Thread: Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
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Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 29 May, 2011 09:09 AM
This is the surprise that I promised : The forgiveness of your sins are not dependent on your asking for forgiveness --- it is unbiblical.
I looked up 8 forms of the word 'forgive' every single place they occurred in the New Testament after weeding out a few that do not apply to the topic here is what I came up with:
Occurs 1 time --- *Forgiveness based on confession. (1John 1:9)
Occurs 4 times --- *Forgiveness based on the blood of Jesus. (Matt26:28 Eph1:7 Col1:14 Heb9:22)
Occurs 5 times --- *Forgiveness given based on nothing. (Matt9:6 Col2:13 Heb8:10-12 Heb10:16-18 1John2:12)
Occurs 7 times --- *Forgiveness based on Faith. (Matt9:2-6 Mark2:5-10 Luke5:20-24 Acts10:34 Acts13:39 Rom4:7-9 Jam5:15)
Occurs 8 times --- *Forgiveness based on as we Forgive others. (Matt6:12-15 Matt18:21-35 Mark11:25 Luke6:37 Luke11:4 2Cor2:7-10 4:32 Col3:13)
Kind a of Occurs 9 times --- *Forgiveness based on repentance. Note: Of the the first five none reference anyone interacting with Jesus, that leaves only 4 verses in Acts, meaning all but two where written by Luke and the two in Mark, one is about John the Baptist and the other a quote of Isaiah. (Mark1:4 Mark4:12 Luke3:3 Luke17:3-4 Luke24:47 Acts2:38 Acts5:31 Acts8:22 Acts26:18)
Forgiveness based on asking for forgiveness Occurs 0 times in the New Testament.
I submit to you that asking for forgiveness is a lack of Faith or Understanding of the Gospel. Your sins are already forgiven--- All Of Them---Past Present and Future! Therefore the only thing that remains for us is to receive Forgiveness through Faith and in turn Forgive others as Jesus has Forgiven us.
What about confession and repentance? This is really about Faith, about agreeing with God about our sin and turning to Him. Many think to repent means to turn from their sin, I disagree --- that is only half way. To repent is a 180� u turn, meaning turning from sin and to God. Just turning from sin is Not repentance ; it is only a 90� turn from sin.
Forgiveness is only found in believing Jesus already has forgiven you, confession and repentance is not as much about forgiveness as it is about you cooperating with God to remove sin from your life, sin that has Already Been Forgiven!
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 29 May, 2011 11:06 AM
The surprise was worth the wait, Two! If it isn't Biblical, is it wrong for Christians to keep asking to be forgiven on a daily basis? ( over and over). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My grand-ma used to tell me, "Don't you ever go to sleep without asking God to forgive any sin you commited that day. In case He calls you home while you're sleeping, you Must be ready"! I Love and miss that lady!!
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 29 May, 2011 01:19 PM
Ok...you got me thinking, Two! Haha! I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd like to ask you to elaborate about these scriptures please...
Matthew 6
7�When you pray, don�t babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think their prayers are answered merely by repeating their words again and again. 8Don�t be like them, for your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him! 9Pray like this:
Our Father in heaven,
may your name be kept holy.
10May your Kingdom come soon.
May your will be done on earth,
as it is in heaven.
11Give us today the food we need,a
12and forgive us our sins,
as we have forgiven those who sin against us.
13And don�t let us yield to temptation,
but rescue us from the evil one.
14�If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you. 15But if you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins.
I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I can see part of your point here - Like where He says not to babble on repeating your words. I always took that to mean repeating the same words over and over in the same prayer at the same time. To me, this would go along with Jesus saying to let your Yes be Yes and your No be No. Like asking for forgiveness once in a prayer (like chevy said his grandmother said to do) instead of saying, "Forgive me, Forgive me, Forgive me, Forgive me," etc. Are you saying that asking for forgiveness more than once in a lifetime is being unfaithful?
Following along in your thoughts, would it be fruitful to acknowledge our sins when we pray and then thank God for already having forgave them?
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 29 May, 2011 02:26 PM
Hello:
Some Scripture concernng this:
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Mat 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
Mar 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mar 2:6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
Mar 2:7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
Mar 2:8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?
Mar 2:9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
Mar 2:10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)
Mar 2:11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.
Mar 2:12 And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.
Act 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Heb 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Heb 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Heb 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Since forgiveness of sin(s)requires blood to be shed,Yeshua went to Calvary just one time.
This one time sacrifice satisfied the judgement and wrath of EL-Shaddai/God Almighty;Once and for all time.
Therefore,forgivenes is completely based upon the shed blood,and death of Yeshua.
David understood this.
Psa 32:1 A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Psa 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
Psa 32:3 When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long.
Psa 32:4 For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.
Psa 32:5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.
Psa 51:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba. Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
Psa 51:2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
Psa 51:3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
Psa 51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psa 51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
Psa 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
Psa 51:8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
Psa 51:9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Psa 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
Psa 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 29 May, 2011 02:43 PM
I see your point, TS, in that we do not need to repent unto salvation every time we sin. When we believe in our hearts and confess with our mouth, we are saved according to Romans 10: 9-10.
Ephesians 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God�s possession�to the praise of his glory.
Not to cause division or strife either, but some real good study and questions here and I feel that there is another part of our walk in the Lord and that is fellowship :glow:
It�s conditional and concerns our position with Him now, while we�re on Earth. This part of our relationship is governed by our willingness to confess and be forgiven for the sins we commit after we�re saved.
