You didn't say it manofgod, but you sure posted it in there enough. If you thought those posts were good enough to represent adventists then you agreed with them, whether you meant to or not. You could have said in your mind: "whoa...this guy is calling them heretics. I can see their conviction though...this guy is way off base". But you didn't. You decided slander was the better option...unconsciously or not. It doesn't anger me that you pointed to fallacies. It angers me that you're posting lies about my beliefs! I'll say it again! I know what I believe and at least 90% of what you were posting is either completely false or twisted! Would that make you angry?! If I started just throwing out false information about your beliefs?! I think it would!
"Calvinists think that Strong's Concordance is inspired!! They use it to interpret the bible!! Cult!!"
And God says everywhere that if you are willfully unbelieving, or if you willfully sin, you will not be in heaven. You just want to feel peace and safety when there is none.
1.Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."
2.Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"
3.Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"
4.Rom. 9:30, "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith."
5.Rom. 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."
6.Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
7.Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
8.Gal. 2:21, I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.
9.Gal.3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
10.Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."
11.Eph. 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. 9Not by works, lest any man should boast."
12.Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."
Again, works/Law is contrasted with faith repeatedly and we are told that we are not justified by works in any way. Therefore, we are made right with God by faith, not by faith and our works; hence, faith alone.
James 2:24, not by faith alone
The scriptures clearly teach that we are saved (justified) by faith in Christ and what He has done on the cross. This faith alone saves us. However, we cannot stop here without addressing what James says in James 2:24, "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone."
There is no contradiction. All you need to do is look at the context. James chapter 2 has 26 verses: Verses 1-7 instruct us not to show favoritism. Verses 8-13 are comments on the Law. Verses 14-26 are about the relationship between faith and works.
James begins this section by using the example of someone who says he has faith but has no works, "What use is it, my brethren, if a man says he has faith, but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" (James 2:14). In other words, James is addressing the issue of a dead faith, a faith that is nothing more than a verbal pronouncement, a public confession of the mind, and is not heart-felt. It is empty of life and action. He begins with the negative and demonstrates what an empty faith is (verses 15-17, words without actions). Then he shows that type of faith isn't any different from the faith of demons (verse 19). Finally, he gives examples of living faith that has words followed by actions. Works follow true faith and demonstrate that faith to our fellow man, but not to God. James writes of Abraham and Rahab as examples of people who demonstrated their faith by their deeds.
In brief, James is examining two kinds of faith: one that leads to godly works and one that does not. One is true, and the other is false. One is dead, the other alive; hence, "Faith without works is dead," (James 2:20). But, he is not contradicting the verses above that say salvation/justification is by faith alone.
Also, notice that James actually quotes the same verse that Paul quotes in Rom. 4:3 amongst a host of verses dealing with justification by faith. James 2:23 says, "and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, and Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'" If James was trying to teach a contradictory doctrine of faith and works than the other New Testament writers, then he would not have used Abraham as an example. Therefore, we can see that justification is by faith alone and that James was talking about false faith, not real faith when he said we are not justified by faith alone
Sabbatarians Falsely claim: "The pope changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday"
This false argument originated with the Adventist's inspired prophet E.G. White:
"The holy Sabbath looked glorious- a halo of glory was all around it. I saw that the Sabbath commandment was not nailed to the cross. If it was, the other nine commandments were; and we are at liberty to break them all as well as to break the fourth. I saw that God had not changed the Sabbath, for he never changes. But the pope had changed it from the seventh day to the first day of the week; for he was to change times and laws." (Early Writings of Ellen G. White, page 33, official Adventist publication) Again on page 65 of the same book Mrs. White says, "The pope has changed the day of rest from the seventy to the first day."
Ellen G. White was a false prophet: Colossians 2:18 "Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by... taking his (her) stand on visions he (she) has seen, inflated without cause by his (Ellen White's) fleshly mind" (NASB)
We can PROVE that Ellen White was a false prophet by proving that the Pope (Catholic church) DID NOT change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday! You be the judge!
Answer:
A. The first Pope did not exist until 606 AD! (over 500 years too late) This is far too late because Christians were meeting on Sundays from the earliest record of history. So Ellen G. White is a false prophet!
