The Bible, the justice system and common sense dictates a person cannot testify on their own behalf. Therefore the Bible cannot testify on its own behalf.------------------------------ Since the New Testament did not exist at the time of its own writing, it is impossible for anything in the New Testament to testify about the New Testament. ----------------------------------- The Bible isn't a Book, but a collection of books by different authors. Therefore authors may testify for another book as long as they weren't the author of that book------------------- Where legitimate testimony exists, what is being testified to? For example Psalm 119 may testify about Torah; "the word is perfect" but that does not equate to inerrant, but rather, perfect for the job it is intended for.----------------------------
The bottom line is the Bible is a extremely valuable written record by and about the relationship with God.our physical and spiritual ancestors had. The Bible is a God inspired tool designed to bring us into relationship with the "Living Word" rather than bring us into relationship with a Paper Pope.
For example, when I said you need to get rid of your “inner prophetic” and “that there’s probably an exorcist for that”, I was merely using parody.
Parody, Chuckk, isn’t actually intended to be taken literally. You see, I don’t believe you have a real demon, although I believe you are teaching the doctrines of demons just like your inconvenient cohort “prophetic”.
End quote
Don't get sore Chuckk . My bro David has said the same to me! Yeah, seems that "inner prophetic" is catchy lately.
All you have to do is give me a couple Scripture verses of Moses, or the Old Testament, or Jesus testifying on Paul's behalf, and we're good.
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It WAS prophesied that the fullness of the gentiles would come in , was it not?
Who was Peter preaching to..? the jew first right?
Then the gentiles....so it seems pretty clear that Y'shua was right on time to raise up Paul for such an office reach the gentiles does it not? Who else was a candidate?
Chuckk, please, I’m not asking for a second job, already have a full time job fact checking and correcting all of prophetic’s errors. Now you come on along with even more errors
But ok ok, since you need assistance let’s see what I have for you
an ad hominem is an irelevant attack on the person.
Let’s look at your stuff
QUOTE CHUCKK
You have an issue with Paul by taking him out of the cultural context of the second Temple period and imposing a modern systematic theology context on his writings.
END QUOTE CHUCKK
My reply to Chuckk,
you’re confusing assertions for fact. You said absolutely nothing factual in your statement above.
If you expect to be taken seriously then back your statements with proof and reveal your sources. Then, clearly explain WHY you justify placing your confidence in them
QUOTE CHUCKK
This is the issue you flatly refuse to see: In order for systematic theology to work properly, you need Scripture verses supporting a system where Paul has authority superseding Moses and Jesus.
END QUOTE CHUCKK
My reply to Chuck
The Scriptures you’ve asked for have been provided for you but you refuse to believe just like the Phariseeic Jews in Jesus day. If Jesus can’t convince you, who am I ??
QUOTE THE CHUCKK
You don't have the Scripture
You refuse to see or acknowledge without Scriptural support your belief is unsubstantiated.
END QUOTE THE CHUCKK
My reply to chuckk
Quite false! Plenty of scriptural substantiation. Jesus performed miracles and so did Paul. Yet the traditions of your Pharisaical method keeps blocking your view
QUOTE CHUCKK
With 2 threads, 12 pages and over a 100 posts of me repeatedly asking for supporting Scriptural proof for your assertion, you supplied none, not even one. Prophetic posts hundreds on non sequitur verses while you engage in repeated ad hominems
END QUOTE CHUCKK
My reply,
The Pharisees made the same request of Jesus. They just weren’t satisfied with truth
And chuckk, the ad hominem fallacy is fallacious only when conversation contains irrelevant information to the topic under discussion. You clearly don’t understand logic either, add that to your long “need to get acquainted with list”.
I welcome good discussion, it is beneficial for everyone. Thinking about starting a more specific thread. However not about Paul directly, but the doctrine that turns Paul into something he is not. I appreciate your polite discussion.
According to the story that Moses got from God there was only a burning bush and God who witnessed Moses’ calling. Paul also had God too! And a few bewildered folk that didn’t know what happened
But both Moses and Paul were given power to perform miracles before hordes of folk thus proving they were given authority to speak for and from God.
