Thread: IN RESPONSE TO SIR JAMES BUT ALL SHOULD READ THIS
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IN RESPONSE TO SIR JAMES BUT ALL SHOULD READ THIS
Posted : 4 May, 2011 12:55 PM
THIS IS FROM A POST WHERE I ASKED JAMES TO POST SCRIPTURE SAYING THAT THE FRIST DAY OF THE WEEK WAS MENTIONED IN SCRIPTURE AS WORSHIP OR REPLACING IF YOU WILL THE SABBATH,,SO HERE AR THE VERSES HE POSTED AND MY RESPONSE
1. Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week (Matt. 28:1-7; Mark 16:2, 9; Luke 24:1; John 20:1).
THE WORD DAY IS IN ITALICS SO YOU CAN THROW IT OUT!!! THE GREEK WORDS USED HERE ARE "MIA TON SABBATON" LITERALLY TRANSLATED AS ONE OF THE SABBATHS,,,THIS IS THE SAME FOR 20:19 AS WELL
2. Jesus appeared to the disciples on the first day of the week (John 20:19).
3. Jesus appeared inside the room to the eleven disciples eight days after the first day of the week. The Jewish way of measuring days meant that it was again Sunday
(John 20:26)
OKAY SO I HAVE NO CLUE HOW YOU CAN GET A WEEK OUT OF EIGHT DAYS??? HERE THE ENGLISH WORDS USED ARE "AFTER EIGHT DAYS" WHICH MEANS AFTER EIGHT DAYS SO IF YOU HAVE EIGHT DAYS AFTER THE FIRST DAY AND THERE ARE SEVEN DAYS IN A WEEK EVEN SAYING AFTER SEVEN DAYS STILL DOES NOT GET YOU A WEEK AND THE JEWS DO NOT COUNT ANY DIFFERENT AS FAR AS 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 STILL SEVEN IS SEVEN,,,IT SAYS "AND AFTER EIGHT DAYS HIS TAUGHT ONES WERE AGAIN INSIDE....NO WHERE DOES IT SAY AFTER THE FIRST OF THE WEEK
4. The Holy Spirit came on Pentecost, the first day of the week (Lev. 23:16; Acts 2:1).
LEV. 23:16 "UNTIL THE MORROW AFTER THE SEVENTH SABBATH YOU COUNT FIFTY DAYS, THEN YOU BRING A NEW GRAIN OFFERING TO YHWH" IF YOU READ THE VERSE BEFORE THIS "15" IT IS TALKING ABOUT SHABU'OT WHICH IS COUNTING SEVEN SABBATHS FROM THE SABBATH AFTER FIRST FRUITS AT UNLEAVENED BREAD,,YOU COUNT FIFTY DAYS,,HOW DO WE KEEP THIS FEAST IF WE CAN'T KEEP THE SABBATHS??? IN ZECHARIAH 14:18-21 IT SPEAKS OF END TIMES PROPHECY AND IT SAYS THAT ANY NATION THAT DOES NOT KEEP SUKKOT WILL BE PUNISHED,,SO IF WE ARE NOT TO KEEP THESE FEAST THEN WHY DO WE GET PUNISHED THEN IN THE LAST DAYS??? IS GOD TRYING TO TRICK US???
ACTS 2:1 IS TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY ARE GATHERED FOR SHABU'OT A FEAST THEY STILL KEPT AFTER YAHSHUA DIED SO WHY WOULD THEY KEEP IT IF HE FULFILLED IT OR DID AWAY WITH IT??? COME ON BROTHER DO SOME THINKING FOR YOURSELF AND LOSE THE DOCTRINE HERE IT IS RIGHT IN YOUR FACE,,NO WHERE HERE DOES IT SAY THE FIRST OF THE WEEK EITHER ????
