Why won't those that believe wake up and love James and tell him he is in total denial of the word of God? Reformed theology denies the very foundation of the word of God in saying man does not have the ability to do what the word of God tells him to do. By the way there is no place for Jesus in reformation theology, even on this site I have heard it more than once they have the basics, no they don't they totally deny the basics. The foundation of Christianity is built on faith from the word of God, not the word of men about the word of God.
Twosparrows said
James you asked: so shall you receive: John 1:10-13
especially ~ "But to all who did receive Him" and "He gave them the right to be children of God tothose who believe in His name"
James replies:
This is a good Scripture, and in no way disagrees with the Order of Salvation, or the "Ordo Salutis".
This Scripture says that the ones who received Jesus, were accepted by God and forgiven.
It does NOT say "they had the ability to chose".
This is another "whosoever" verse.
NO ONE who repents and trusts in Jesus will be turned away!
But the Bible ALSO plainly says that NO ONE has the ability to repent and trust in Jesus UNLESS God GRANTS it, or DRAWS them, or GIVES THEM the GIFT OF FAITH.
And what I am saying to you, is NOTHING NEW!
And since there has been so much time spent on this group lately slamming Calvin and Luther, and the Reformation in General, here is something from a THOUSAND YEARS earlier than the Reformation:
If anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, "What have you that you did not receive?" (1 Cor. 4:7), and, "But by the grace of God I am what I am" (1 Cor. 15:10). If anyone affirms that we can form any right opinion or make any right choice which relates to the salvation of eternal life, or that we can be saved by assent to the preaching of the gospel through our natural powers without the effectual work of the Holy Spirit, who makes all whom He calls gladly and willingly assent to and believe in the truth, he is led astray from the plain teaching of Scripture by exalting the natural ability of man, and does not understand the voice of God who says in the Gospel, "For apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5), and the word of the Apostle, "Not that we are competent of ourselves to claim anything as coming from us; our competence is from God" (2 Cor. 3:5).
I see that you are at it again,believing that man is able to accomplish the following,apart from ABBA having mercy upon a person.
Trust Christ to protect them from the wrath of GOD against sin.
Repent,of sin which follows trusting Christ,not before.
Responding rightly to the providential will of GOD.
Obey the Word of GOD.
Loving GOD with all of your heart,soul,mind and strength,and your neighbor as yourself.
Believe the Gosple.
Proclaim the Gospel,and make disciples of others.
And Worship the LORD in spirit and in truth.
There is so much more;
Yet without ABBA having mercy upon myself,by having the Holy Spirit draw me to His Son.
I would be under the judgement of GOD ALMIGHTY forever.
Phillip,when will you admit that you have no power to believe the Gospel,nor can you be trusting Christ without the Holy Spirit empowering you unto this.
I hope that you will begin believing the Gospel and not the words of the men that might be telling you nonsense.
If you want nonsense,then there is a bridge in Brooklyn,NY that i would like to sell to you.
I have been studing this for some time now. Calvinism has just a hand full of Scriptures to support their doctrine; the rest are interpreted in light of their doctrine through out of context renderings of the verses. Even the ones that support Calvinism can be fairly interpreted another way.
However....there is enough support in the hand full of Scriptures to alert one there is something going on behind the scenes. When Scripture is taken as a whole and the observation of life applied it is clear there is some kind of Election going on. Which brings me to a new can of worms.
It is clear from Scripture that spiritual forces from outside man as God originally created him has introduced corruption into mankind. Scripture also states God has seed and Satan has seed. Jesus said flesh begets flesh and spirit begets spirit.
I know Satan is not as God, however I do not know exactly how powerful he is. Scripture indicates he has children in this world. Is it only what one believes that makes them a child of God or Satan? Or is it something deeper in the very nature of a person as offspring from a particular seed or combination of seeds that makes them God's or Satan's children?
Because of who God is; even a person born with the corrupted seed of Satan is given the choice to believe, however if they stay true to their nature they will not choose God and will be without excuse. In the midst of all this corruption it appears that God has his children also, they will choose him. It seems that God has subjected His creation to frustration so that the sons of God would be revealed.
