Author	Thread: Irresistible Grace................!!
Admin	Irresistible Grace................!! Posted : 8 Jun, 2011 03:43 PM Each member of the Trinity--the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit-- participates in and contributes to the salvation of sinners. As was shown in the other posts, the Father, before the foundation of the world. marked out those who were to be saved and gave them to the Son to be His people. At the appointed time the Son came into the world and secured their redemption. But these two great acts--election and redemption--do not complete the work of salvation, because included in God's plan for recovering lost sinners is the renewing work of the Holy Spirit by which the benefits of Christ's obedience and death are applied to the elect. It is with this phase of salvation (its application by the Spirit) the the doctrine of Irresistable Grace or Efficacious Grace is concerned. Simply stated, this doctrine asserts that the Holy Spirit never fails to bring to salvation those sinners whom He personally calls to Christ. He inevitably applies salvation to EVERY sinner whom he intends to save, and it is His intention to save all the elect. Although the outward call of the gospel is made to all, through preachers, radio, bible tracts, Christians, etc. It is mostly rejected. The special INWARD call of the Spirit never fails to result in the conversion of those for whom it is intended. This special inward call is issued to the elect only! The Spirit is in no way dependent upon their help or cooperation for success in bringing them to Christ. God lovingly takes away their heart of stone and gives them a heart of flesh. they come because the WANT to, the want to, because they have been made willing by HIS grace. A. General statements showing that salvation is the work of the Spirit as well as that of the Father and the Son. Romans 8: 14: For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 1 Corinthians 6:11: But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. see also 1 Cor. 2:10-14; 2 Cor. 3:17,18 1 Corinthians 12:3: Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking by the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus be cursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit. 2 Corinthians 3:6:.... the written code kills, but the Spirit gives life. 1 Peter 1:2: ....chosen and destined by God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling of His blood... B. Through regeneration or the new birth sinners are given spiritual life and made God's children. the Bible describes this process as a spiritual resurrection, a creation, the giving of a new heart, etc. 1. Sinners, through regeneration, are brought into God's kingdom and are made His children. The AUTHOR of this "second" birth is the Holy Spirit; the INSTRUMENT which He uses is the word of God. John 1: 12,13: But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God; WHO WERE BORN, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but OF GOD. John 3:3-8: is Jesus speaking and is famous. It is where we Christians get the phrase "born again" that Hollywood and the media love to make fun of. Titus 3:5: ....he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of REGENERATION and RENEWAL IN THE HOLY SPIRIT. 1 PETER 1:3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By his great mercy we have been BORN ANEW to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. see also: 1 Pet. 1:23; 1 John 5:4 2. Through the Spirit's work the dead sinner is given a new heart (nature) and made to walk in God's law. In Christ he becomes a new creation. Deuteronomy 30:6: And the Lord your God will CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEART and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the lord your god with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live. Ezekiel 36:26,27 A NEW HEART I will give you, and a NEW SPIRIT I will put within you; and I will take out of your flesh the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances. (compare Ezekiel 11:19) Galations 6:15: For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a NEW CREATION. see also: 2 Cor. 5:17,18; Ephesians 2:10; 3. The Holy Spirit raises the sinner from his state of spiritual death and makes him alive. John 5:21: For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son GIVES LIFE to whom he will. Ephesians 2:1,5: and you HE MADE ALIVE, when you were dead through the trespasses and sins...even when we were dead through our trespasses, [God] made us ALIVE together with Christ.... Colossians 2:13: And you, who were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, GOD MADE ALIVE together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses. C. God makes known to His chosen ones the secrets of the kingdom through the inward personal revelation given by the Spirit. Matthew 11:25-27: AT that time Jesus declared, "I thank