Author	Thread: Thinking the "Rapture" might be the biggest heresy in 2000 years?
matth633 View Profile History	Thinking the "Rapture" might be the biggest heresy in 2000 years? Posted : 16 May, 2011 07:24 AM I greatly appreciate the Asuza Street outpouring. Being penacostal for a few decades, I don't know what I would do without contemporary worship, and the revival of the gifts. But then there's the other side of the coin. The church goes from overmanaged to unmanaged with tons of people being added to the Kingdom, but half tons of people being hurt with bad doctrine and policy. As I get older, I am really trying to not argue with my brothers and sisters on non-salvation issues, but recently had a "rapture" advocate clearly tell me that "if I did not believe in it, that I would not be going". Wow, that was a revelation on how far this thing can go. Not only are unbelievers going to be "left behind", but also believers who don't accept or understand the rapture theory are also going to be left. I had just finished telling her that if she was not in line to get on the ark, that I would grab her hand and get her aboard, and trusted that if she were flying off, that she would do the same for me. She sure made clear to me the extent of grace of her God. So, I thought maybe I should go back over some of the basics, and for me, 2 simple rules are, "show me where God did it in the Bible", and "is this concept simple enough for a junior high student to understand". It seems that there are only 2 places where God took people out of the earth, Enoch, and Elijah, and neither were in any iminent danger. So there are hundreds of examples of God taking His kids through the troubles of this earth, and so far none where He has taken them out of it. And regarding the "when", it just has to many holes to make simple sense. So, the whole earth is more full of fear than at any time in the history of mankind, and there is virtually no-one preaching a solid message of how God protects His kids through trouble, and a huge number of big names saying we're not going to be around. I'm thinking this is the "peace and safety" message that is going to be coming as part of the birthpangs. Post Reply
View Profile History	Thinking the "Rapture" might be the biggest heresy in 2000 years? Posted : 16 May, 2011 08:29 AM Satan loves to disrupt, dispute simple bible teachings to bring confusion and to get the body of Christ eyes of the lord. There is no question as to the integrity of the word of God and the topic of the rapture. Post Reply
View Profile History	Thinking the "Rapture" might be the biggest heresy in 2000 years? Posted : 16 May, 2011 08:44 AM Matt, for a long time I believed in a pre-trib rapture because that's what I had been taught. However, in recent months I began to question that the teaching could possibly be a false one. I'm not sure about something that at one time I was Positive was the right theory. I've been praying God will show me the Truth concerning this. Thanks for your post. I still feel conflicted on the Rapture teaching. I'm not so sure anymore. Post Reply
View Profile History	Thinking the "Rapture" might be the biggest heresy in 2000 years? Posted : 16 May, 2011 08:47 AM matt if you will open your mail up so i can mail you then i can give you some people who are preaching the message you are talking about people are not preaching,,just so you can send it out or use it to show others GOOD NEWS,,,one guy is scot dryer and the other is michael rood,,you can get both free teaching on-line,,,there is also a wonderful guy named Arthur Bailey he is awesome and again free teaching,,,great stuff there,,mail me and i can give you the site names,,peace in MESSIAH brother Post Reply
OutOfStep View Profile History	Thinking the "Rapture" might be the biggest heresy in 2000 years? Posted : 16 May, 2011 10:31 AM There are many things that are taught by many different churches, all with One God. I'm a Catholic; not only am I. Raised Catholic, but the way I pray, and the over-all outlook on God is most common with my personal interpretation of the scriptures. So what should I think when I visit my dads protestant church? Do I sit in fear for the souls of everyone there? Do I stand up and challenge my father and his belief system in a public forum? No, I see what's in these peoples hearts, I see that God is talking to them. I see that God has a message for them, that on a personal level they have a personal relationship with Jesus, and that He is talking to their hearts. Its not up to me to validate what He and they are saying. He is talking to them because He is having the relationship that is tailor made to THEIR hearts, just like He's done with me. God tells you the same thing He's telling everyone? Please. His contract is with you, no matter when you show up for work. He pays what you agree upon; why are you worried about how much He pays the others? Its PERSONAL. If I thought that people were deliberately mis-leading their flock with evil in their hearts, war would be waged. But when I see their hearts, I see Him there. As for blatant bastardization of the Word, I have faith that He kept the intent of the Bible through numerous interpretations, so how hard is it to believe that His hand might be in this, too? Is the message meant to generate money, hate, or fear? Do the followers of this movement deviate in a blasphemous way from Gods true will? I'm not sure I can say, so I won't. Post Reply
