Thread: Who will be God's 2 Witnesses in Revelation 11:3-12??
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Who will be God's 2 Witnesses in Revelation 11:3-12??
Posted : 9 Jun, 2011 01:28 PM
Who will be God's 2 Witnesses in Revelation 11:3-12??
Posted : 8 Jun, 2011 01:08 PM
WHO WILL BE GOD'S TWO WITNESSES {REV 11:3} OR MEN {REV 11:6} OR PROPHETS {REV 11:10}??
Zechariah 4:11,14: "Then I asked the angel, 'What are these *TWO* OLIVE TREES {See Rev 11:4 below} on the right and left of the lamp stand?'... the angel said, 'These are the TWO who are anointed to serve the Lord of the earth!'" Rev 11:3-6: {God said to John} "I will give power to My *TWO* witnesses and they will prophesy for 1260 days clothed in sackcloth! These are the *TWO OLIVE TREES {See Zech 4:11,14 above} and the 2 lamp stands that stand before the Lord of the earth. If anyone tries to harm them, fire will come from their mouths to destroy their enemies.
This is how anyone who tries to harm them must die {See 2 Kings 1:9-12; Num 16:31-35}. These *MEN* will have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying {See 1 Kings 17:1; Luke 4:25; James 5:17}; and they will have power to turn the waters into blood {See Exodus 7:15-23} and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they wish."
Moses and Elijah witnessed to 3 Apostles on the mount of Transfiguration when Moses & Elijah spoke to Jesus about his departure or Ascension, which Jesus was to bring to fulfillment in Jerusalem 40 days after His resurrection. Luke 9:30,31: �TWO MEN Moses and Elijah, appeared in GLORIOUS SPLENDOR talking with Jesus. They spoke about His Departure {Or Ascension} which He was about to bring to fulfillment in Jerusalem."
Moses and Elijah were most assuredly the *TWO MEN* dressed in white who witnessed at the Departure or Ascension of Jesus in Acts 1:10,11: "They looked up into the sky as He {Jesus} was going when suddenly *TWO MEN* dressed in WHITE stood beside them. "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into Heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into Heaven!"
And then in Luke 24:2b-6b we read: They did not find the body of Jesus. While they were wondering about this, suddenly *TWO MEN*... stood beside them... And the *MEN* said to them, "Why do you look for the living among the dead? HE IS NOT HERE; HE HAS RISEN!!" Jesus says in John 8:17b: "The testimony of *TWO MEN IS VALID* and of course the testimony of Moses and Elijah is just about as valid as you can get.
And so the coming of God's *TWO MEN* or witnesses to prophesy for 1260 days {See Rev 11:3-7} will be their FOURTH appearance as God's 2 witnesses or MEN. And the reason that their names are not mentioned in Luke 24:3 and Acts 1:10 and Rev 11:3-12 is that the Father, Moses and Elijah want us to glorify *NO ONE ELSE BUT JESUS*!!
Moses and Elijah will most likely witness miraculously to people in the uttermost parts of the earth in all 6,000 languages. Presently the Bible has been translated into about 2,000 languages from the inspired Greek and Hebrew manuscripts and faith comes from hearing or reading the sword of the spirit which is the Word of God.
The Bible still has not been translated into about 4,000 languages and Rev 5:9b and Rev 7:9,13,14 must be completely fulfilled. Surely the courageous tribulation saints will help Moses and Elijah spread God's Word. They will do a fantastic job since according to Rev 7:9,14 there will be a great multitude from EVERY TRIBE AND LANGUAGE who will be �washed in the Blood of the Lamb�.
Moses & Elijah will be dressed in SACKCLOTH which is appropriate since the Tribulation saints will be very poor, for they will not be able to buy or sell anything as per Rev 13:17. Moses and Elijah will certainly speak the Word of God with great power and love. They will not add or take words away from the Prophetic Words of God {See Rev 22:18,19}; and they will encourage God's courageous saints to adhere to *ALL* of the NT commandments {See Rev 12:13b; 14:12b; Matt 28:20a; John 14:15,21,23; I John 2:2-5} with love {See Matt 5:39-48 & Rom 12:17-21} in the face of severe and hostile persecution.