thee, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast revealed them to babes; yea, Father, for such was thy gracious will. All things have been delivered to me by my Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one KNOWS THE FATHER except the Son and any one whom the Son CHOOSES TO REVEAL HIM." Luke 10:21: In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, "I thank Thee, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hidden these things from the wise and 'understanding' and REVEALED them to babes; yea, Father, for such was thy gracious will." Matthew 13:10,11,16 Then the disciples came and said to him, "Why do you speak in parables?" And he answered them, "To you it has been GIVEN TO KNOW THE SECRETS of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given....But blessed are our eyes, for they SEE, and your ears, for they HEAR." see also: John 6:37,44,45,64,65 Luke 8:10 Matt. 13:10,11,16 1 Corinthians 2:14 Ephesians 1:17,18 John 10:3-6, 16, 26-29 D. Even FAITH and REPENTANCE are divine GIFTS and wrought in the soul through the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit. Acts 5:31: "God exalted him at his right hand a Leader and Savior, to GIVE REPENTANCE unto life." Acts 13:48: And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of God; and as many as were ORDAINED to eternal life BELIEVED. Acts 18:27 And when he wished to cross to Achaia, the brethren encouraged him, and he wrote to the disciples to receive him. When he arrived, he greatly helped those who THROUGH GRACE HAD BELIEVED. Acts 16:14: One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshipper of God. THE LORD OPENED HER HEART TO GIVE HEED to what was said by Paul. Ephesians 2:8,9: For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD--not because of works, lest any man should boast. see also Acts 11:18; Phillippians 1:29; 2 Tim. 2:25,26 E.The gospel invitation extends an outward call to salvation to all who hear the message. In addition to this external call, the Holy Spirit extends a special inward call to the elect only. The general call of the gospel can be, and often is, rejected, but the special call of the Spirit cannot be rejected; it always results in the conversion of those to whom it is made. Romans 1:6,7; ..including yourselves who are CALLED to belong to Jesus Christ; To all God's beloved in Rome, who are CALLED to be saints.... Romans 8:30; And those whom he predestined he also CALLED; and those whom he CALLED he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified. There are many verses for this. See also: 1 Cor. 1:1,2,9,23-31 Galations 1:15,16; Ephesians 4:4; 2 Tim 1:9 Hebrews 9:15; Jude 1; 1 Peter 2:9 ,5:10; 2 Peter 1:3 Revelation 17:14 F. The application of salvation is ALL of grace and is accomplished solely through the almighty power of God. Isaiah 55:11: "...so shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall ACCOMPLISH that which I PURPOSE, and prosper in the thing for which I sent it." John 3:27: John answered "No one can receive anything except what is GIVEN him from heaven." John 17:2: "...since thou hast given him power over all flesh, so that he might GIVE eternal life to all whom thou hast given him." Romans 9:16: So it depends not upon man's will or exertion, but upon GOD'S MERCY. 1 Corinthians 3:6,7: I planted, Apollos watered, but GOD GAVE THE GROWTH. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who GIVES the growth. See also: 1 Cor. 4:7; Philippians 2:12,13; James 1:18 1 John 5:20: And we know that the Son of God has come and has GIVEN US UNDERSTANDING, to KNOW him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. Sincerely, James Post Reply
View Profile History	Irresistible Grace................!! Posted : 8 Jun, 2011 05:47 PM James wrote - "As was shown in the other posts, the Father, before the foundation of the world. marked out those who were to be saved and gave them to the Son to be His people. At the appointed time the Son came into the world and secured their redemption. But these two great acts--election and redemption--do not complete the work of salvation, because included in God's plan for recovering lost sinners is the renewing work of the Holy Spirit by which the benefits of Christ's obedience and death are applied to the elect." James, I'm curious about something... Since you believe God has created X amount of people for eternal life and it has nothing to do with that person in particular, because God created him specifically for the purpose of life eternal, that is to say, he is already created as saved, therefore he is saved and waiting on Christ to redeem him, is that person actually a lost person during the period prior to their being saved? James wrote - "Acts 16:14: One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshipper of God. THE LORD OPENED HER HEART TO GIVE HEED to what was said by Paul." What's your point with Lydia? Scripture states she was a worshiper