The following Scripture has been taken and could be taught wrongly.
What could the Holy Spirit be saying with these verses.
.
Ephesians 4:7-12
Wherefore, he saith, 'Having gone up on high he led captive captivity, and gave gifts to men,' --
Aand that, he went up, what is it except that he also went down first to the lower parts of the earth?
He who went down is the same also who went up far above all the heavens, that He may fill all things --
And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as proclaimers of good news, and some as shepherds and teachers, unto the perfecting of the saints, for a work of ministration, for a building up of the body of the Christ,
Interesting when you see this in the Greek language.
Ahhhh the proof text for the 5 fold ministry. Sadly, using 5-6th grade grammar as a key component of proper interpretation, there are only 4 offices.
But putting that aside, I've spent decades hearing about these offices, and trying to ignore the large portion of the Body of Christ that says they were only for a season. I would really like to believe they are for today as well, but am not seeing very many who fit in the shoes of the first 11.
I believe that i wil be opening a huge can of worms over these verses,but ask me if i care,hahahaha,NOPE.
Here goes.
I want to be looking at verse 8 mostly and each word individually.
Then,i will post the appropriate Greek defintions,
I will not forget about the context.
When you begin to throw the rocks make sure they are pointy,the round one just leave bruises.
Ephesians 4:7-16
Here is the entire context:
Eph 4:7 and to each one of you was given the grace, according to the measure of the gift of Christ,
Eph 4:8 wherefore, he saith, `Having gone up on high he led captive captivity, and gave gifts to men,' --
Eph 4:9 and that, he went up, what is it except that he also went down first to the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 he who went down is the same also who went up far above all the heavens, that He may fill all things--
Eph 4:11 and He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as proclaimers of good news, and some as shepherds and teachers,
Eph 4:12 unto the perfecting of the saints, for a work of ministration, for a building up of the body of the Christ,
Eph 4:13 till we may all come to the unity of the faith and of the recognition of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to a measure of stature of the fulness of the Christ,
Eph 4:14 that we may no more be babes, tossed and borne about by every wind of the teaching, in the sleight of men, in craftiness, unto the artifice of leading astray,
Eph 4:15 and, being true in love, we may increase to Him in all things, who is the head--the Christ;
Eph 4:16 from whom the whole body, being fitly joined together and united, through the supply of every joint, according to the working in the measure of each single part, the increase of the body doth make for the building up of itself in love.
Let us concentrate on verse 8 for a short time.
Eph 4:8 wherefore, he saith, `Having gone up on high he led captive captivity, and gave gifts to men
Gave:(The shortened definition)
G1325
δίδωμι
didōmi
Thayer Definition:
1) to give
2) to give something to someone
2a) of one�s own accord to give one something, to his advantage
2a1) to bestow a gift
This word says that these gifts cannot be inherited,
Nor can one feel these are from GOD.
They cannot be handed down from dad to his son.
They cannot be earned by going to school for a degree.
They cannot be bought,or worked for.
These gifts are given by the will and hand of GOD;
Yet i believe that it is the priviledge of the body of believers, to be recognizing these gifts upon the intended persons life,
And making htis known to the entire body.
Gifts:
G1390
δόμα
doma
Thayer Definition:
1) a gift
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer�s/Strong�s Number: from the base of G1325
G1325
δίδωμι
didōmi
Thayer Definition:
1) to give
2) to give something to someone
2a) of one�s own accord to give one something, to his advantage
2a1) to bestow a gift
2b) to grant, give to one asking, let have
2c) to supply, furnish, necessary things
2d) to give over, deliver
2d1) to reach out, extend, present
2d2) of a writing
2d3) to give over to one�s care, intrust, commit
2d3a) something to be administered
2d3b) to give or commit to some one something to be religiously observed
2e) to give what is due or obligatory, to pay: wages or reward
2f) to furnish, endue
3) to give
3a) to cause, profuse, give forth from one�s self
3a1) to give, hand out lots
3b) to appoint to an office
Remember these are gifts,these are not earened.