5. The first sermon was preached by Peter on the first day of the week (Acts 2:14).
HERE AGIAN NO WHERE DOES IT SAY THE FIRST OF THE WEEK
6. Three thousand converts joined the church on the first day of the week (Acts 2:41).
THIS ONE JUST SAYS "ON THAT DAY" NO WHERE AGAIN DOES IT IMPLY FIRST OF THE WEEK
7. The three thousand were baptized on the first day of the week (Acts 2:41).
NO WHERE AGAIN DOES IT IMPLY FIRST OF THE WEEK
8. The Christians assembled broke bread on the first day of the week.
WRONG AGAIN SORRY IT DOES NOT SAY FIRST OF THE WEEK,,IT SAYS "AND DAY BY DAY, CONTINUING WITH ONE MIND IN THE SET APART PLACE",,,,,HMMMM SOUNDS LIKE THEY WERE IN THERE LOTS OF DAYS
9. The Christians also heard a message from Paul on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7). Note: the reference is until midnight which is not the Jewish method of measuring days, but the Roman system.
HERE AGAIN WE HAVE THE WORD DAY IN ITALICS SO WE CAN THROW THAT OUT,,AGAIN HERE IS THE SAME AS BEFORE "MIA TON SABBATON" WHICH NOW WE KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS "ON A SABBATH" CAUSE IT SAYS THAT HE INTENDED TO DEPART THE NEXT DAY!!!! BELLS SHOULD BE GOING OFF NOW IT IS SABBATH AND THE ONLY THING IT SAYS ABOUT MIDNIGHT IS THAT THEY CONTINUED TIL MIDNIGHT SO HE WAS PREACHING ALL NIGHT,,THAT IS WHY A FEW VERSES LATER A GUY FELL A SLEEP AND ALMOST DIED,,,IT SAYS THAT THEY KEPT TALKING UNITL DAYBREAK,,THEN HE SAYS IN 16 THAT HE WANTS TO HURRY FOR IF POSSIBLE TO MAKE IT YERUSHALAYIM FOR SHABU'OT A FEAST THAT HAD BEEN DONE AWAY WITH ACCORDING TO YOU
10. Paul instructed the churches to put aside contributions on the first day of the week
(1 Cor. 16:2).
OKAY SO ONE MORE TIME HERE WE GO AGAIN THIS IS THE SAME AS ALL THE OTHER TIMES "MIA TON SABBATON" ONE OF THE SABBATHS!!!!!!!!
11. Jesus gave the apostle John the vision of Revelation on the first day of the week
(Rev. 1:10).1
THIS NOT THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK BUT I AM GALD YOU HAVE PLACED IT HERE CAUSE IT IS A DAY THAT WE NEED TO KNOW SO HERE GO AND FIND OUT WHAT DAY THIS IS FOR YOURSELVES ,,,"THE DAY OF YHWH"
THESE VERSES WILL SHOW YOU WHAT THE DAY OF YHWH MEANS
BROTHER I PRAY THAT YOU SEE WHAT IS GOING ON HERE!!! THIS IS NOT ME BEING RIGHT BUT THE WORD BEING PUT BACK TO TRUTH,,,WE HAVE TO REALIZE THAT WHAT WE HAVE BEEN TAUGHT MAY NOT BE TRUTH AND THAT WE NEED TO STUDY SCRIPTURE FROM THE POINT OF VIEW THAT IS WAS GIVEN AND NOT FROM A ROMAN OR WESTERN WAY,,,I LOVE YOU BROTHER AND I PRAY THAT YOUR EYES ARE OPENED TO SEE THAT YOU MAY NOT HAVE GOD IN THE BOX YOU THOUGHT YOU DID,,,I AM NOT TRYING TO BE MEAN,,I LOVE YOU AND I PRAISE OUR FATHER FOR YOU,,,PUT THE DOCTRINE DOWN AND COME OUT OF BABYLON BROTHER ,,,LET THIS BE VICTORY FOR YHWH ELOHIM AND NOT ME,,,I AM NOTHING BUT A SERVANT IF IT WERE NOT FOR YAHSHUA I WOULD NOT SEE THE KINGDOM,,I PRAISE YAHSHUA ,,,,MAY THIS BE AN EYE OPENING POST BROTHER ,,I DO LOVE YOU AND ANYONE WHO READS THIS,,MAY THE PEACE OF YHWH BE WITH YOU ALWAYS
I don't think anybody is saying the Sabbath was changed to Sunday, if they are it is just out of ignorance. The Sabbath means "seventh day" therefore the Sabbath will always be on Saturday period. However how the Sabbath is kept under the New Covenant is open for discussion.