Moses and Elijah will begin their 1260-day testimony {Rev 11:3} 3 1/2 days before the coming of 666 & the 1260-day Great Tribulation and 1263 1/2 days before the Last Day. {*THE FIRST END-TIME EVENT*} Moses and Elijah will warn us of the coming of 666 & his False Prophet.
It seems very appropriate that God will send His TWO PROPHETS {See Rev 11:10b} to warn and prepare His saints for the coming of Satan, 666, the False Prophet and the Great Tribulation for in Amos 3:7 we read: "Surely the Sovereign Lord does nothing without revealing His plan to His servants the PROPHETS!"
GOD'S PROPHETS are mentioned 8 times in Revelation: Revelation 10:7; 11:10; 11:18; 16:6; 18:20,24; 22:6 & 22:9. Whereas; preachers, pastors and evangelists are not even mentioned once in Revelation! God will allow 666 to martyr Moses and Elijah {See Rev 11:7,8} right where their Lord was crucified. {At the new *HOLY PLACE* where Jesus shed his blood for our sins} 3 1/2 days later Moses and Elijah will rise to heaven just hours before the 7th angel sounds the 7th Trump at the 2nd coming of Jesus.{See Rev 11:11-18}
Mark 13:14: Jesus says, �When you see 666 standing where he does not belong {At the New Holy Place}....then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.� {See Rev 11:7,8 & Rev 16:15} John 2:19: Jesus said, �Destroy this TEMPLE and I will raise it again in 3 days.� This HOLY PLACE is where Jesus became the chief cornerstone {Eph 2:20,21} and we are living stones {I Pet 2:5 & 2 Cor 6:16} in the LAST TEMPLE made without hands! {Acts 17:24}
Certainly, the old Jerusalem and the old Temple site are NO LONGER HOLY PLACES. Hebrews 13:12-14: "Jesus suffered outside the city gate to make the people HOLY THROUGH HIS BLOOD. Let us, then, go to Him outside the city, bearing the disgrace He bore. For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the CITY {THE NEW JERUSALEM} that is to come." {See Heb 11:10,13-16; Heb 12:22; Rev 3:12b; 21:2,10-27; 22:1-5; 2 Pet 3:13}
Galatians 4:25,26:
"Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem {Called Sodom in Rev 11:8} because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem that is ABOVE is free, and she is our mother." {The New Jerusalem}
POIC says:
Who will be God's 2 Witnesses in Revelation 11:3-12??
Posted : 8 Jun, 2011 07:56 PM
Since Scripture reveals Scripture.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Who are the 2 candlesticks?
Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Rev 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
I will post the 2 Olive trees when i return from work
Who will be God's 2 Witnesses in Revelation 11:3-12??
Posted : 9 Jun, 2011 01:37 PM
Hello everyone:
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Again since Scripture reveals Scripture.
Let us look into the Word of YHWH to see what He says about Olive trees,Olive trees not Olive branches.
In Scripture a branch is considered one person.
Jer_33:15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
Zec_3:8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.
Zec_6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Rom_11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom_11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
I know there are other verses for this.
If a branch is one person,then an entire tree must be a large group of people,if not a nation.
Does not the Olive tree represent Israel.
So then I believe the Two witnesses in Revelation 11,are Israel and the Body of Yeshua..
Who will be God's 2 Witnesses in Revelation 11:3-12??
Posted : 9 Jun, 2011 03:05 PM
" Revelation 11; 3, which first mentions the two
witnesses, is obscure and subject to conjecture."
There are no scriptures that give is any kind of clear cue as to who the two witnesses are, even if they are literal men from the Old Testament. So there is no way to determine who is right in the conjectures of followers of dispensationalism on who they are.