of God prior to what was said by Paul, and you're saying what........? James wrote - "Although the outward call of the gospel is made to all, through preachers, radio, bible tracts, Christians, etc. It is mostly rejected." I won't argue that the Gospel is and can be rejected, but your reason for it being rejected is that those who do reject the Gospel do so because God created those rejecters specifically for the purpose of rejecting the Gospel. What other choice to do they have except to reject? James wrote - "The special INWARD call of the Spirit never fails to result in the conversion of those for whom it is intended. This special inward call is issued to the elect only!" So the Holy Spirit does not operate when the Gospel is preached unless you are one of the created for salvation elect? You can have 10 unbelievers in a room, all 10 created for destruction, and if the Gospel is shared with those 10, the Holy Spirit is no where to be found because He only operates when the Gospel is shared to the created for salvation elect? James wrote - ".The gospel invitation extends an outward call to salvation to all who hear the message. In addition to this external call, the Holy Spirit extends a special inward call to the elect only. The general call of the gospel can be, and often is, rejected, but the special call of the Spirit cannot be rejected; it always results in the conversion of those to whom it is made." Well heck... I guess the call to these just wasn't "special" enough... "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye." Either that or there is no such thing as "Irresistible Grace". Post Reply
View Profile History	Irresistible Grace................!! Posted : 8 Jun, 2011 05:56 PM 71 said: James, I'm curious about something... Since you believe God has created X amount of people for eternal life and it has nothing to do with that person in particular, because God created him specifically for the purpose of life eternal, that is to say, he is already created as saved, therefore he is saved and waiting on Christ to redeem him, is that person actually a lost person during the period prior to their being saved? James replies: Yes, they are lost, and spiritually dead. I remember the Bible being a Boring old dry book that meant next to nothing in my mind. I became a Christian when I was 25, and suddenly everything changed. Jesus said he came to seek and save that which was lost, and so, yes until the Holy Spirit comes and makes us into a new Creature, we are lost. In Christ, James Post Reply
View Profile History	Irresistible Grace................!! Posted : 8 Jun, 2011 06:04 PM James, So then you are not created either as eternally saved or eternally damned? You're created lost. Your theology confuses me. :laugh: Post Reply
View Profile History	Irresistible Grace................!! Posted : 8 Jun, 2011 06:12 PM 71 said: James wrote - "Acts 16:14: One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshipper of God. THE LORD OPENED HER HEART TO GIVE HEED to what was said by Paul." What's your point with Lydia? Scripture states she was a worshiper of God prior to what was said by Paul, and you're saying what........? James replies: You are forgetting that a person at that time, could be a Jew, and a devout worshiper of God, without knowing about Jesus. The Lord opened her heart concerning JESUS. James wrote - "Although the outward call of the gospel is made to all, through preachers, radio, bible tracts, Christians, etc. It is mostly rejected." I won't argue that the Gospel is and can be rejected, but your reason for it being rejected is that those who do reject the Gospel do so because God created those rejecters specifically for the purpose of rejecting the Gospel. What other choice to do they have except to reject? James replies: Well, in Romans 9 it says they were created for "common use", so just saying they were created to reject the Gospel is not correct. God has more plans and purposes than we know about. You say, "what other choice do they have except to reject?" They can choose to sin less. They can chose to at least respect the Christian faith. And lets not forget they ARE choosing to reject Jesus. James wrote - "The special INWARD call of the Spirit never fails to result in the conversion of those for whom it is intended. This special inward call is issued to the elect only!" 71 said: So the Holy Spirit does not operate when the Gospel is preached unless you are one of the created for salvation elect? You can have 10 unbelievers in a room, all 10 created for destruction, and if the Gospel is shared with those 10, the Holy Spirit is no where to be found because He only operates when the Gospel is shared to the created for salvation elect? James replies: If the gospel is being preached to a crowd, ALL who hear it, are getting the outward call of the Gospel. However, IN that crowd, there will be some who receive the INWARD call, because