So Icebro, how do you keep the Sabbath? Do you count your steps? Do you light a fire? Do you prepare all your food on Friday? Who gets to say what proper Sabbath keeping is? You? Your church? The Torah? Where does one draw the line? Who draws the line?
1. Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week (Matt. 28:1-7; Mark 16:2, 9; Luke 24:1; John 20:1).
Icebro responded:
THE WORD DAY IS IN ITALICS SO YOU CAN THROW IT OUT!!! THE GREEK WORDS USED HERE ARE "MIA TON SABBATON" LITERALLY TRANSLATED AS ONE OF THE SABBATHS,,,THIS IS THE SAME FOR 20:19 AS WELL
James replies: I do not "throw out" ANY of the words of the 66 canonical books of the Bible.
Is the word "First" in Italics also???
One common game that you find on internet discussion groups is the "critiquing the translators" game.
I hope you are different Icebro, but so far, all ten people who have critiqued the translators to me, have one thing in common.
They don't know Greek or Hebrew!
If I hand anyone of them a 3 by 5 card with a paragraph of Greek on it, they can't tell me if it is a passage from Romans, or a recipe for potato salad!
Icebro, you are attempting to tell me that for the last two thousand years, ALL the EXPERTS in Greek MISSED A SIMPLE THINK LIKE TRANSLATING THE DAY OF THE WEEK INCORRECTLY?
It says, "the first day of the week" in my ESV study Bible.
And, lets just say, for a moment that you were not only fluent in Greek, but an EXPERT, and you DID find something that EVERY EXPERT in history missed somehow.....
How would I know if you are right or not???
I don't know Greek or Hebrew!
I know English and some Russian, that's it.
So, I just want you to know that I do NOT play the internet discussion game known as "critiquing the translators".
The experts got it right, and you SHOULD trust modern day translations like the ESV and NAS, etc.
yep great response not the one i was hoping for but the one i expected. you know i bet many people in the Yisra'el thought that the pharisees had it right and that they should trust them too,,,,then YAHSHUA came and broke all that,,,of course you won't play that game cause that game says your doctrine is WRONG!!! with todays study tools and computers man anybody can study any language they wish especially if the FATHER is leading them,,HE knows everything and HE knew that we would be here at this point with the tools at hand to study HIS word and get back to truth,,,,,
here is one for you that was found when the HEBREW MAttithyahu was found (Matthew) 23:2-3 this Scripture in your translation says that the scribes and the pharisees sit in the seat of Mosheh so therefore whatever they say to guard, guard and do, but do not do according to their works for they say,and do not do,,,now that does not really make much sense does it???? why would HE say guard what they say guard but don't do as they do,,then later HE crushes them with all kinds of WOE TO YOUS and tells them they are like whitewashed tombs,,, now if you read what the SHEM TOV text reads it reads a little bit different it says ,,,,The scribes and pharisees sit in the seat of Mosheh therefore whatever HE says guard, guard and do for they say but do not do,,,,,now that makes much more sense now !!!??? YEAH????