Revelation Chapter Eleven on the Two Witnesses does not give us any
clear indications about what they represent. We should ask what they
represent before we ask who they are. The dispensationalist insistence
upon literal interpretation leads its followers to ask who they are
rather that what they are.
There are no scriptures that give is any kind of clear cue as to who
the two witnesses are, even if they are literal men from the Old
Testament. So there is no way to determine who is right in their
ideas on who they are.
For example, in Revelation 13, on the first beast, verses 1-2 say this
beast is like a leopard, a bear and a lion, and if we know Daniel 7 we
can connect this beast with the first three kingdoms described there -
so we know its government. But in Revelation 11 there is nothing like
this.
Lets go back before dispensationalism came on the scene from about
1830 to 1890 and see what English speaking Christians thought about
the Two Witnesses. What the guys who wrote Bible commentaries then
said about the Two Witnesses doesn't necessarily mean they are totally
correct.
On Revelation 11: 3 John Gill (1697 � 1771) says:
And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses�
"By whom are meant, not Enoch and Elias, as some of the ancient
fathers thought, who, they supposed, would come before the appearance
of Christ, and oppose antichrist, and be slain by him, which sense the
Papists greedily catch at; nor are the Scriptures, the two Testaments,
Old and New, designed, though their name and number agree, and also
their office, which is to testify of Christ; but then to be clothed in
sackcloth, to be killed, and rise again, and ascend to heaven, are
things that cannot so well be accommodated to them: but these
witnesses intend the ministers of the Gospel and churches of Christ,
who have bore testimony for Christ, and against antichrist, ever since
he appeared in the world; and particularly the churches and ministers
in Piedmont bid fair for this character; who were upon the spot when
antichrist arose, always bore their protest against him, and were ever
independent of the church of Rome, and subsisted in the midst of the
darkness of the apostasy; and suffered much, and very great
persecutions, from the Papists; and have stood their ground, and
continue to this day; and have been like olive trees and candlesticks,
imparting oil and light to others. Though they ought not to be
considered exclusive of other ministers and churches, who also have
bore, and still do bear a witness for Christ, and against the
idolatries of the church of Rome."
Adam Clarke (1762�1832) says about the Two Witnesses :
Verse 3. My two witnesses
"This is extremely obscure; the conjectures of interpreters are as
unsatisfactory as they are endless on this point. Conjecturas
conjecturis superstruunt, parum verosimiles, says Rosenmuller: quorum
sententias enarrare, meum non est. I say the same. Those who wish to
be amused or bewildered, may have recourse both to ancients and
moderns on this subject. "
I am adding Clarke's commentary on verses 4, 5 and 6:
Verse 4. These are the two olive trees
"Mentioned Zechariah 4:14, which there represent Zerubbabel and Joshua
the high priest. The whole account seems taken from Zechariah 4:1-14.
Whether the prophet and the apostle mean the same things by these
emblems, we know not."
Verse 5. Fire proceedeth out of their mouth
"That is, they are commissioned to denounce the judgments of God
against all who would attempt to prevent them from proceeding in their
ministry."
Verse 6. These have power to shut heaven
"As Elijah did, 1 Kings 17:1-18:46.
To turn them to blood
As Moses did, Exodus 7:19-25. They shall have power to afflict the
land with plagues, similar to those which were inflicted on the
Egyptians."
This does not mean the Two Witnesses are literally Elijah and Moses.
Neither John Gill nor Adam Clarke said the Two Witnesses were two
literal men. The idea that we must interpret all scripture in a
literal way came after Gill and Clarke's time. The problem with this
dispensationalist rule is that some scripture should be interpreted
literally and some needs to be interpreted metaphorically. You have
to figure out which verses need to be interpreted which way.
Adam Clarke said that Revelation 11; 3, which first mentions the two
witnesses, is obscure and subject to the conjecture. Is there
something in this chapter that can give us a cue as to what its about?
Revelation 11: 5-6 says " And if any man will
hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their
enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be
killed 6. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the
days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to
blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they
will."