B. But Adventist's have modified White's argument (corrected the inspired prophet) Listen to what Seventh-day Adventists now teach in their public "Revelation Seminars":
"Sundaykeeping was introduced into the Christian Church rather innocently, and its first advocates never dreamed that it would take the place of the seventh-day Sabbath of God. Sundaykeeping had its origin in Rome during the reign of the Emperor Hadrian in the second century. Hadrian persecuted the Jews in Rome incessantly. In an attempt to separate themselves from the Jews and avoid being persecuted with them, these early Roman Christians began keeping Sunday in addition to the Sabbath." "Now That's Clear, Schreven, p97, 1994)
Hadrian was Emperor of Rome (117-138 A.D.) THIS IS LONG BEFORE the first Pope.
Seventh-day Adventists in the 1990's are refuting what their founding "prophet" Ellen G. White was "told by God in a vision"
Seventh-day Adventists claim that "Christians in Rome", changed the Sabbath, not the Pope.
Seventh-day Adventists OFFER ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF that Christians in the church in Rome changed the Sabbath!
Samuele Bacchiocchi, the Seventh-day Adventist's top scholar wrote in an E-mail message to the "Free Catholic Mailing List" on 8 Feb 1997 and said:
I differ from Ellen White, for example, on the origin of Sunday. She teaches that in the first centuries all Christians observed the Sabbath and it was largely through the efforts of Constantine that Sundaykeeping was adopted by many Christians in the fourth century. My research shows otherwise. If you read my essay HOW DID SUNDAYKEEPING BEGIN? which summarizes my dissertation, you will notice that I place the origin of Sundaykeeping by the time of the Emperor Hadrian, in A. D. 135.
This proves once and for all time that Ellen G. White was a false prophet!
Seventh-day Adventists also publicly teach:
The Catholics themselves claim they changed the Sabbath!
Quote out of Adventist Revelation seminar book: Catholic Catechism, Peter Geierman, The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50.
Q. What is the Third Commandment?
A. The Third Commandment is: Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.
Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."
Answer:
A. Catholics make all kinds of false claims!
There are lots of things the Catholics claim that Sabbatarians don't accept.
Do Adventist believe the Catholic churches claim that Peter was the first Pope? Of course not!
Catholics make all kinds of claims that are neither true or supported by history!
Just because the Catholics claim they changed the Sabbath doesn't mean they actually did.
We strongly dispute both the Catholic and Adventist claim that the pope changed the Sabbath day as the "inspired" Ellen White (Adventist prophet) claims!
B. The Catholic Pope could not have changed the Sabbath:
The first universal Pope did not exist until 606 AD! (over 500 years too late)
History records that Christians were meeting Sundays from the first century AD!
C. Sabbatarians have absolutely no actual proof of ANYONE changing anything!!!
If Sabbatarians had any actual historical proof the Pope "changed the Sabbath" LET THEM SUPPLY IT TO US AND THE WORLD.
D. IF YOU HAVE PROOF ANYONE CHANGED THE SABBATH: click here
We already know about Colossians 2:16-17 which say God abolished the Sabbath, so please don't send us that.
E. We have effectively proven Ellen G. White to be a false prophet by
the facts of history
the mouths of her present day disciples!
Sabbatarians have also said that Constantine changed the Sabbath to Sunday:
Constantine's decree: "On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed." (Constantine, March 7, 321. Codex Justinianus lib. 3, titus 12, 3; trans. in Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Vol. 3, p. 380, note 1)
Answer: Constantine did not change the Sabbath to Sunday, he merely created the first "Sunday closure law" because Christians had been worshipping on the first day of the week since apostolic times.
Sabbatarians can't get their story straight! Who changed the Sabbath? Is it the pope, Constantine or some Christians in Rome?
First they say the Pope changed the Sabbath. Then, when that proves false, they claim Constantine changed it! Then when that is proven wrong they now say that "Christians in Rome" changed the Sabbath to Sunday
There is nothing here to say that Constantine changed anything. Constantine is making a civil decree that because Christians were already meeting on Sunday, as they were doing since the time of the Apostles, that Christians should not work on Sunday. Read it again!