so brother see what is under our nose can be hidden
I could be the greatest Hebrew & Greek scholar on the planet brother but you are not going to listen to me cause it means that all those years your doctrine told you were right are really wrong now and you have to rethink how you approach your FATHER,,,sorry to be the one to say it brother but truth is truth and you can deny it all you want but truth is still truth
I hope this is a lesson to all of you who read this,,that when met with a sound (Scriptural)response to truth in Scripture the answer is oh well i don't play that way,,,well i have to tell you brother that GOD don't play denominational games either and HIS laws are the same as they ever were
NOW to you sparrows
i am glad you are concerned with how i keep Shabbat even if it is to try and tear me down,,,if you know what the MESSIAH was preaching then you know that there are two books these days one called the Torah and one called the Talmud ,,,well one is not GOD'S law,,one is the spoken torah passed down through man and that became tradition and then was put in place as GOD'S own law,,that book would be the Talmud,,in that book the pharisees had all kinds of rules for Shabbat and dressing and washing of hands,,,if you are familiar with this book then the things that YAHSHUA did become a bit more clear as HE was always in their face about these traditions,,cause they said that you could not enter the kingdom without doing them,,,so i do not follow man made law only the law of the FATHER,,and of course US law but Scripturally speaking
ask YHWH where to draw the line,,maybe HE will draw a line and say i CREATED YOU now do as I say!!! hahaha that is to be funny
now for my honesty::::: it took a little time for me to understand and still learning how to REST on Shabbat,,that is the key,,,yes it says do not kindle a fire now YAHSHUA healed on Shabbat so if i can build a fire for someone who is cold and may freeze or is really old and building that fire is on Shabbat???? guess what i am going to do??? yep!! i'll be building a fire,,,,Shabbat is for REST(and doing good well everyday should be for doing good but not exempt on Shabbat) and if you work on it for gain then you are not RESTING as the FATHER has said,,,this is a blessing and not a burden,,i will admit that i thought it was burdensome when i first started keeping Shabbat but that grew into understanding and a great blessing,,,i like to study on Shabbat go to the congregation and fellowship and that last almost all day most of the time until the sun goes down sometimes,,we spend lots of time together on Shabbat,,,i like to eat with my family at the assemblies ,,,we have food ready yes,,,i try not to cook big meals but again if i met a person who is hungry and i don't have enough food ready i will cook something for them,,usually i am eating with the assembly though and i am good for the day,,you know why cause man does not live off of bread alone,,so food is not a big deal to me on Shabbat,,,spending time with my FATHER on HIS day is,,,and it is HIS day always has been always will be
so to sum up i spend Shabbat with my FATHER studying HIS WORD or relaxing doing nothing,,either way you choose to keep Shabbat you do it to YHWH,,,HE told us not to work and not to make others work and to meet and to rest and you can do those things all kinds of ways,,,see when the FATHER told people to build an alter HE told them to build it out of natural stones not bricks cause bricks all look the same,,so don't be a brick brother be who YHWH made you to be and be free in HIS laws,,,
you know no matter what i have found comfort in the fact that you may never see what i am trying to tell you until you see it for yourself and maybe then all these post and all these words of "COME OUT OF BABYLON" will ring in your ears and you will fall to your knees and repent saying "SURELY WE HAVE INHERITED LIES FROM OUR FATHERS" Scripture says you will run to the Yisra'elite saying teach us please!!! grabbing their Tzitzit ,,,well you guys won't see that right now cause you know it all and your doctrine can never be wrong,,,i have been blessed brothers with ears to hear,, not saying that you don't or i am special cause i am not i am a filthy sinner,,,there are many many people preaching return to the FATHER and HIS Torah,,,i have learned a great deal from listen to others but i went behind what i learned and saw for myself it was real,,,i can look up on this computer most of the fundamental corner stones of your doctrinal belief as lies made up by man,,like rapture made up in 1830,,sungod day constantine well i will post some of that for you guys
listen i love you and you should get off the ego trip and think for a second what if ??? just what if this guy is here sent by GOD to tell you to return to HIM,,is that possible ?? is it totally not true because i don't say what your itchy ears want to hear??? i love you brother i really do,,,in MESSIAH YAHSHUA
We have So much to talk about! However I am on the verge of being late for work, but just wanted to say It is not my desire to tear my brother down, but to build him up in the Grace of God. However I will go after those teachings that present themselves against the Grace of God and seek to again put under bondage those Jesus gave His life to free.
