I wonder if Hamaz understands the difference between the Jews of Israel and the Arab Jews of Palastine, outside of political differences?
Am I missing the mark to understand that the Bible teaches that Palastine once called Philistine, was Canaan the Promise Land, which is Israel the land God promised to the Jews? Or do I have this all wrong?...
Brothers, first let me remind you about our patriarch- Ibrahim/Abraham. He was born in the city of Ur of the Chaldeans (present day Iraq). He traveled 500 miles to Haran (now southeast Turkey) with his family and stayed there until his father's death. God told Abram to leave his native land and his father�s house for a land that God would show him, promising to make of him a great nation, bless him, make his name great, bless those who blessed him, and curse those who cursed him. (Genesis 12:1�3) So, when God called Abraham, he moved 400 miles south to the land of Canaan and lived there most of the rest of his days. (Genesis 12:4�6) Abraham settled between Kadesh and Shur in the land of the Philistines.
God appeared to Abram to tell him that God would give the land to his heirs, and Abram built an altar to God (Genesis 12:7). It was the promises of God given to Abraham. But do not forget also that originally name of Ibrahim was Abram, or "exalted father". But God changed his name to Abraham/Ibrahim as a symbol of the covenant promise to multiply his descendants into a great nation that God would call His OWN.
Brothers, NOTE: that this land, where Abraham lived with his family, was promised to him by God as en everlasting possession! It means that his sons should posses it. Who are his sons? One of the sons of Abraham was Ishmael (born by Egyptian handmaid Hagar). Later he became father of the Arab nation and another son was called Isaac.
Sarah was jealous woman and she declared that Ishmael would not share in Isaac's inheritance. Abraham was greatly distressed by his wife's words and sought the advice of his God. The Lord told Abraham not to be distressed but to do as his wife recommended i.e. to be separated with Hagar. And Hagar lived with her son Ishmael separately from Jews. And God said to Abraham, �Do not let it be displeasing in your sight because of the lad or because of your bondwoman. Whatever Sarah has said to you, listen to her voice; for in Isaac your seed shall be called. Yet I will also make a nation of the son of the bondwoman, because he is your seed.�
Thus Arabs, here is your origin! God made a nation from Hagar and her son Ishmael. Moreover God called this nation a GREAT NATION. The same way God blessed Isaac and made a GREAT NATION from him too.
Note brothers, that the land Canaan existed already and Abraham lived there! Moreover he settled in Canaan between Kadesh and Shur in the land of the Philistines!
After roaming the wilderness for some time, Ishmael and his mother Hagar settled in the Desert of Paran, where he became an expert in archery. Ishmael had twelve sons who became twelve tribal chiefs throughout the regions from Havilah to Shur (from Assyria to the border of Egypt). His children, as God said, should become 12 kings. They are listed as follows:
1.Nebaioth
2.Kedar, father of the Qedarites, (A northern Arab tribe that controlled the region between the Persian Gulf and the Sinai Peninsula). According to tradition, ancestor of Muhammad and the Quraysh tribe.
3.Adbeel, established a tribe in northwest Arabia.
4.Mibsam
5.Mishma
6.Dumah, associated with Adummatu described as "a fortress of Arabia" in Saudi Arabia.
7.Massa, father of a nomadic tribe that inhabited the Arabian desert toward Babylonia.
8.Hadad
9.Tema
10.Jetur
11.Naphish
12.Kedemah
Daughter Mahalath or Bashemath.
What happened with Ishmael and his Jewish brother Isaac? He met with Isaac at the burial of Abraham. Ishmael died at the age of 137.
Who did live in the land of Philistines? The Philistines were a people, apparently of Aegean or Cypriot origins, who occupied the southern coast of Canaan at the beginning of the Iron Age (c. 1175 BCE). According to the Holy Scripture, they ruled the five city-states of Gaza, Askelon, Ashdod, Ekron and Gath, from the Wadi Gaza in the south to the Yarqon River in the north, but with no fixed border to the east. The Holy Scripture paints them as Israel's most dangerous enemy prior to the unification of Israel. Note also brothers, that Philistine culture was almost fully integrated with that of Canaan and the Canaanites. The Philistine culture deities they worshipped were Baal, Astarte and Dagon, whose names or variations thereof appear in the Canaanite pantheon as well.
But were the Philistines Arabs?
No. Arabs are Jews because their father was Abraham/Ishmael.
But the Philistines were mixed with Arabs -descendants of Ishmael- later. Jews were forbidden by God to marry wives of other nations. That�s why Jews kept their identity. But Arabs lived separated from God of Israel. That�s why they were mixed with the Philistines and got affected by the new-founded teaching called Islam. Living without God, you can be easily deceived by false prophets and false revelations of angels.