End quote
Sounds like a checkmate statement to me. Got to admit Chuckk, he has a point."
> This is classic bait and switch. There is no point here. Lil David baits with witnessed "calling" then switches it to authority. The Nation of Israel witnessed the giving of the Law. Who witnessed the new Laws being given to Paul but Paul? (This is not about calling, but about authority).
As to miracles:
Jesus Himself warns in Mt 24:24, “For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.”
And....
Deut 13: 1-3, “If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass (it’s actually a real miracle), and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the LORD your God is testing you, to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.”
Miracles by themselves mean nothing.
There is nothing to admit. There is no checkmate.
Please show me Scriptural proof Psul has the authority to make new Laws - then I will be "checkmated"<
Chuckles: it is very easy to understand that God inspired Moses to write the first 5 books of the OT just as God inspired Paul to write 14 books in the New and better Covenant.
2 Peter 1:20-21: Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of scripture came about by the prophets own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, **SPOKE FROM GOD** as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit!!
Chuckles: Wehave severe disagreements on this forum but we all agree that the 14 books by Paul in the New Testament are all inspired by God and have **ZERO ERRORS** and all of Paul's commandments are also commandments of God. and all apply to the present day.
NOTE: Chuckles does not believe the following Scriptures by Luke who was inspired to write Luke and Acts which were inspired by God??? Chuckles also does not believe God's word in 2 Peter 3:15,16 below was inspired by God. And so chuckles strongly implies the writings of Luke and Peter are also not inspired by God.
Acts 9:15: The Lord said to Ananias, "This man{Paul} is My **CHOSEN INSTRUMENT**to proclaim My name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.
Acts 26:16-18: The Lord said to Paul, " I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of **WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN AND WILL SEE OF ME! I will rescue from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in Me!"
2 Peter 3:15,16: Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our **DEAR BROTHER PAUL ALSO WROTE WITH THE WISDOM THAT GOD GAVE HIM**! He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand {For the Lost}. which IGNORANT AND UNSTABLE PEOPLE DISTORT, as they do other Scriptures to **THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION**!
Actually the question is not as you say that Paul has the authority to add new commandments but whether Paul was inspired by God to write new commands in his 14 books which is over half of the New Testament of God's inspired words.
John 16:12,13: Jesus says, "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all the Truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify Me because it is from Me that he will receive what he will make known to you!"
And holy spirit inspired the 8 writers of the 27 books of the New Testament to write everything Jesus told him to write which includes all of the 14 books of Paul.
THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “All authority in heaven and on ***EARTH*** has been given to Me {Not some RC Pope}. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** {The entire NT inspired by Jesus} I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!”
Sure. I think with some things we end up with a big "I don't know", because the Bible, or just the Torah, isn't exhaustive of all possible knowledge we can obtain, but we can definitely use them to measure things and often confirm or deny other things. I think with Paul, what we hear about him aligns with a lot of what we do know, but I believe there are mysteries as well. The nice thing about it all is WE CAN bounce a lot of the scriptures up against the Torah, as well as the words of Jesus Christ.
I know part of the enjoying for me studying is when I hit one of those "AHAA" moments and pick up something new. Best wishes with your studies. :)
All you have to do is give me a couple Scripture verses of Moses, or the Old Testament, or Jesus testifying on Paul's behalf, and we're good.
End quote"
"It WAS prophesied that the fullness of the gentiles would come in....the jew first....Then the gentiles....so it seems pretty clear that Y'shua was right on time to raise up Paul for such an office reach the gentiles does it not? Who else was a candidate? "
> Authority is not based on "so it seems" statements or who else was a candidate". Authority is given by God. First it was given to Moses who said there will be one like him and after him to listen to - Jesus. The authority of Jesus is proven through Prophecy, the resurrection and ascension into heaven.
Show me Spriptual proof Paul was given the same authority as Moses and Jesus.
Paul was called before the Council of Jerusalem for reported misconduct and he has authority over Jesus and Moses, but not the Council of Jerusalem?<