of the Holy Spirit making them come alive, and they WILL repent and trust in Jesus. God makes dead people come alive. James wrote - ".The gospel invitation extends an outward call to salvation to all who hear the message. In addition to this external call, the Holy Spirit extends a special inward call to the elect only. The general call of the gospel can be, and often is, rejected, but the special call of the Spirit cannot be rejected; it always results in the conversion of those to whom it is made." 71 said: Well heck... I guess the call to these just wasn't "special" enough... "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye." Either that or there is no such thing as "Irresistible Grace". James replies: It says "you ALWAYS resist the Holy Spirit". That is what totally spiritually dead people do, they ALWAYS reject God. Irresistible Grace, is only Irresistible to those God gives grace to. Romans 10:20: "...I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me." In Christ, James Post Reply
View Profile History	Irresistible Grace................!! Posted : 8 Jun, 2011 07:19 PM James wrote - "It says "you ALWAYS resist the Holy Spirit". That is what totally spiritually dead people do, they ALWAYS reject God. Irresistible Grace, is only Irresistible to those God gives grace to." So the Holy Spirit IS resistible then. James wrote - "You are forgetting that a person at that time, could be a Jew, and a devout worshiper of God, without knowing about Jesus. The Lord opened her heart concerning JESUS." Okay, I gotcha. You're right. However, this does not prove "Irresistible Grace". James wrote - "Well, in Romans 9 it says they were created for "common use", so just saying they were created to reject the Gospel is not correct. God has more plans and purposes than we know about. You say, "what other choice do they have except to reject?" They can choose to sin less. They can chose to at least respect the Christian faith. And lets not forget they ARE choosing to reject Jesus." Now how can they "choose to sin less" in your theology? What would make him sin less? His conscience? Is that not included in his totally depraved state? And again, of course they will choose to reject Christ, but is it really of their choosing or is it because they were created to reject, regardless of how God can use them in their sinful state? James wrote - "If the gospel is being preached to a crowd, ALL who hear it, are getting the outward call of the Gospel. However, IN that crowd, there will be some who receive the INWARD call, because of the Holy Spirit making them come alive, and they WILL repent and trust in Jesus." So the Holy Spirit is limited in who He can touch. Answer me this, James... In your theology only those who have been created for eternal life will ever respond to the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit being the force behind "Irresistible Grace", and only those that God has created for eternal life will the Holy Spirit minister to and be saved, because the doctrine of "Irresistible Grace" dictates that none refuse the Holy Spirit. So the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with those created for Hell. So how does one blaspheme the Holy Spirit? What is the unpardonable sin? "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come." What is the ministry of the Holy Spirit? Is it not to testify of Christ crucified, buried and risen as Saviour? So is the unpardonable sin the total rejection of the truth of what the Holy Spirit reveals? Is it not the total rejection of the truth of Christ? Post Reply
View Profile History	Irresistible Grace................!! Posted : 8 Jun, 2011 07:42 PM Grace is the gift of unmerited favor ....right? Yet if a gift is forced on a person it is no longer a gift....is it? Post Reply
View Profile History	Irresistible Grace................!! Posted : 8 Jun, 2011 07:56 PM ............... Post Reply
View Profile History	Irresistible Grace................!! Posted : 8 Jun, 2011 08:00 PM Two, I agree that a gift, if it is forced upon a person, is no longer a gift. Can a person truly appreciate a free gift if it forced on them? To me it would be like being force-fed. Post Reply
View Profile History	Irresistible Grace................!! Posted : 8 Jun, 2011 09:35 PM "When God calls a man, He does not repent of it. God does not, as many friends do, love one day, and hate another; or a s princes, who make their subjects favourites, and afterwards throw them into prison. This is the blessedness of a saint; his condition admits of no alteration. God's call is founded on His decree, and His decree is immutable. Acts of grace cannot be reversed. God blots out his people's sins, but not their names." THOMAS WATSON Post Reply
View Profile History	Irresistible Grace................!! Posted : 8 Jun, 2011 09:50 PM Calvin's God is so confused......... Post Reply

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