If any man hurts the Two Witnesses fire will come out of their
mouths and kill whoever hurt them. This is metaphoric but it is
judgment. They can keep it from raining, turn the waters into
blood and send plaques on the earth.
In Luke 9: 52-55 a village of the Samaritans did not receive Christ,
and so James and John wanted to call fire down from heaven and burn
them up. "And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said,
Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and
consume them, even as Elias did 55. But he turned, and rebuked them,
and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
56. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save
them. And they went to another village."
John 10: 10 says "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill,
and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they
might have it more abundantly."
Old Covenant judgment was sometimes brutal, but Christ came not to
kill and destroy, but to bring abundant life.
An example of the type of judgment that James and John wanted to be
done to the village of the Samaritans - which can be found under the
Old Covenant - is when Elijah
called fire down from heaven to burn up Jezebel's 450 prophets of Baal
and 400 prophets
of the groves in I Kings 18: 19-38.
Elias in Luke 9: 54 is Elijah who did call fire down on the false prophets of
Jezebel to burn them all up. This led the literalist
dispensationalists to say that the Two
Witnesses are Elijah and Moses. But we have seen
that dispensationalism as a man-made theology has
insisted on literal interpretations even for verses that
the context does not support such an interpretation.
Who will be God's 2 Witnesses in Revelation 11:3-12??
Posted : 9 Jun, 2011 03:35 PM
Halfback:
That sounds like the Christian Reformed view of Revelation which believes the whole book of Revelation is just one big symbolic fairy tale that no on can really understand. When I went to Calvin College which is the Christian Reformed college I learned that Luther did not believe that James and Revelation were part of God's Word and that John Calvin did not believe that Revelation was part of God 's Word and wrote an Institute for every book in the Bible except Revelation.:ROFL:
I have heard hundreds of sermons by Christian Reformed preachers and have never heard 1 sermon from the book of Revelation. Christian Reformed preachers will never admit that they don't believe Revelation is part of God's Word like their founder John Calvin since Revelation is now a part of every Protestant Bible.
Once you believe Revelation is a big symbolic fairy tale you can add any interpretation your little old heart desires.:buddies:
The Post-trib view of Revelation is not dispensational in any way.
Rev 22:16,18,19: Jesus says, �I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give *YOU* {The Greek for YOU is plural} this testimony {ALL OF REVELATION} *FOR* the CHURCHES.� :angel:This contradicts the ridiculous dispensational idea that Revelation, chapters 4-19, was not written *FOR* the CHURCHES! The word �CHURCH�is also not mentioned in 9 books of the NT: John, Mark, Luke, 2 Tim, 1 John, 2 John, 1 Peter, 2 Peter and Jude; and is not mentioned in the first 15 chapters of Romans and yet every word in all these NT books are �FOR THE CHURCHES�..... �I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book. If anyone *ADDS* anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY**{Like John Calvin} from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city which are described in this book.�
Who will be God's 2 Witnesses in Revelation 11:3-12??
Posted : 9 Jun, 2011 03:42 PM
There are some who say that Moses could not be one of the two witnesses because of the Hebrews 9:27: "Man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment" and God's 2 witnesses will be killed by 666 in Rev 11:7; which would mean that Moses would die twice if he was one of the 2 witnesses.
However, while the above verse is the general rule there are many exceptions to this verse since all the saints alive at the 2nd Coming of Jesus will not even die once. Also during the NT 7 people including Lazarus died and then were raised to life and then later died again.
As we have shown in the Bible study Moses and Elijah appeared on the Mount of Transfiguration and 3 other times in the NT and were then God's TWO Witnesses. Moses is mentioned over 800 times in God's Word second only to Jesus and would therefore be a more powerful well-known witness than Enoch mentioned 13 times or John the Baptist who became a very poor witness when he asked Jesus if he was really the Messiah.
Matthew 11:2,11: When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples to ask Him, "Are you the One who was to come, or should we expect someone else?"...Jesus said, "I tell you truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of Heaven is greater than he."
