Revelation 7: 1-4 says "And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."
Lets see what John Gill, a Christian Bible scholar who lived before dispensationalism, said about the identity of the 144,000.
John Gill (1697 � 1771) On Revelation 7: 4:
"Dr. Goodwin thinks these sealed ones design the believers of the Greek and Armenian churches, and his reasons are not despicable; but this is to limit and restrain them to a particular part of the church of Christ; whereas they take in all the saints within this long tract of time, even all that are the true Israel of God, who are Jews inwardly, of what nation, kindred, tongue, and people soever; and is a certain and determinate number for an uncertain and indeterminate one; and only intends a large number of persons known to God and Christ; see the Apocrypha: "
Gill is following the amillennial position on Revelation 7: 4, which was expressed by Augustine and used by the Calvinists and Lutherans following the Reformation. Amillennialism says the 144,000 are an allegory of the saints of all ages. But Gill is right in saying the 144,000 are those who are Jews inwardly, following Romans 2: 28-29, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Those now in the protesant churches who are followers of Darby, Scofield, and Chafer cannot hear Romans 2: 28-29, Romans 9: 6-8, or Galatians 4: 24-26 as defining Israel in a new way by Paul, and so they ignore this very important New Testament doctrine that there exists two Israels, on physical Israel, not saved, and the other Israel reborn in Jesus Christ, and saved. What Paul says in Romans 2: 25-27 is also important in understanding Paul's position on physical Israel.
Followers of Darby, Scofield and Chafer must say the 144,000 are all Jews, because dispensationalism postulates
that Israel must always refer to the Jews, or physical Israel, in scripture.
Since the New Testament writings of Paul teach that there are two Israels, one physical Israel, not the people of God, and the other Israel reborn in Christ of all races, who are the people of God, why then did the classical dispensationalists teach that God has two distinctly different groups, Jews and the Church?
John Darby (1800-1882) started from the idea that the dispensation of law ended at the cross when the dispensation of grace began. But then when the seven year dispensationalist tribulation period begins, Darby claimed that another dispensation of law begins. Darby's claim that during the tribulation another dispensation of law begins is the first and original problem with the theology called dispensationalism. This creates the problem of the Dispensationalist "Church" being around during the dispensation of law that comes back in when the tribulation begins. How would the "Church" return to the dispensation of law?
Darby had to say that the dispensationalist "church" would be taken off the earth before the tribulation, leaving the Jews to be dealt with by God. Yet Darby must have had the Jews in mind when he said that another dispensation of law begins during the tribulation. So Darby must not have been able to hear Paul when Paul wrote that there are two Israels. Apparently to Darby the Jews remained as a separate people of God under the Old Covenant. The idea of dispensationalism that the Jews remain a people of God alongside the "church" is a postulate by Darby as the starting point of this theology. A postulate is a starting belief or position, assumed to be true. Where this assumption becomes confusing is when the dispensationalists compromise the idea that the Jews remain under the Old Covenant and are saved by virtue of their race, and begin to propose that Jews will accept Christ, implying they do so on Christ's terms. If Jews did accept salvation on Christ's terms and fully convert to Christianity and not remain in part in their legalistic mind set, and come completely out of Talmudic Judaism, there would be no problem. But the problem comes about when Jews hold on to what they think is their superior status with God based on race, and they want to mix that with an acceptance of their version of Christ. Thinking one has a special place with God because of one's DNA, and not because of one's faith is a form of legalism. This applies also to the belief of the Christian Identity people that God favors them because they are of Germanic and Celtic blood lines as descendants of the lost Tribes of Israel. It also applies to the Mormons.
See http://www.bibleandscience.com/archaeology/losttribes.htm
"Mormons believe that a family from the tribe of Manasseh migrated to the America shortly before Jerusalem was destroyed in 586 BC, and that another group migrated after the fall of Jerusalem. Smith wrote the Book of Mormon to explain about the Indians that Christ visited after he arose. Smith claims that the angel Moroni came to him and showed him where there was a book of golden plates written in hieroglyphics that he was able to translate with special glasses."