I don't think I can buy into the theory or thought that satan himself has fathered children, but you're saying that if that were true, the child would have no choice but to be as satan?
We are called children of God by faith in Christ Jesus [Gal 3:26], not because He 'fathered' us. I believe those that are said to have the devil as their father, has to do with their unbelief or of not having the truth in them as Jesus said in John 8:44. I wonder too how that thought would affect, if at all, God saying He made man in His image and after His likeness?
Saved, you have to get your head out of the physical and wrap it around the Spiritual. I am definitely not saying this is the answer or I have it figured out. But how would YOU explain the parable of the wheat and tares? The seed is what it is before it grows. There are plenty of other Scriptures, however this one comes right out and bam! Drops a bomb, but few people even notice. Do me a favor will you? Read the parable and explain it as you see it...thanks
Two, I'm trying to wrap my head any which way I can in order to consider some of this. I can understand what you're saying and see it in certain Scripture [the sons of God stuff], but some of it, like thinking the possibility of satan actually fathering children is so far out that it makes my head spin. I end up with too many questions and fewer answers.
I'll look at the wheat and tares parable again and explain it as I see it tomorrow after work. Have a blessed evening.
I'm on a short break and thought to pop in for a quick minute, when I saw this thread... uh, twosparrow, maybe you can explain this parable, I am very curious as to how it fits in with your comment... when compared to what Jesus says parable means.
The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares - Matthew Chapter 13:24-30
24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: �The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares (weeds) among the wheat and went his way. But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. So the servants of the owner came and said to him, �Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?� He said to them, �An enemy has done this.� The servants said to him, �Do you want us then to go and gather them up?� But he said, �No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, �First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn."
God planted the good seeds first, the good seed is the sons of God, then a enemy snuck in and planted bad seed among the good seed, the bad seed is the sons of the evil one. The seeds are what they are when planted; a wheat seed does not grow a tare plant and a tare plant does not grow a wheat plant.
This does not deny free choice, but rather when given free choice a seed will be true to its nature and produce what it is.
Please don't try to make this about doctrines or false teachers or the church. Jesus said the field is the world, the good seed: sons of God planted by God, the bad seed: sons of the evil one planted by the enemy.
This parable is about how satan works though people who reject Christ these are the tares, they pretend they have been converted when they are not. The enemy is satan and how he sends forth those who hate Christ to plant false teachings into the minds and hearts of those who do not know God or His word for themselves.
The good seed is the word of God that is read studied or heard, which bring about believers, and the word (good seed) that is to be sown(preached and taught) into the world to the lost about Jesus Christ, whom God sent for the salvation of all people.
The beleiver and the seed (word of God to goes out and produces good fruit which is seatbalishing faith to belive in the winning of souls for the kingdom of God.
In this parable Jesus lets it be know that the wheat and the tares should continue to grow together and in the end He will be the one who will separate (judge) them, the good from the evil. This parable is indeed about false teachers in the world which is of the devil, and good teahcings that should be among Christian believers trying to win souls.
False teachings weaken the new believers faith, and prevents many of the lost from the church and the hearing of the true doctrine of Christ, and all these thing the wheat(good) and the tare (evil) will all be judged when Jesus returns..can't get around this fact.
The seed is the word of God, or the seed is the evil word of satan unto disbelief, which is planted in the hearts of those who reject Christ, through false teaching or doctrine that many people believe.
Children of the kingdom(wheat) are believers in Christ. Children of the satan or of the wicked one (tare or weeds) are those who reject Jesus Chirst.
Jesus explains all of this in verses 37-43 of the same chapter of Matthew 13.
ET, Jesus explains this parable and it seems you would argue with him!
:laugh:
Jesus SPECIFICALLY identifies the good seed and the bad seed and the field and you redefine them as you see fit? Redefine them to fit your preconcieved ideas?
Instead of rewriting Scripture to match your ideas, why don't you search out ideas that match Scripture.