Today, it is not a sin to work on any day of the week! But it is a sin to not partake of the communion and give every first day of the week! Acts 20:7; 1 Cor 16:1-2; Heb 10:24-25
Three wrong guesses, you�re out!
The so called "inspired prophet" Ellen White originally claimed the Pope started "Sunday worship" White later changed her mind and said the Emperor Constantine introduced "Sunday worship" in 325 AD. Today, Adventists blame the interaction of Sunday worship on Christians in 135 AD and not the Pope or Constantine!
Guess #1: the Pope introduced Sunday worship.
The Roman Catholic Pope DID NOT change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday as Sabbath keepers falsely teach. Yes Catholics do claim they changed the Sabbath, but they also claim that Peter was the first pope! Sabbath Keepers reject the Catholic claim that Peter was the first pope, so they are in grave error for accepting the Catholic claim that the pope changed the Sabbath to Sunday!
Guess #2: It was Constantine in 325 AD.
Constantine (325 AD) DID NOT change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday as Sabbath keepers falsely teach. Christians never kept the Sabbath from the apostolic age (33 AD) through the time of Constantine (325AD). Constantine merely made the first "Sunday closure law", since it had already been the day Christians worship for 300 years!
Today�s guess #3: Christians in 135 AD.
The historical claims of Samuele Bacchiocchi, Seventh-day Adventist, refuted. Bacchiocchi is likely the top Seventh-day Adventist historian in the world. His search for the origin of "first day worship" has led him to reject the traditional position of his church, and his founding prophet, Ellen G. White who claimed "Sunday keeping" began with Constantine in 325 AD. His view, which is increasingly being adopted by the Seventh-day Adventist church, is that Christians in 135 AD were first to worship on the first day of the week.
The truth: Apostles in 33 AD introduced Sunday worship.
I just told you a couple posts ago dude. 7th day baptists were the ones that convinced the early Adventists of the sabbath truth. It was not Ellen White. There were popes as early as St. Clement I: 88ad - 97ad. Look it up before you paste it.
"In those dark days of disappointment in the fall of 1844 and during the months following, Mr. Bates, with others, sought diligently for light. Occasionally, before the great disappointment, individuals had brought up the matter of observing the seventh day as the Sabbath. At Washington, New Hampshire, Mrs. Rachel Preston, a Seventh Day Baptist who came to visit in the community, persuaded the members of the Adventist company of the necessity of keeping the Sabbath, and she joined them in looking for the second coming of Christ. This occurred about the time of the great disappointment. Shortly thereafter, two men, J. B. Cook and T. M. Preble, called the attention of the Advent believers to the need of Sabbath observance.
In the spring of 1845 Mr. Bates visited the company of Adventists in Washington, New Hampshire, who were keeping the Sabbath. Through their influence and the reading of the article by T. M. Preble, he was led to the observance of the Sabbath.
He began to keep the Sabbath in March, 1845, and was thus the first of the outstanding pioneer leaders of the Seventh-day Adventist people to accept the Sabbath. In fact, for more than a year he stood alone in teaching this doctrine, which later became one of the cardinal beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Once convinced of a reform, Captain Bates immediately took hold of it in earnest and began to proclaim it. This is well demonstrated in connection with his acceptance of the Sabbath. When he started across the bridge at Fairhaven on his return from the journey to the Washington Sabbath-keepers, he met a neighbor, a Mr. Hall, who called out, "Hello, Brother Bates! what's the news?"
"The seventh day is the Sabbath," earnestly replied the old sea captain.
As has been stated, he began at once to proclaim this new-found truth, and became the true father of the Sabbath among the people who were to become the Seventh-day Adventists. In August, 1846, he published the first Sabbath tract ever put out by Adventists."
1 John 2:6 (King James Version)
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
� The "Great Awakening" of the early 1800's in Northeastern USA
� The Millerite Movement-William Miller set two dates (1843 and 1844) for the second coming of Jesus
� Most Millerites repented and returned to their churches of origin.
