Author Thread: FAITH ALONE OR WITH WORKS?
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FAITH ALONE OR WITH WORKS?
Posted : 26 Sep, 2009 06:55 AM

This subject has confused bibical students from the time it was first written and many have their opinion about it,but if we allow the bible to explain itself it becomes so clear..



The first �key� to spiritual victory, breakthrough, and overcoming is simple, godly faith. But what kind of faith? Just what IS �faith�?

The apostle Paul explained, �Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. . . Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God . . . But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him� (Heb.11:1-6).

Abraham set us all an example of faith. We read of him: �[Abraham] being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb: He STAGGEERED NOT at the promise of God through unbelief; but was STRONG IN FAITH, giving glory to God; and being FULLY PERSUADED that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform� (Rom.4:19-21).

Faith ALONE Is Not Enough!

But faith alone, is dead and worthless. We must also do our own part!

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The apostle James said, �What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?� (James 2:14). James continues, �If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled: notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone� (James 2:15-17).

Now don't blame me -- I didn't say that. James did! And GOD inspired him to do it! Those who teach that there are �NO WORKS� required for salvation can eat their hat -- their words -- or eat straw! They are DEAD WRONG! In order for our faith to be effective, we must have good works -- that is, we must OBEY God's commandments, keep His laws, and follow the example set by Yeshua our High Priest and the Captain of our salvation!

James adds, �But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is DEAD?� (v.20). James mentions the example of Abraham, �Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?� (v.21-22). James concluded, �For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also� (James 2:26).

We need faith AND WORKS in order to become OVERCOMERS! What �kind� of works? The works of OBEDIENCE to the laws and commandments of GOD!

The apostle Peter declared, �And we are witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Spirit, whom God hath given to them that OBEY him� Acts 5:32). Faith in God must be combined with obedience to the LAWS of God! The apostle Paul wrote, �Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! [God forbid!] On the contrary, we ESTABLISH the law� (Rom.3:31, NKJV).

The apostle Paul wrote: �Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have NO PLEASURE in him. But we are NOT of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul� (Hebrews 10:38-39).

This wonderful attribute of faith is not something we must work up ourselves, by our own human efforts. Not at all. But as Paul tells us, �For by grace are ye saved through FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it [the very FAITH itself!] is the GIFT OF GOD; not of works, lest any man should boast� (Eph.2:8-9).

This faith is the very faith of Christ put within us by the Spirit of God. It is the very same faith Jesus had.

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daniel12345

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FAITH ALONE OR WITH WORKS?
Posted : 14 Oct, 2009 08:10 AM

First of all, I need to correct you on this, Jesus never kept the Sabbath, in a sense, he never rest on Sabbath at least to the day he said these.



�17 Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." 18For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.� John 5.



He was working every day at that time. Did he rest when he died? I don't know. Most probably he didn't as 1 Peter 3:18-20 implies so. Has he sinned by not keeping the Sabbath on Saturday? No. As it is written Sabbath is for man (Mark 2:17). Since is for man, does man has the liberty to choose? Yes. In many instances, Jesus demonstrate that it is the meaning of Sabbath is meant for rest to a sense that it did not affect your life. SO we had the liberty to choose.



Who set Mon is the second day of the week? Man did. That�s why Jesus said that "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." Matthew 15:9



I ask you, do you work on Sunday?



It is better to look back at what had we discuss,

1. you claimed that 10 commandments and law is different and you have no direct evidence but only implications. I said no and I gave instances where Jesus taught us to obey every Law and Law is only given through Moses not Jesus.



2. Then I challenged you to pick any OT law that had been overturned by teachings of Jesus: You gave examples of food, circumcision, sacrifice, etc. which I pointed out that there is no contradictory with Mosaic law.



From here, I can see that your knowledge of the Law is only elementary. How then, you can understand the need of Sabbath? On what ground, can you say that your understanding of Sabbath is true when you have so many misconceptions about the Law?

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DontHitThatMark

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FAITH ALONE OR WITH WORKS?
Posted : 16 Oct, 2009 10:07 AM

Look...I'm getting tired of this....lets say that the US senate or whatever...legislated that they were going to change the 2nd amendment so that only the militia could bear arms and not private citizens. Would the law be different/changed? You're saying that we don't need to sacrifice animals anymore because Jesus died. True. But it WAS IN THE LAW before Jesus died! They HAD TO SACRIFICE ANIMALS! It was REQUIRED BY LAW! We don't anymore! It is not required that male children be circumcised because it's "spiritual" now. BUT they DID have to do it, IT WAS REQUIRED BY LAW before Jesus died. The mosaic law has changed, if only by the definitions. The types met the anti type. But the point is IT WAS REQUIRED BY LAW to sacrifice actual ANIMALS before Jesus died. Now it's not. Your understanding of the law is drowned in symbolism. If a Israelite had said "Oh, I don't want to kill this little lamb, the Messiah is going to die in the future anyway, I'll just wait", he would have been cut off and/or killed on the day of atonement. It was REQUIRED by law. But again...just in case you didn't get it...NOW IT'S NOT!



God set in motion the 7 day weekly cycle. The last day of the week is always the sabbath. You say you get to pick, I say we should do as Jesus, God, and the apostles did. Jesus did work all the time, but what kind of work was He doing? Duh. Good work. It is lawful to do good on the sabbath. It is not lawful to LABOR on the sabbath. Somehow I don't think Jesus would be out pouring concrete for money on Sabbath. Maybe to help someone for free, but it is LAWFUL to do GOOD WORKS on the sabbath.



"I gave instances where Jesus taught us to obey every Law and Law is only given through Moses not Jesus."



Jesus was the one writing the Ten Commandments with His finger. Jesus spoke the whole law to Moses on the mountain. Moses did not give it, he only wrote some of it down



"From here, I can see that your knowledge of the Law is only elementary. How then, you can understand the need of Sabbath? On what ground, can you say that your understanding of Sabbath is true when you have so many misconceptions about the Law?"



Sorry, but that doesn't even deserve a reply. You're saying that because YOU think I'm wrong...that I must be wrong? Wow! That opens up some awesome ways to win arguments! You're wrong! I win! lol...sorry, but if I could be misinterpreting the law then so could you. We're only human. The thing is...God, Jesus, and the apostles are on my side on this one. Do what Jesus did. It's so simple if you just look.



And as far as the day "changing". I was born into this weekly cycle. It has never changed while I've been alive. I'm going to keep the last day of the only week I've ever known. It's not a commandment to keep the exact day that the first sabbath was ever on. It's a commandment to keep the last day of the week. Not your week, not my week...THE WEEK. No. I do not work on Sunday. Do you work on Saturday? Because that would explain a lot.



(sorry for the caps, I'm not "yelling"...just trying to get your attention)



:peace::peace:

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