Always remember brother, it is not "you" it is a "teaching" we discuss.
AMEN brother AMEN you have such a wonderful heart!!! you really do and i know that,,,it is not you either that i am after it is the years of doctrine that has been taught to you in a way that we no longer are obedient to our FATHER on HIS terms not ours,,,,yes yes let us not be under any law or yoke that burdens us but brother i am tell you pleading even that keeping the FATHERS laws the way HE said is not a burden but a blessing and i love my FATHER and HIS SON,,,,,try it!! try just for a month keep Shabbat do no work on that day,,go to service somewhere or just read all day at home on Shabbat,,,cook yourself some food make a sandwich relax but keep Shabbat,,test the FATHER on this,,,keep it for one month and pray about it and tell me HE does not reveal something special to you,,,now by saying this i am not approving works for grace,,,i am just saying try this keep HIS day on the same day and the way HE wants,,,,take these simple steps and see what happens??
thank you so much brother really thank you ,,,,you know i pray one day we meet you are a very interesting person and i think we would have fun!! maybe one day,,,i pray you and all the others have a wonderful day!!! brother thank you
I read this and the last one. The difference between jews and christians is the day we have as the sabbath. Friend I like your post and want you to think on something.
Did paul not tell the Jews not to force jewish custom on the church. ahhhhhh.......
Be kool friend. Got you thinking wye we gentiles are different.
Please don't think the following is a smart alec question; in light of what you are saying I do think it deserves a answer.
Isn't a animal supposed to be sacrificed on the Sabbath? No where did God tell the Jews to quit sacrificing animals. Now you and I know in light of the Cross it would be blasphemy to sacrifice a animal, however that is not the point. The point is where did God tell them to quit? And are there other things we know not to do anymore that God did not specifically come out and say point blank "don't do such and such anymore".
thank you brother yes i see where you are going and that is awesome now i just wish you to turn that around and question some other things as well
YAHSHUA proclaimed that HE was THE Passover Lamb so when we see what the rehearsal of this Feast was all those years when we were to select a lamb,,a perfect lamb,and then bring it into our house for 4 days and groom it and wash it and love it and feed it,treat as one the family and then put your hand on it face and push it down as you cut its throat and hear the breathe escape from it and see the blood run out and know that there is nothing you can do that this animal is going to die in place of you and for your atonement
when we did this all those years we see clearly that HE was the LAMB of all lambs and the blood of lambs and goats does not take away sin but the blood of MESSIAH ,,we were told brother all through the Scripture when we were told of the MESSIAH,,HE said HE was the Passover LAMB so in that HE is telling us
HE also said plainly DO NOT THINK I CAME TO DESTROY THE TORAH OR THE PROPHETS I DID NOT COME TO DESTROY BUT TO FULFILL
HE has NOT finished fulfilling the Torah and the Prophets yet and NOT ONE YOD OR TITTLE SHOULD FALL FROM HIS FATHERS WORDS UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS
i see what you are saying brother but HE did tell us we need not sacrifice by telling us HE was THE LAMB and many other places where the MESSIAH is spoken of as the REDEEMER
The emissaries kept the Shabbat and the Feast and the laws
my brother up there i am not placing any yoke to hard to carry i am saying the same thing the Taught Ones of YAHSHUA (Jesus ) said in ACTS 15
abstain from horing
abstain from blood
abstain from things strangled
abstain from idols
and then go to the assemblies on Shabbat and hear the Torah and the Prophets and the GOOD NEWS proclaimed every Shabbat