What is this Land Canaan to be inherited by Jews/Israelites?
Canaan (meaning the area covering roughly modern Israel, the Palestinian territories, and southern Lebanon) and the western parts of Jordan. In the Late Bronze Age was a collection of city-states under the authority of the Egyptians. The southern highlands of the region were later named Judea after the kingdom of Judah, while the coastal region came to be known as Palestina, from the name of the Philistines. That name was extended to a larger area in the 2nd century. So, the Land of Canaan became the Promised Land and was occupied by Israelites/descendants of Abraham according to the words of God and His commands.
May be it will be interesting for you to read more about the following list of battles recorded in the Bible between Israel and the Philistines:
� The Battle of Shephelah
� Israel defeated at the Battle of Aphek, Philistines capture the Ark of the Covenant (1 Samuel 4:1-10)
� Philistines defeated at the Battle of Eben-Ezer (1 Samuel 7:3-14)
� Misery Skirmish at Michmash, Philistines routed by Jonathan and his men (1 Samuel 14)
� Near the Valley of Elah, David defeats Goliath in single combat (1 Samuel 17)
Look again what God of Israel said giving Israel the land of Canaan as their everlasting and cherished possession:
"The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God." Genesis 17:8
"So I have come down to rescue them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land into a good and spacious land, a land flowing with milk and honey � the home of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites� And I have promised to bring you up out of your in Egypt into the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites � a land flowing with milk and honey." Exodus 3:8, 17
So, brothers, the Land of Canaan is a geographical name, and Israel the spiritual name of the land: This is the Promised Land which faces the entrance of the spiritual world. Because God Himself who is the Spirit dwelt among His people in Israel. The existence of this HOLY God lies beyond the physical world known to us through our senses but we are able to KNOW Him by reading His HOLY WORDS captured on the pages of His Holy Scripture which we are studying. This Land Israel has a unique status with regard to the prophecies of God and His promises to COME BACK to His Land and PUT HIS FEET there on Zion.
Summary: During the Byzantine period, almost the entire region of the Promised Land occupied by Israelites (Syria Palestine, Samaria, and the Galilee) was named Palaestina. The use of the name "Palestine" in English became more common after the European renaissance. But there is no matter what was the name of the Promised Land Israel or Palestine, we know that this LAND was given by God to the descendants of Abraham ISRAELITES. However, you Arabs are also descendants of our father Abraham. And you can reign with your brothers Jews there in peace and love. Just remember to reign there you need to get RID of your idols, false gods and submit your will and hearts to the God of Israel who is going to come back to Israel and put His feet there. If you will not do it, then your reign will be the defeat. Then you will be among those who will be judged by God Jesus upon His return (we will read about them today). Because He is the ONE who should be worshipped by you. And Islam and Indian cows should be left, abandoned by you NOW and FOREVER to LIVE ETERNALLY in the Kingdom of God of Israel. Here He explains how He is going to defeat His enemies and reign in His Israel/Palestine/The Promised Land where He is going to return SOON during the coming war of the Muslim states under the anti-christ against God�s people called Israel:
Zechariah 14 (New King James Version)
Zechariah 14
The Day of the LORD
1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
6 It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
7 It shall be one day
Which is known to the LORD�
Neither day nor night.
But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light.
8 And in that day it shall be
That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem,
Half of them toward the eastern sea
And half of them toward the western sea;
In both summer and winter it shall occur.
9 And the LORD shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be�
� The LORD is one,�
And His name one.
10 All the land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. Jerusalem[c] shall be raised up and inhabited in her place from Benjamin�s Gate to the place of the First Gate and the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king�s winepresses.
11 The people shall dwell in it;
And no longer shall there be utter destruction,
But Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
13 It shall come to pass in that day
That a great panic from the LORD will be among them.
Everyone will seize the hand of his neighbor,
And raise his hand against his neighbor�s hand;
14 Judah also will fight at Jerusalem.
And the wealth of all the surrounding nations
Shall be gathered together:
Gold, silver, and apparel in great abundance.
15 Such also shall be the plague
On the horse and the mule,
On the camel and the donkey,
And on all the cattle that will be in those camps.
So shall this plague be.
The Nations Worship the King
16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
20 In that day �HOLINESS TO THE LORD� shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the LORD�s house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the LORD of hosts. Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them. In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
:applause: thank you Bahira:applause:...so if all of this information you have posted comes from the word of God, and can be found in the Old Testament of the Holy Bible, as well as how God divided the land... what's the problem?...why is it that no one is reading with understanding and following God's directives regarding the land?
