall keep to perform in the land which the Lord God of your fathers gives you to possess all the days that you live on the earth.
28. Keep and hearken to all these words that I command you, that it may benefit you and your children after you, forever, when you do what is good and proper in the eyes of the Lord, your God.
- Deuteronomy 12
160. The beginning of Your word is true, and each of Your righteous judgments is eternal. - Psalms 119
22. Keep in remembrance the teaching of Moses, My servant-the laws and ordinances which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel.
- Malachi 3 (note: some versions of the Bible seem to make 3 into 2 parts listing this as 4:4; am using an actual Tanakh though.)
Looking at Matthew, I wonder if these verses are where the "He fulfilled the Law..." comes from?
17`Do not suppose that I came to throw down the law or the prophets -- I did not come to throw down, but to fulfill;
18for, verily I say to you, till that the heaven and the earth may pass away, one iota or one tittle may not pass away from the law, till that all may come to pass.
19`Whoever therefore may loose one of these commands -- the least -- and may teach men so, least he shall be called in the reign of the heavens, but whoever may do and may teach [them], he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.
For discussion/debate: Did Yeshua "fulfill" or otherwise nullify the Laws of Moshe?
Posted : 12 Jul, 2011 01:28 PM
In the old covenant God's commandments were only preached to Jews but in the New Covenant Jesus commands us to preach to every nation in the world teaching them to obey *EVERYTHING* He commanded and everything would also include all of the approximately 400 NT commandments also taught in Acts to Revelation {See 2 Timothy 3-16 to 4:2.}
There were 613 OT commandments and Jesus changed many of them including all of the strict Sabbath commands and all of the commands to stone someone for sinning {Jesus says that he who is without sin should cast the first stone} Jesus also eliminated all the strict Levitical dietary laws declaring that all foods are now clean. And Jesus also commanded us not to make any vows or oaths {Matt 5:33-37}on anything Just let your Yes be yes and your no, no.
Jesus also eliminated the eye for an eye laws and commanded us to always offer up the other cheek and to love {See Matt 5:38-48} our enemies. And of course Jesus eliminated all sacrifices and offerings for sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Jesus also eliminated the earthly rewards for faithful service and commanded us to sell our possessions and give to the poor and get *TREASURES IN HEAVEN* and **THEN** come follow Him.
Luke 12:33,34: Jesus says, �Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted....For where your treasure is there your heart will be also.�
Matthew 5:17-19:
17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19 "Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Actually Jesus did completely *FULFILL* the law and then put an end to all Old Testament sacrifices for sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
Immediately after the above statement of Jesus in Matthew 5:17-19 Jesus proceeded to change SEVEN Old Testament laws in Matthew 5:20-48.
In Mark 7:18,19: "Are you so dull," Jesus asked, "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him unclean? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body.!" In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "CLEAN"! Thus doing away with all the Levitical dietary laws.
Jesus also fulfilled this prophecy in Deuteronomy 18:17-19: The Lord said to Moses, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among your brothers; I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. If anyone does not listen to My words {See John 14:24,31} that the Prophet speaks in My Name, I Myself will call him to account."
Galatians 3:23-25: " Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the {OT} Law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the {OT} Law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the {OT}Law!"
In the old covenant God's commandments were only preached to Jews but in the New Covenant Jesus commands us to preach to every nation in the world teaching them to obey *EVERYTHING* He commanded and everything would also include all of the approximately 400 NT commandments also taught in Acts to Revelation {See 2 Timothy 3-16 to 4:2.}
But one of the biggest changes was an addition to the OT Law love your neighbor as you love yourself which was replaced by
John 15:9-14:
Jesus says, "As the Father has loved Me , so I have loved you. Now remain in MY LOVE. **IF** you obey My commands, you will remain in MY LOVE...My command is this: **LOVE** each other AS I HAVE LOVED YOU!!! Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his live for his friends."
All of the approximately 400 NT commands differ from the OT Covenant in that they must all be kept *IN LOVE* just as Jesus loved us!!
John 14:23,24: Jesus says, "If anyone loves Me, He will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with Him. He who does not love Me will not obey My teaching."{See I John 2:3-5!!}
Hebrews 9:15,26b-28: Christ is the mediator of a **NEW COVENANT** so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that He has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant...But now He has APPEARED once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the SACRIFICE of Himself... so Christ was SACRIFICED ONCE to take away the sins of many people, and He will *APPEAR* a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him.
Hebrews 8:8,9,13: God found fault with the people and said: The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a **NEW COVENANT** with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will **NOT** be like the covenant I made with their forefathers.....By calling this covenant **NEW**, He made the first one **OBSOLETE**; and what is **OBSOLETE** and aging will soon disappear.� When all the words of the New Covenant were completed by the Book of Revelation in AD 96!!