� William Miller later repented and admitted he had been wrong to set a date
� Small group led by James and Ellen White did not repent; they taught that Miller's second date was accurate but instead of signifying the second coming, it marked the beginning of the judgment. Ellen White claimed visions from God confirming this understanding. She also claimed a vision stating that God "held his hand" over the error of William Miller's original date so people would be motivated to "get ready" for Jesus' return. God, in other words, deceived people to get them to change.
� Ellen's continuing visions and dreams established all of Adventism's doctrines although the church claims they are based on the Bible alone.
� EGW suffered serious head trauma from a rock thrown at her face when she was nine years old. She was unconscious for two weeks and was never able to concentrate enough to continue going to school following her injury, although she was tutored at home.
� Most of EGW's books are proven to be plagiarized from other Christian writers. Independent studies by individual scholars as well as by a church-appointed investigator have confirmed that as much as 80% of her most famous books was plagiarized.
� Near the end of her life (she died in 1915), EGW prophesied that Satan's last deception would be to make her own works "of no account". Result: Adventists who begin to question EGW and to pull away from the church suffer great fear and guilt that they may be falling victim to Satan's last great deception.
Distinctive Adventist Beliefs
� Christ's atonement did not end at the cross. In 1844 Jesus finally moved into the Most Holy Place in heaven and began the "Investigative Judgment". Each person's name comes under divine judgment beginning with earth's first humans and ending with the living. When a person's name comes under review, his eternal fate is sealed. After that time he may not repent. Until that time he has no eternal security because God has not yet judged him to see if he has repented of all his sins and been forgiven.
� The seventh-day Sabbath is the Seal of God. (Some now say it's the "Sign of the Seal".) All who are alive at the time of Christ's return will be keeping the Sabbath if they are to be saved.
� "Sunday keeping" is the Mark of the Beast.
� The antichrist is the papacy
� Before Jesus returns there will be an international Sunday law. Those who refuse to "keep" Sunday but keep Sabbath instead are those who will be saved. Those who choose to "keep" Sunday will be lost. The last test of loyalty is the Sabbath--not Jesus.
� The Seventh-day Adventist church is God's remnant church. Adventists have replaced Israel as God's chosen people. The Jewish nation will not figure again in eschatology.
� Satan is the scapegoat which carried Israel's sin into the desert on the Day of Atonement.
� Jesus is Michael the Archangel, a belief shared with Jehovah's Witnesses. (Some try to explain this belief by saying Michael the Archangel is another name for Jesus, yet they maintain that the referneces to Michael in the Bible are referneces to Jesus.)
� People experience "soul sleep" when they die. They have no eternal spirit; rather, the spirit that returns to God is their literal breath. The body goes to the ground; the breath goes to God. They are nonexistent until the second coming. The resurrection is a sort-of re-creation of the person out of the memory of God.
� Because of their lack of understanding of the nature of man, Adventists do not have a policy against abortion. Their statement allows for women to choose whether or not to have one.
� Also because of their misunderstanding of the nature of the human soul, Adventists do not have a clear doctrine on the nature of Christ. They cannot agree about whether or not he was born with Mary's sinful genes, and they likewise cannot agree whether or not Jesus could have sinned. They teach that he came to be our example, and since he kept the law perfectly even with his human inheritance, so can we.
� Hell is not eternal. There will be a cleansing fire to burn up the old earth and the sinners before the new earth appears. All the wicked will be annihilated in the fire. The most wicked will burn longer than the least wicked. Satan will burn the longest.
� The New Covenant is not really different from the Old Covenant. Since God never changes, all the requirements of the old are eternal. The New Covenant is just another way of expressing the old. We still have to prove to God that we're loyal by keeping the commandments.
� The promise in Jeremiah 31:31-34 that God would write the law on people's hearts simply means that God would imprint the 10 Commandments on people's hearts. If they are saved, they will be keeping each one including the fourth.
� The Holy Spirit is something for which they pray, not Someone they know and experience. They believe that the New Birth is baptism, not something that happens when you trust in Jesus. The result is that most Adventists do not have a personal testimony.