Why is there a fight over land that first of which all belongs to God and He appointed it to the people He had chosen, and secondly He has already determined Christ's landing site and no man or group of people can change it.
Does anyone believe or think that God is going to allow anyone to take hold of Jesus's landing place for when He returns?...I mean, does anyone really think that God is going to allow the enemy of the Lord to occupy Christ's landing strip for the new kingdom to come? If so, it will only be for a moment, God already knew these things would be.. Ishmal and Isaac have fought all thier lives, Ishmal out of jealousy of Isaac because Isaac was of the promise child, and God has already said they will not have peace between the two until Jesus returns...the only peace the two brothers had was when they came together for Abraham's burial...
So to hate over the land and out of jealousy in the name of God, what is Christ going to do, place one foot in Jerusalem on the Jews side of the borders, and the other foot in Palestine on the Palestians side? I don't think so..
Thank you, and all who don't know the truth about the land or the people of the land, shoudl pick up the word of God and read...
Sister, Arabs and Jews are brothers from the one father. But God told us what will be the future of Arabs when Ishmael was a child. Not only jealousy of Sarah was the reason why two brothers could not live together. It was also a character of Ishmael. May be because his mother was Egyptian. May be it was the reason why they were different even having at the same blood of their father. God predicted future of Ishmael and his descendants (by saying these words of curse He knew future of Arabs under Islam bloodshed which they performed). But however God knew that they are those who will be saved and will called HIS INHERITANCE through their FAITH in Ibn Allah too. Let�s listen to God:
Genesis 16: 12
He shall be a wild man;
His hand shall be against every man,
And every man�s hand against him.
And he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.�
Genesis 17:20
And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.
From Ishmael proceeded the12 tribes of the Arabs. But his hand was always against every man, and every man's hand against him. All Arabs have quarrelsome temper and warlike disposition. They are continually engaged in fighting with his neighbors, and they are with him in their own defense (look at Palestine). Such the Arabs always have been, and still are.
Those that have turbulent spirits have commonly troublesome lives: they that are provoking, and injurious to others, must expect to be repaid in their own coin.
But God said that Ishmael shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren (Jews). He shall keep his ground and he is able to make his part good with them.
Thus, Arabs, God LOVES you. You are His GREAT NATION! Praise the Lord for His LOVE toward you. But what we all consider as bad character features � hatred and antagonism- should be REMOVED from you by the Holy POWER of God. Because He is going to REFINE you like GOLD to give you His HOLY LAND- the Kingdom of Heaven through your FAITH in Ibn Allah.
Interesting post Bahira. There was a lot of information above, so I might not be able to comment on everything. Concerning Abraham and his arrival in Canaan, it is important to note that the use of "Land of the Philistines" refers to the date when the actual story was written down, sometime after 1000 BC. The Philistines did not arrive there until ca 1200 BC, while Abraham got there ca 2000 BC. As such, the people who lived there were Canaanites and Hittites.
I am a bit uncertain if I have gotten your correctly when it comes to the promises given to the Arabs and the Israelites. The promise given to Ishmael was that he would become a great nation too, but the promise of the land area of Israel (Canaan) was given exclusively to Isac. As we know, the remaining area of the Middle East were eventually taken by the Arabs, even North Africa. As far as I can see, Arabs and any other peoples were allowed to live in Israel as long as they respected Israelite rule.
Concerning the present situation the case is more complicated as we cannot be completely sure about how God's plan will unfold. We know that Israel sooner or later will have their entire realm re-established (as we can see from the prophets, Ezekiel etc), but we do not know exactly how it will happen. One thing is certan in any regard, and this is that Hamas & co do not have God's support in their plans of exterminating the Jews.
I am glad that you liked my address to Arabs above. I liked your information you provided about dates. Thank you.
God gave almost the same blessings to Jews and Arabs (Ishmael and Isaac). He promised make of them 2 great nations.
Look:
Then God said, "Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. Genesis 17:19
What does it mean? It means that God is with Isaac and his descendants. It is a confirmation made by God that He is with Israel. And that there is no other god in Islam. Everlasting Covenant with God should be made though Israelites and NOT Arabs in Islam (their false religion which is one of the millions of others which deceives and kills millions of people pooling them to hell).
God said about His WAY before existence of Islam. Now it is the choice of Arabs and Muslims to reconsider their scripture and God's words to choose their future and destiny.
God Jesus said who is NOT with Me is AGAINST Me.