Unto=To,or the
Here is the big surprize:
The Greek word for 'MEN' IS:'ANTHROPOS'
This word is not just for MEN,but this also includes 'WOMEN'
1b) to distinguish man from beings of a different order
1b1) of animals and plants
1b2) of from God and Christ
1b3) of the angels
1c) with the added notion of weakness, by which man is led into a mistake or prompted to sin
1d) with the adjunct notion of contempt or disdainful pity
1e) with reference to two fold nature of man, body and soul
1f) with reference to the two fold nature of man, the corrupt and the truly Christian man, conformed to the nature of God
1g) with reference to sex, a male
2) indefinitely, someone, a man, one
3) in the plural, people
4) joined with other words, merchantman
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer�s/Strong�s Number: from G435 and ops (the countenance, from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being
Citing in TDNT: 1:364, 59
Now the list of gifts that have been given to both men and women are as follows.
Yes this is in context,give me a break.
Eph 4:11 and He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as proclaimers of good news, and some as shepherds and teachers,
Yeah,i know all about the Scripture concerning women teaching and usurping authority.
Lets see this also.
1st Timothy 1:2:11-12
Can some of the Sisters here look this up in the Greek language,you might be surprized what the Holy Spirit might be saying.
1Ti 2:11 Let a woman in quietness learn in all subjection,
1Ti 2:12 and a woman I do not suffer to teach, nor to rule a husband, but to be in quietness,
Now let us recap this.
When Christ ascended on high,He gave gifts unto MEN and WOMEN.
Eph 4:11 and He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as proclaimers of good news, and some as shepherds and teachers,
Eph 4:12 unto the perfecting of the saints, for a work of ministration, for a building up of the body of the Christ,
Eph 4:13 till we may all come to the unity of the faith and of the recognition of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to a measure of stature of the fulness of the Christ,
Eph 4:14 that we may no more be babes, tossed and borne about by every wind of the teaching, in the sleight of men, in craftiness, unto the artifice of leading astray,
Eph 4:15 and, being true in love, we may increase to Him in all things, who is the head--the Christ;
Eph 4:16 from whom the whole body, being fitly joined together and united, through the supply of every joint, according to the working in the measure of each single part, the increase of the body doth make for the building up of itself in love.
I have commited myself unto the wisdom,Grace,Mercy and Love of GOD in this matter.
This is why I have been stressing to get back to the Original languages.
I hope this might be an answer to you question Bornagain.
There are those that believe that there is a FIVE fold Ministry,that only a few choice people will ever have;
Yet when we read this in Greek and in context there is no such animal spoken of within these Scriptures.
Those that believe this just want to be Lording over the others in PRIDE.
These gifts belong to GOD,and He bestows them as He wills,to whoever He wants to bestow these to.
I would say that those saying they have 'THE FIVE FOLD MINISTRY' could probably be fooling themselves and those gullable enough to believe their nonsense.
Paul had become all things to all people.
Whatever the people needed Paul was readily available to be used in the hand of the Holy Spirit.
Whethe to Teach
Prophesy
Encourage,Exhort,Rebuke,
Disciple,and anything else the people would have needed.
Are we Christians here in America (oooopps;the Homeland hahahaha).
Are we as ready to be used as the Holy Spirit would use us,
Or do we say,I happen to be a _ _ _ _ _ _(put the gift here).
We limit and grieve the Holy Spirit by not makng ourselves available,this is because we FEAR being used of GOD.
Because we neither know Him,nor do we know the power of His ressurection.
When i say we,i say this to those that this pertains to.
This being so,Christ stands outside the door of the body of believers when they meet together, begging to be let inside.
Instead of teaching the people the correct use of this Scrpture,They use this Scripture which is to be a rebuke to the body,this is being wrongly used by men to Evangelize the people when they gather together.
The body of believers does not need to be evangelized,rather they need to be taught and encouraged unto Love,faith and good works.