The Mormons believe they have some Israelite blood in them and therefore they too are God's chosen based on race.
What Revelation 7: 1-8 says about the 144,000 being from the twelve tribes of Israel has to be interpreted by New Testament scripture, not by what John Darby, C.I. Scofield and Lewis Sperry Chafer postulated about Israell always being physical Israel in the Bible. As followers of Jesus Christ we do not postulate or assume a belief to be true in the abstract separate from what the Bible says. Or, perhaps these guys did not read the New Testament well enough to show themselves to be approved. But their theological system became so popular in America and later in some other nations who received it from American dispensationalist missionaries that it took over the majority of Protestant denominations.
The primary New Testament text to be used for interpreting who the 144,000 are is Romans 2: 28-29, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."
The 144,000 are all inward Jews. This does not mean that there could not be a few among them who were outward Jews at one time, but who fully converted to Christ. And - we don't know now when the 144,000 will be sealed, because we have no clear sign about exactly when the tribulation will begin. The 144,000 could even now still be in the process of being sealed. There is nothing I know of that says they will all be sealed in an instant, all at once.
This is a brilliant post! I'm thinking that the 144,000 is from each tribe and since there are 12 tribes, then it would be 144,000 x12? I have heard the Mormons belief that they are the 144,000. I have never heard it explained this way and this completely makes sense in light of Romans 11.
verview: The Twelve Tribes [Encyclopaedia Judaica]
Asher
Benjamin
Dan
Gad
Issachar
Joseph*
Judah
Levi
Naphtali
Reuben
Simeon
Zebulun
(Around the Tabernacle and in order of their marches)
I see that the 144,000 comprise 12,000 from each of these tribes,however, that does not seem like very many. Also, the jehovah witness think they are the 144,000, however, there are more than that in that cult.
WILL ALL ISRAEL BE SAVED BY THE END OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION WITH THE HELP OF 144,000 JEWISH EVANGELISTS AND TWO JEWISH WITNESSES CALLED MOSES AND ELIJAH??
Luke 21:24: Jesus says, �Jerusalem shall be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are complete.� The Times of the Gentiles was from AD 70 to June 7th, 1967 when the Jews again gained complete control of Jerusalem after 1897 years. In 1948 the Jordanian Gentiles destroyed 34 of the 35 Jewish Synagogues in Jerusalem and kicked out almost all the Jews. Obama would like Israel to return to its 1948 borders.
During the Great Tribulation Moses and Elijah will most likely witness miraculously to people in the uttermost parts of the earth in all 6,000 languages. Presently the Bible has been translated into about 2,000 languages from the inspired Greek and Hebrew manuscripts and faith comes from hearing or reading the sword of the spirit which is the Word of God. The Bible still has not been translated into about 4,000 languages and Rev 5:9b and Rev 7:9,13,14 must be completely fulfilled. Surely the courageous tribulation saints will help Moses and Elijah spread God's Word. They will do a fantastic job since according to Rev 7:9,14 there will be a great multitude from EVERY TRIBE AND LANGUAGE who will be �washed in the Blood of the Lamb� during the Great Tribulation.