� They do not believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God. They believe it has errors and contradictions in it which they have to interpret in the same way they have to edit and interpret Ellen White. Some say the Bible is inerrant because God wanted those mistakes and contradictions to be there.
� Adventists do not have the security of salvation. Ellen White teaches not to say that you're saved because such a belief can lead to pride and eventual apostasy.
The Church Today
� May, 2002: Seventh-day Adventist General Conference president Jan Paulson, in an internationally distributed speech, affirmed all the distinctive Adventist doctrines including the necessity of proselytizing other Christians into the full "truth" and confirming the notion that Adventists give up the possibility of being saved if they leave the church.
� "The church is changing," many say. Not so. Adventists have to affirm the 28 Fundamental Beliefs when they are baptized into the church. These Fundamentals include the statement that Ellen White is a "continuing and authoritative source of truth."
� Highly effective PR Machine: Publicly they hide their distinctive beliefs in order to be accepted by the Christian community. Some Adventist churches have separate"community" churches that meet on Sunday and slowly introduce Adventist distinctives with the goal of switching Sunday attenders over to the regular Seventh-day Adventist church. Other Adventist churches meet on Saturday, call themselves "community" churches, and never use the name Adventist in their names or advertising.
� Most Adventists under 35 do not really know the church doctrines well. They are strongly bound to the Sabbath but don't know why. They believe they have to keep the Sabbath as a sign that they love Jesus--not, they will say, in order to be saved. Many will say they do not believe Ellen White, but they do not know how she shaped all their doctrines including the Sabbath.
� A relationship with Jesus is something one must have if he will get to heaven, but to Adventists that relationship is based on keeping the law. They do not understand the indwelling Holy Spirit and the new birth. They must prove their relationship by keeping the law, especially the fourth commandment.
� Some SDAs say everyone is born saved (universalism) because Jesus' death saved the world, but by persistently refusing to keep the law they "choose another god" and thus are lost.
Some Bible Texts: Adventist Interpretations and Evangelical Understanding
Revelation 14:11: "And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."
Adventist: The beast is the papacy, and the image of the beast is the coming international agreement to enforce Sunday worship. Those who accept Sunday worship, the mark of the beast, ("receive the mark of his name") will be burned and annihilated.
Evangelical: Those who align themselves with the spiritual and political power opposed to Jesus and receive its "mark" (specifics not yet known) will be lost and suffer in eternal hell.
Revelation 14:12: "This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus" (or "keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus" in the KJV).
Adventist: The saints are those who keep all ten of the commandments, especially the fourth. Those who will be saved are those who keep Sabbath and have "the faith of Jesus", which is defined in Revelation 19:10.
Evangelical: The saints must endure patiently. The saints are those who obey God's teachings and stay faithful to Jesus. (The Greek work for "commandments" signifies "teachings", not "law". John, the author of Revelation, defines God's commandments in 2 John 6: "And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love." See also John 15:12 & 17))
Revelation 19:10: "I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
Adventist: The testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy, and the Spirit of Prophecy IS Ellen G. White. (The Adventists call her writings "The Spirit of Prophecy". Her dreams and visions, they say, fulfill the requirement that the saints will have the spirit of prophecy. The Adventists, therefore, are the saints, and consequently rejecting EGW is rejecting the spirit of prophecy and hence rejecting the possibility that one can be saved.)
Evangelical: The angel speaking to John identifies himself as a creature who shares Christ-followers' personal testimonies of Jesus' work in their lives. Testifying about Jesus--speaking the truth about Jesus--IS the spirit of prophecy. All who testify of Jesus prophesy, or speak for God.
Hebrews 8:8-9: "The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." (quoting Jeremiah 31:31)
Adventist: The Adventist church has replaced Israel. All God's promises to Israel have been transferred to Adventists because the Jews gave up their right to be God's people by rejecting Jesus.
Evangelical: God promised to make a new covenant with Israel that would be different from the Mosaic covenant God made with them when he brought them out of Egypt.
Hebrews 8:10: "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts."