By failing to confess these sins as we go, we place ourselves out of fellowship with God and deprive ourselves of blessings we might have other wise had.
The old saying from Love Story says "love means never having to say you are sorry" is not true in my opinion.
I don't think it means we get saved all over again or that God erases our names from the Book of Life if we sin and don't ask forgiveness. But, it does humble us and keep our hearts tender towards the hurt we cause Him and those around us.
Could there be a dual application to the prodigal son's story? I backslid before, and felt dead in my walk with the Lord and I surely did weep and repent when I felt His arms welcoming back into His presence. I don't think I was "unsaved" but I got lost in the worldly elements and flesh for sure.
�But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.
21 �The son said to him, �Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.�
Luke 15: 22~ �But the father said to his servants, �Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let�s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.� So they began to celebrate.
Is this written to sinners or saints?
I John 2:1~ My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
Should we be repentant, transparent and humble to receive from God, since pride goes before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall?
James 5:16~Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
Can our prayers be hindered because of unconfessed sin? I know this is during the law period, but could it apply to the body of Christ as far as sinning against one and other? I tend to see dual apps. in many scriptures.
Matthew 5:22-
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.
"Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.
Prayers hindered because of sin~
I Peter 3: 7~Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.
So, I agree as far as salvation, and maybe that is what you are addressing here, TS.
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 29 May, 2011 03:07 PM
I'm gonna faint... just kidding. :laugh:
To add to what browneyedgirl posted, but more specifically vss 14 and 15... "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." I have this question... If you do not forgive men their trespasses, and if the Believer has been forgiven of all trespasses and as you say, "the forgiveness of your sins are not dependent on your asking for forgiveness", then what sin is it that "neither will your Father forgive"? Did that make sense?
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 29 May, 2011 03:08 PM
Chevy, putting me at odds with your Godly already gone to heaven Grandmother just ain't right!....lol.
I am not saying your Grandmother was wrong; we are only accountable for the light we have.
You gotta ask yourself which which way is freedom, the finished work of the cross, the abundant life, the new creation :
1) At the end of the day asking God to forgive the sins you committed that day so if you die in your sleep you wont go to hell.
Or...
2) At the end of the day thanking God that you are no longer under condemnation for your sins and they are all forgiven; praising God for what He has done for you. Then confessing your sins to God and asking for God to grant you true repentance in these areas of your life; a true u turn, asking for help; supernatural insight and strength, wisdom and guidance so you don't repeat them.
Why ask for forgiveness that has already been given? Do you think God might say no? Why not take God at His word that ALL your sins are forgiven and get on to the matter at hand; namely actively seeking God to how to deal with this sin in your life.
Here is a crude example :
Let's say you have a child that keeps making the same mistake over and over. Would you want them to come to you each time out of fear of punishment and say I am sorry. Or come to you confident that you love them no matter what and confess their mistake and ask you to help them so they don't repeat it.
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 29 May, 2011 03:28 PM
Joey wrote -"By failing to confess these sins as we go, we place ourselves out of fellowship with God and deprive ourselves of blessings we might have other wise had. The old saying from Love Story says "love means never having to say you are sorry" is not true in my opinion. I don't think it means we get saved all over again or that God erases our names from the Book of Life if we sin and don't ask forgiveness. But, it does humble us and keep our hearts tender towards the hurt we cause Him and those around us."
Agreed. And does repentance of sin in the Believers life = to asking forgiveness of that sin? When we do sin against God, I believe we should repent of that sin, which for me, always leads to seeking forgiveness.
Joey wrote - "Should we be repentant, transparent and humble to receive from God, since pride goes before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall? James 5:16~Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. Can our prayers be hindered because of unconfessed sin? I know this is during the law period, but could it apply to the body of Christ as far as sinning against one and other? I tend to see dual apps. in many scriptures."
I was always taught that unconfessed sin in a Believers life can/does hinder our prayers; thus the need for Christ when approaching the Throne. Not only that, but as Joey said, it does humble us. It reminds me of who I am and who God is, and why I need a Saviour; not because of the sin of unbelief, as I am a saved Believer, but of the everyday sins that can creep into ones life. It just seems 'right' to ask the Lord for forgiveness and strength to overcome.
I understand what you're saying, Two, but heck, you know I always have questions. :laugh:
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 29 May, 2011 03:30 PM
Browneyedgirl and Saved, you are both asking about the same thing:
"" I have this question... If you do not forgive men their trespasses, and if the Believer has been forgiven of all trespasses and as you say, "the forgiveness of your sins are not dependent on your asking for forgiveness", then what sin is it that "neither will your Father forgive"? Did that make sense?"
--------------------------
Yes, it makes perfect sense. I would say this verse has to be one of the top verses that cause a person to go 'totally introspective'!..lol
First let us look at what this verse does Not say : You can work your way into heaven or earn forgiveness simply by forgiving others. --- I think we all agree on that?
The verse days "forgive us our trespasses AS we forgive those who trespass against us".--- did you get that? --- the verse is not asking for the forgiveness of trespasses, but rather asking for 'How' they are forgiven in a way that makes a person acknowledge how God forgives them and are expected to forgive others accordingly. This verse is a masterpiece reality check!
The only unpardonsble sin is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. If a person continually rejects the Holy Spirit's leading to forgive others and lives a life exemplifying unforgiveness they are most likely not a Christian and therefore not really participating in the forgiveness offered by God.