Rev 6:9-11: When He {Jesus} opened the 5th seal, I saw the souls of those who had been slain {Just like Jesus} because of the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, �How long until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?� The each of them was given a *WHITE ROBE*, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed. Rev 7:9,13,14,15a,17a:
�After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from *EVERY* NATION, TRIBE, PEOPLE AND LANGUAGE, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb {Jesus}. They were wearing *WHITE ROBES*�Then one of the {24} elders {Rev 4:4} asked me, �These in *WHITE ROBES*�who are they and where did they come from?�� And he said, �These are they who have come out of the Great Tribulation; {Martyrs just like Jesus} they have washed their robes and made them WHITE in the *BLOOD OF THE LAMB* {Jesus}. They are before the throne of God and serve him day and night... The Lamb {Jesus} at the center of the throne will be their Shepherd.� {See Rev 12:11 & Rev 13:8-10}
This passage in Rev 7:9 above shows that the Great Tribulation will be mainly for Christians in *EVERY Gentile nation and not just Jacob�s Jewish trouble which absolutely contradicts the main thesis of the pre-trib fairy tale. Revelation 14:13: Then I heard a voice from heaven say {During the Great Trib}, "Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." "Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them." Rev 12:11: �They {THE TRIBULATION MARTYRS} overcame him {Satan} by the *BLOOD OF THE LAMB* and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.�
Revelation 7:3,4: The angel said, �Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God,� Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the {12} tribes of Israel.
This event occurred just before the land and sea were harmed by the first 6 trumpet plagues in Rev chapters 8 & 9. Also occurring just before the first 6 trumpet plagues will be the scene in heaven above of martyrs from every nation in Rev 7:9-18. So it is completely obvious that the 144,000 Jews did NOT participate in the evangelizing of the Gentiles from every nation in the world. There are many who believe that the 144,000 Jews will then evangelize Jews through out the world and possibly only Jews will be saved during the rest of the Great Tribulation since Gentiles from every nation of the world will already be saved. According to Zechariah 12;10; 13:8,9: Two-thirds of the Jews will be struck down and perish but one-third will call on my name and will say, �The Lord is our God.�
Presently there are approximately 15 million Jews and about 2 % or 30,000 are Christians. During the Great Tribulation 10 million Jews will die and 5 million will be saved which is an additional 4,970,000 if 30 thousand are now Christians.
Romans 11:25-29: I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part **until the full number of Gentiles has come in **{As per Rev 7:9,14 above}. ***AND SO ALL ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED***, as it is written: {In Jeremiah 31:33,34} �The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob {Israel}. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.� As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned they are loved on account of the patriarchs {Moses, Abraham, David ,Joseph, Isaiah, Elijah etc etc etc}, for God's gifts and His call are irrevocable. {Read Romans 11:11-32 and Hebrews 11:39-40}
Acts 1:6-8: The Jewish disciples asked Jesus, �Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel??� Jesus said to them: �It is not for you to know the times and dates the Father has set by His own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and to the ends of the earth.!!� Matthew 24:14: Jesus says {During thr Great Tribulation} �This gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to **ALL NATIONS** and **THEN** the **END** will come!�
God also inspired 40 Jewish men to write every Word in God's Word in both the OT and NT. Jesus was 50 % Jewish and is called the King of the Jews 12 times in the NT and the 12 Apostles including Paul were all Jewish who brought the Gospel to the Gentiles in the 1st Century. The Israelites are called Jews 80 times in the OT beginning with the book of Esther about 600 BC and the Israelites are called Jews over 200 times in the NT.
Acts 2:5: �Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.� And on the day of Pentecost 3,000 Jews were saved as per Acts 2:5,14,41. John 4:22b: Jesus says, "Salvation is from the Jews.!" Matthew 2:1,2: Wise men from the East asked, �Where is the One who has been born King of the Jews?� Matthew 27:11: Pilate asked Jesus, �Are you the King of the Jews?� �Yes it is as you say,� Jesus replied!
God said to Abraham, in Genesis 17:8: �The whole land of Canaan I will be give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you.�
Quotes from Obama:devil: on May 20th, 2011: �Israel must learn do defend itself **BY ITSELF**!!� �Israel must return to **PRE-1967 BORDERS**!!� Nations from all over the world have heartily agreed with King Obama's 2 statements including the European Union, Russia and the United nations. Obama has also stated that he does not have to abide by the War Powers Act or the Constitution in declaring war thus making Obama a King with the power to make war against anyone he desires as long as he desires!