Adventist: God will imprint the 10 Commandments onto Christian's--specifically Adventists'--consciences. Once they accept Jesus, he will help them to keep the 10 Commandments. The focus here is that everyone who is God's person will keep the seventh-day Sabbath.
Evangelical: When a person accepts Jesus and is born again, the Holy Spirit indwells him. This "living law" holds a Christ-follower infinitely more responsible than an external written law could ever do. The Holy Spirit also convicts people of their need to change and provides the strength for change to happen.
Matthew 12:6, 8: "I tell you that one greater that the temple is here. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
Adventist: The Sabbath is an eternal institution, and Jesus is Lord of it in much the same way the Queen is the "lord" of England.
Evangelical: The temple was the center of Israel. It housed the presence of God and the ark containing the law. Jesus proclaimed that he was greater than the temple; in other words, He himself housed the presence of God-He was the presence of God. Further, the law was IN him. When he proclaimed himself Lord of the Sabbath, he was saying He was greater than the Sabbath. He is the eternal one, and in him we find the Sabbath rather than finding Him in the Sabbath, as Adventists suggest.
Acts 10:9-16: Peter received a vision of a sheet dropped from heaven and filled with ceremonially unclean animals, reptiles, and birds. "Then a voice told him, 'Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.' 'Surely not, Lord!' Peter replied. 'I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.' The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.' This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.
Adventist: This vision was to explain to Peter that Gentiles were no longer to be considered unclean. It had absolutely nothing to do with the Jewish food laws being no longer in force under the new covenant. It was just a symbol of not rejecting Gentiles. God doesn't change, so he wouldn't retract his food laws.
Evangelical: The vision made a multipurpose statement that the old Jewish ceremonial laws regarding clean and unclean meat and people no longer applied under the new covenant. In Christ, all the laws legislating exclusion were swallowed up in the reality that Jesus' death and resurrection opened the way for Jews and Gentiles to be one, no longer separated by ceremonial laws of clean and unclean or by dietary restrictions that required one to eat separately.
Luke 16:19-31: Jesus told a parable of a rich man who died and a beggar named Lazarus who died. The rich man went to hell, and Lazarus went to "Abraham's side", or heaven. The rich man begged Abraham to send Lazarus to him to cool his tongue with water. "But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.' "
Adventist: This story is "just a parable" and did not really happen. It says absolutely nothing about the state of man in death. It's just a popular story Jesus used to make a point about selfish rich people having a hard time getting to heaven because of their self-centered greed.
Evangelical: Jesus would not use a concept which was false to prove a point which was true. This story says something instructive about the condition of humans after death or Jesus would not have used it. He doesn't trick people into obedience by using untruth to teach truth.
Summary
Adventism teaches "another gospel" (see 2 Corinthians 11:4) requiring adherence to the law and discounting Jesus' finished work on the cross. It teaches unbiblical doctrines which obscure one's security of salvation and hold people in bondage to fear and works. Because it is founded on untruth, even its teachings about the nature and person of Christ are distorted and deceptive.
The foundational doctines of the Adventist church come not from God but from Satan. The church is a clever deception because it says the "right words" in public, but in reality it means something very different from what the Evangelical Christian community understands. Adventists on the whole do not have freedom in the Lord Jesus. Many are afraid, guilt-ridden, and not born again.
Because it was founded on deception, the Adventist church has a Satanic claim on it. All its doctrines are tainted. The Adventist church is a cult that is perhaps more dangerous than most because it is so subtle. It appears evangelical, but behind the facade is a body of belief that holds people in the myth that they are the only true church, yet they have no assurance of salvation.
God is calling his people to truth. Adventists need prayer that they will desire more than they have and will seek Jesus and his word for the answers
Ok, here we go again...this is the last time I'm doing this. If you post stuff like this in here again, I'll just re-post this. We can have the "Great Re-post War of 2009" if you want. Or you can accept that I know my beliefs, and people that hate my beliefs...don't know them...or are trying to twist them. I think you just want me to be in a "cult" so badly so you can disregard my beliefs, and the scriptural support for them.