Why it is so important to consider such issues? Because Arabs and Muslims are those who die. And we have to call them to God.
some information for you. Your dates you have provided are correct according to archeology surveys.
But do you remember what I said:
Abraham settled between Kadesh and Shur in the land of the Philistines!
Look here in this passage proofs that during the life of Abraham Isaac met with Philistines which were not Arabs!!!
Genesis 26:1-35
Isaac and Abimelech
26Now there was a famine in the land&mdas;besides the earlier famine of Abraham's time�and Isaac went to Abimelech king of the Philistines in Gerar. 2 The LORD appeared to Isaac and said, "Do not go down to Egypt; live in the land where I tell you to live. 3Stay in this land for a while, and I will be with you and will bless you. For to you and your descendants I will give all these lands and will confirm the oath I swore to your father Abraham.4 I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed,5 because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws." 6So Isaac stayed in Gerar.
7 When the men of that place asked him about his wife, he said, "She is my sister," because he was afraid to say, "She is my wife." He thought, "The men of this place might kill me on account of Rebekah, because she is beautiful."
8 When Isaac had been there a long time, Abimelech king of the Philistines looked down from a window and saw Isaac caressing his wife Rebekah. 9 So Abimelech summoned Isaac and said, "She is really your wife! Why did you say, 'She is my sister'?"
Isaac answered him, "Because I thought I might lose my life on account of her."
10 Then Abimelech said, "What is this you have done to us? One of the men might well have slept with your wife, and you would have brought guilt upon us."
11 So Abimelech gave orders to all the people: "Anyone who molests this man or his wife shall surely be put to death."
12 Isaac planted crops in that land and the same year reaped a hundredfold, because the LORD blessed him. 13 The man became rich, and his wealth continued to grow until he became very wealthy. 14 He had so many flocks and herds and servants that the Philistines envied him. 15 So all the wells that his father's servants had dug in the time of his father Abraham, the Philistines stopped up, filling them with earth.
16 Then Abimelech said to Isaac, "Move away from us; you have become too powerful for us."
17 So Isaac moved away from there and encamped in the Valley of Gerar and settled there. 18 Isaac reopened the wells that had been dug in the time of his father Abraham, which the Philistines had stopped up after Abraham died, and he gave them the same names his father had given them.
19 Isaac's servants dug in the valley and discovered a well of fresh water there. 20 But the herdsmen of Gerar quarreled with Isaac's herdsmen and said, "The water is ours!" So he named the well Esek, because they disputed with him. 21Then they dug another well, but they quarreled over that one also; so he named it Sitnah. 22 He moved on from there and dug another well, and no one quarreled over it. He named it Rehoboth, saying, "Now the LORD has given us room and we will flourish in the land."
23 From there he went up to Beersheba. 24That night the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am the God of your father Abraham. Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bless you and will increase the number of your descendants for the sake of my servant Abraham."
25 Isaac built an altar there and called on the name of the LORD. There he pitched his tent, and there his servants dug a well.
26 Meanwhile, Abimelech had come to him from Gerar, with Ahuzzath his personal adviser and Phicol the commander of his forces.27Isaac asked them, "Why have you come to me, since you were hostile to me and sent me away?"
28 They answered, "We saw clearly that the LORD was with you; so we said, 'There ought to be a sworn agreement between us'�between us and you. Let us make a treaty with you 29 that you will do us no harm, just as we did not molest you but always treated you well and sent you away in peace. And now you are blessed by the LORD."
30 Isaac then made a feast for them, and they ate and drank. 31 Early the next morning the men swore an oath to each other. Then Isaac sent them on their way, and they left him in peace.
32 That day Isaac's servants came and told him about the well they had dug. They said, "We've found water!" 33 He called it Shibah, and to this day the name of the town has been Beersheba.
34 When Esau was forty years old, he married Judith daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and also Basemath daughter of Elon the Hittite. 35 They were a source of grief to Isaac and Rebekah.
Yes, that is interesting Bahira. I guess that there could be several explanations to this. Perhaps the term Philistine was used even though the people of Abimelek were not actual Philistines, but rather the people who lived in and ruled the areas which later got settled by the actual Philistines, and which were the reference for the person who wrote down the stories about Abraham and Isac. In order for us to link archeology with the Biblical story I believe that we need to look on it like that. But I am sure that many Christians have checked this out before and that other explanations may be applicable too.
Yes, that is my position too. And that is why I would seek to harmonize Scripture and archeology with each other. I believe that we agree on that one! There are those who would search with lamp and light after errors and contradictions, and I am certainly not one of them. :)