View Profile History	Thinking the "Rapture" might be the biggest heresy in 2000 years? Posted : 16 May, 2011 01:15 PM Hey Matt: I see that you are a thinker,and one that wants to know the truth. Let us see what Christ siad about two people that are used to try and validate the rapture. Luke 17:26-30 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. I we take notice we see that NOAH was in the 'ARK'. The ark is a type of Christ. noah went through the judgement of GOD against the unbielf of the people,yet NOAH and those within never left this planet. not only that but NOAH and his family were still SINNING. NOAH gets drunk,Ham does something dispicable to his dad. Ham is cursed,were is sin and cursing being done in the New creation? Lot,he and his family have to be dragged out of Sodom. Lot compromises his position by not protecting his wife. Lot gets drunk and his unbelieving daughters have s_x with him. They both give birth to two of the enemies of Israel, The Ammonites,the Moabites. Where do we see this within the New creation. The church uses the Greek word 'Harpodzo' for the English word 'Raoture'. This word is used numerous times in the New Covenant. John 10:12 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than alld; no one can snatch (HARPODZO) them out of my Father�s hand. 30I and the Father are one.� Acts 8:30 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away (HARPODZO), and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing Are these two Scriptures talking about the RAPTURE,obviously not. Here we have the church thinking this is about the rapture. Revelation 3:7-10 7 These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open. 8 I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. 9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars�I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. 10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. In verse 10 we have the English word 'KEPT', and 'KEEP'. Bothe of these words are the Greek word, "tēreō" Number 5083 in Strongs and thayers concordances. If you follow this word to its root,you will be quite surprized to know what it has to say. tēreō Thayer Definition: 1) to attend to carefully, take care of 1a) to guard 1b) metaphorically to keep, one in the state in which he is 1c) to observe 1d) to reserve: to undergo something Part of Speech: verb A Related Word by Thayer�s/Strong�s Number: from teros (a watch, perhaps akin to G2334) Citing in TDNT: 8:140, 1174 Now let us not be swallowing the blue pill with the red kool-aid;Or is it the red pill with the blue kool-aid. Or is it the orange pill with the green kool-aid. Let us stop listening too much to men,and begin to investigate these matters for ourselves. Knowing just a little Hebrew and Greek can go a long way to understanding the truth. 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Aloha Post Reply
View Profile History	Thinking the "Rapture" might be the biggest heresy in 2000 years? Posted : 16 May, 2011 01:52 PM There's no heresy in the rapture - Christ is DEFINITELY coming back and when He does, nobody is going to miss it!!! Whether He takes us first, later or last is His decision and makes absolutely no difference to our salvation though, so quit worrying over it and pay no attention to those who quite literally turn it into a "life and death" issue. Such distractions are not of God. Post Reply
View Profile History	Thinking the "Rapture" might be the biggest heresy in 2000 years? Posted : 16 May, 2011 02:34 PM I think most people believe in the "rapture". 1Thessalonians 4:17~ Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. ~~~~ verse 18 tells us to comfort one another with these words. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ All the arguments or debates I've ever heard have not been over IF it's going to happen but WHEN. Pre, Mid,or Post Tribulation. And personally, I'm not sure ! All I know is I Want to be ready! Post Reply
View Profile History	Thinking the "Rapture" might be the biggest heresy in 2000 years? Posted : 16 May, 2011 04:43 PM "There's no heresy in the rapture - Christ is DEFINITELY coming back and when He does, nobody is going to miss it!!!" Amen! I've argued with Pretribbers who say Posttribbers will be left behind because of their view; some even go so far as to make it a salvation issue. And I've argued with Posttribbers who say Pretribbers will be deceived by the antichrist and/or lose their faith because they put all their faith into a pretrib rapture and won't know what to do if/when they find themselves in the Great Trib. Our salvation has never, nor will it ever be based on our end-time view. And Christ will keep us regardless our end-time view. Why people can get so ugly over this issue and allow it to divide us is beyond me. Post Reply
matth633 View Profile History	Thinking the "Rapture" might be the biggest heresy in 2000 years? Posted : 16 May, 2011 06:04 PM Wow!!! This was a really surprising response. I really didn't want to start an argument, but thought it might go there and it did not!!!!!!Yea... I have just been getting a bit overwhelmed at the preponderance of "pre" teaching and wondered if the whole world has gone off it's rocker. It probably has, but it's refreshing to me to find that there are a considerable number of others planning on riding the storm out in the ark. And sorry I did not preface with "pre" The damage I see in the "pre" besides twisting scripture is that it generates fear out of current events, and only the truth will set one free, not false doctrine, so the end result of "pre" is more and more fear. Thank you all! Post Reply
View Profile History	Thinking the "Rapture" might be the biggest heresy in 2000 years? Posted : 16 May, 2011 06:20 PM If I leave my address will one of you feed my horses after the rapture? Btw, I have a Bible hidden in the wall, you might need it! Post Reply

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