Hebrew 10:8-10: Jesus said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them. Although the law required them to be made. The He {Jesus} said. "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He {Jesus} set aside the first {Covenant} to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus ONCE FOR ALL!!:applause:
Isaiah 53:5,6: "He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him and by His wounds we are healed. We all like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to His own way, and the Lord has laid on HIM the iniquity of us all!!":applause:
For discussion/debate: Did Yeshua "fulfill" or otherwise nullify the Laws of Moshe?
Posted : 12 Jul, 2011 01:34 PM
Many non-denominational churches I have attended subscribed to the Grace vs. Law doctrine.
They taught that Jesus fulfilled the law by coming as Messiah and while this is truth, it is only half-truth, they fail to teach that one must obey the law also. They believe that because of Grace, all is forgiven and tend to push the obedience piece aside. I believe they hold to the "license to sin" doctrine.
If I am understanding your question correctly, I do believe we must repent, confess, believe Yeshua as Lord and Savior, but also follow the Ten Commandments, not for our salvation, or perfectly as Yeshua did, but to the best of our ability.
As far as the Levitical law, I believe that was done away with under the old covenant and that Christ does represent a new and better covenant. We are to submit our bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable unto G-d which is our reasonable act of service, any thing less is an unreasonable act of service. Instead of sacrifices of animals, we offer the sacrifice of praise and worship HIM in spirit and in truth.
For discussion/debate: Did Yeshua "fulfill" or otherwise nullify the Laws of Moshe?
Posted : 12 Jul, 2011 03:25 PM
I think this is actually a really simple issue here. The reason for all of the laws is not to be burdensome, but to be freeing. David discovered that, and that's why all over the Psalms he's saying how much he loves the laws. They stem from God's character; sin is anything that is inconsistent with the character of God and therefore since Jesus IS God, he cannot logically do anything other than fulfill the laws which are lesser than God but still pointing to him.
It comes down to the reason for the laws: pleasing God. But what pleases God most? The first and second greatest commandments Jesus mentions, basically love God with your whole being and love others almost as much. If you do those two things, you don't need to worry about the many many specific laws from Moses because they encompass the entirety of what those laws are trying to accomplish. But those laws were necessary before Jesus BECAUSE without Jesus there is no way to directly know God, which we can do now via sanctification in the Holy Spirit and by our personal relationship with Christ. Because God is a very intimately personal God, the general guideline of "love God" that Jesus said wasn't possible until Jesus came, opening the door for us to KNOW God and thus be able to actually love him.
All that to say, yes, Jesus completely fulfills and supersedes the laws of the old testament. He gives us the New Covenant in his blood, and that is the key to real life.
For discussion/debate: Did Yeshua "fulfill" or otherwise nullify the Laws of Moshe?
Posted : 12 Jul, 2011 11:38 PM
Prophetic774, I am not sure that I would personally use Mark 7:15 or 7:18 and 19 to justify the nullification of Levitical dietary laws. The context of this whole teaching originated from Pharisees questioning why some of Yeshua's disciples didn't wash their hands before partaking in a meal according to their elders' tradition, which would otherwise result in cultural and hygiene uncleanliness. I can see how it can be interpreted in a more broad sense though, just as how Jews do with Kashrut and other Levitical Laws.
My understanding of the Law and Yeshua was that He gave us an even higher standard by calling us to do all things through love. Saying, and believing that the Law was "done away with", or "gotten rid of" seems almost... blasphemous. The Law is perfect, and given to the Jews and all who wanted to worship and love Hashem.
From my understanding, the sacrificial system was fulfilled in Yeshua's death as the wages of sin is death. The life blood of an offering had to flow in order to atone for the grave offenses of sin. Yeshua, of course, became the perfect and highest sacrifice made for all who believe in Hashem.
Anyway, I still wrestle with this topic myself, and I thank you all for shedding light on it. May the LORD bless you all!
For discussion/debate: Did Yeshua "fulfill" or otherwise nullify the Laws of Moshe?
Posted : 14 Jul, 2011 08:03 AM
Ya, know I feel a need to spend more time in the Old Testament. would any of you be willing to give me a couple of references as to say what current Rabbi's read as a standard text I understand they read the Torah..does that come in an english form? personally, I read "kosher Sex" some years ago...it sort of started me on a quest to develop "interdependent relationships". To me, the Jewish religion has some real world, practical approaches to daily living. I could use some guidance on delving into the Old Testament, yes, we probably disagree on some things...I say the Old Testament is for my learning, you say "oh, but parts of it are addressed to you"....whatever, we agree to disagree, well that's my point of view.
