Author Thread: Did John Calvin have people killed!
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Did John Calvin have people killed!
Posted : 18 May, 2011 11:11 AM

This following article is from a brother who was as he claimed an Athiest,before trusing Christ to save him from the wrath of GOD.



There are other articles about this.



What about this,is this true?



Did Calvin Kill Servetus?

Hi folks,



The last two blogs have generated a bit of a stir. Good! If what I�m saying about the centrality of Calvary-looking love is right, we need a major paradigm shift on how we view orthodoxy � which in turn should effect who we see as the �heroes� of orthodoxy.



My contention is that, while we can and should continue to appreciate the theological insights of people who were involved in torturing and killing people, we should not regard them as heroes of orthodoxy � for they were guilty of the worst heresy imaginable. If we continue to esteem killers as heroes, we can�t help but have our vision of the beautiful Kingdom polluted. Of course, none of our heroes are perfect. But I would think, at the very least, they should not be guilty of the worst heresy imaginable. If we wouldn't make a person who denied the Trinity a hero of orthodoxy, we shouldn't make anyone who kills in Jesus' name a hero either.



A few have questioned my claim that Calvin was responsible for Michael Servetus� murder. One person argued that Calvin actually tried to stop his execution.



It�s true that Calvin didn�t want Servetus burned alive. He advocated for him to be beheaded. But there�s no reputable Calvin scholar I know of who denies Calvin wanted him executed.



Calvin himself had told his colleague Farel that if Servetus ever returned to Geneva, he�d �never permit him to depart alive, provided my authority be of any avail.� After the burning, Calvin said, "Many people have accused me of such ferocious cruelty that (they allege) I would like to kill again the man I have destroyed. Not only am I indifferent to their comments, but I rejoice in the fact that they spit in my face." Elsewhere Calvin said, "Whoever shall now contend that it is unjust to put heretics and blasphemers to death will knowingly and willingly incur their very guilt.�



Even Calvin�s staunchest defenders (such as B. B. Warfield) grant that Calvin was ultimately responsible for Servetus� death. They simply minimize his culpability by saying he was �a man of his times.�



I regard this response to be very weak. Jesus and the early Christians lived in very violent times yet refused to conform to them. And there were many Christians during Calvin's time (the 16th century) who argued that the use of violence is inconsistent with the teachings of the New Testament � including Calvin�s former friend Sebastian Castellio and all the early Anabaptists. Not only this, but by most accounts, Calvin�s enthusiasm for the use of force to uphold what he regarded as right doctrine and behavior went far beyond most other religious leaders of his time � including, very often, his own Geneva council.



For those who are interested in doing further reading on this topic, here�s a few works I�ve read that I�d recommend:



* Roland Bainton, The Hunted Heretic. I was fascinated with Servetus when I was at Yale and had a number of talks with the elderly Bainton on his book during this time. This man was a walking encyclopedia on the Reformation. (As a side note, he was close to 90 when I met him, yet was sharp as a whip and rode a bike all around town!)



*John Fulton, Michael Servetus: Humanist and Martyr. An excellent overview of Servetus� life, thought and death (which Fulton sees as a martyrdom)



*Perez Zagorin, How the Idea of Religious Toleration Came to the West. A very scholarly work that includes a good section on how public outrage toward Calvin's murder of Servetus contributed to Christianity finally become a religion that tolerated religious differences. Sebastian Castellio played a major role in creating this outrage.



*Bernard Cottret, Calvin: A Biography. Argues that Calvin was directly responsible for 38 executions in Geneva (other scholars argue he was at least indirectly responsible for as many as 58).



*Robert M. Kingdon, Adultery and Divorce in Calvin's Geneva. Kingdon is one of the foremost scholars in the world on Geneva under Calvin. This book, published by Harvard Press, relies entirely on original sources and presents an incredibly harsh picture of Geneva under Calvin�s rule. For example, a number of children were imprisoned, tortured and even executed for being disrespectful to parents (though I'm not certain I got this information from this work).



My point in all this is not to pick on Calvin. His defenders are right in at least one respect: Almost all segments of Christianity were killing enemies at this time, and Christianity had been engaged in this sort of barbarism for a thousand years by the time Calvin came on the scene. Tragically, Calvin's murder is not at all unique in the history of this religion. My point is rather that we need to clearly distinguish the Kingdom of God from all such barbarism. And to do this, we must stop making heroes of Christians who killed enemies rather than loving and serving them, as Jesus taught.



Be a peacemaker,



Aloha



ps;



Matthew 5



43 �You have heard that it was said, �Love your neighborh and hate your enemy.�

44 But I tell you: Love your enemiesi and pray for those who persecute you,

45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?

47 And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?

48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

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Did John Calvin have people killed!
Posted : 18 May, 2011 11:19 AM

I am assuming that you are truckerGeorge.

David, Moses and Paul (Saul of tarus) murdered

Do we disown them now?

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Did John Calvin have people killed!
Posted : 18 May, 2011 11:25 AM

Well, I guess a more direct approach is needed!



NO, John Calvin did NOT have people killed!



He did not hire any assassins, he did not incite riots.



He did not have ANY authority in Geneva, when the BONEHEAD named Servetus, stupidly showed up in that city.



the CITY COUNCIL, WHOSE JOB IT WAS TO ENFORCE THE LAWS, put Servetus to death because he was publicly teaching heresy, and refused to recant.



CALVIN begged the council for a lesser penalty, and the COUNCIL IGNORED Calvin.



Calvin PRAYED WITH Servetus IN HIS JAIL CELL before the execution.



There are MANY FALSE AND MISLEADING articles on the internet, concerning the Christian faith, and you just found one.



So the answer to your question is NO.





In Christ,





James

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Did John Calvin have people killed!
Posted : 18 May, 2011 04:08 PM

Dennis ~ :applause:

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Did John Calvin have people killed!
Posted : 18 May, 2011 08:08 PM

Dennis there is great big difference between Moses, David, and Saul, do you know what that was?



You have taken a truth to justify a lie.

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Did John Calvin have people killed!
Posted : 19 May, 2011 12:09 PM

I've read numerous accounts in times past on this and the greater body of evidence points to, yes, he did do it even that he requested green wood so it would burn hotter and longer.



there is no excuse for this sort of action, death penalty issues aside. however, we must keep in mind, only slightly ameliorating the situational guilt, those were the times they lived in.



there seems to have been two issues similar in nature happening at about the same time.



one was the pagans had to ease up and join the new state church and



two, while the pagans were having their own little blood bath the Replacement (Supersessionist) Theologists were busy stealing all the blessings God gave the Jews leaving them only with the curses (Paul alluded to this in Romans);



all of which began a two thousand year holocaust for the Jews which, according to Catholic thought, ended in the 1960's when the Pope officially ended the Inquisition and had its office doors in the Vatican locked, though it is still there intact.



Nonetheless, we know it did not truly end there for it is for them the Tribulation awaits that they might be brought to God as His (still) Chosen People once they have submitted their prideful hearts to Him.

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