� Small group led by James and Ellen White did not repent; they taught that Miller's second date was accurate but instead of signifying the second coming, it marked the beginning of the judgment. Ellen White claimed visions from God confirming this understanding. She also claimed a vision stating that God "held his hand" over the error of William Miller's original date so people would be motivated to "get ready" for Jesus' return. God, in other words, deceived people to get them to change.
**Half-true. James White and Ellen White are not our church leaders. That's false. The true part: We believe Jesus is in the temple in heaven as our high priest, cleansing it of our sins.
� Ellen's continuing visions and dreams established all of Adventism's doctrines although the church claims they are based on the Bible alone.
**Not true. The doctrines were established out of the bible, and I can prove everyone of them with scripture. Even some untwisted ones.:goofy:
� EGW suffered serious head trauma from a rock thrown at her face when she was nine years old. She was unconscious for two weeks and was never able to concentrate enough to continue going to school following her injury, although she was tutored at home.
**True.
� Most of EGW's books are proven to be plagiarized from other Christian writers. Independent studies by individual scholars as well as by a church-appointed investigator have confirmed that as much as 80% of her most famous books was plagiarized.
**False. Writing about the same stuff doesn't count as plagiarism, and most of the stuff that they say is plagiarized are quotes she referenced that other people have quoted. "So what does all of this mean in light of the plagiarism charge? Having established that she had utilized more of other writings than Adventists thought, the question became "How much DID she use?" In 1983 the Ellen White Estate underwent an extensive "marking project" using all of Ellen White's published works. They would highlight each and every line that was known to have a parallel in another author's book. The definition of "parallel" included all lines which showed a clear verbal connection, including paraphrasing. The Estate incorporated not only their own findings but everything that was in The White Lie and anything else that critics could bring forward. The end result?
Although this is an ongoing project, after 17 years of compiling data the studies show that less than 2% of all of her published work contains parallel lines. Keep in mind that this research is ongoing and the White Estate's database will be updated as more information comes in. Anyone is welcome to present their findings to the Estate for inclusion in the project. At least one critic has challenged Adventists to prove that Ellen White wrote more than 20% of the content in her books. In any court of law the burden of proof is on the accuser. If 80% of her writings can be shown to contain similarities, then let the accuser freely bring forth the evidence and add it to the less than 2% that has already been discovered by the combined efforts of her most vocal critics and supporters alike. As pointed out earlier, the "reaction of Adventists" seems to have become a focal point in the presentation of the charges. Suppose in 20 years from now it is discovered that Ellen White's use of other writers was actually double what we believe it to be today. The quotes of astonished Adventists in that day might paint a grim picture, but this increase would actually raise the total volume to only 4% (meaning 96% did not contain parallel lines). Even if all of her critics accumulated enough evidence over a 20 year period to quadruple the current percentage it would still mean that 92% of her work did not contain parallel lines.
Several factors that should be carefully considered when one attempts to accuse Ellen White of literary theft or deceit.
1) Her selections "stayed well within the legal boundaries of 'fair use.'"
2) "Ellen White used the some of the writings of others; but in the way she used them, she made them uniquely her own"--adapting the selections into her own literary framework.
3) Ellen White urged her readers to get copies of some of the very books she made use of--demonstrating that she did not attempt to conceal the fact of her use of literary sources, and that she had no intention to defraud or supersede the works of any other author.
� Near the end of her life (she died in 1915), EGW prophesied that Satan's last deception would be to make her own works "of no account". Result: Adventists who begin to question EGW and to pull away from the church suffer great fear and guilt that they may be falling victim to Satan's last great deception.
**Partly false. The full quote instead of just three words.(makes you wonder why they just picked out 3 words doesn't it?)
"The very last deception of Satan will be to make of none effect the testimony of the Spirit of God. 'Where there is no vision, the people perish' (Prov. 29:18). Satan will work ingeniously, in different ways and through different agencies, to unsettle the confidence of God's remnant people in the true testimony."--Letter 12, 1890 (1SM 48)
Many will be prophesying in the last days through the holy spirit. She is not just talking about her work. Prophesy in general will be under attack.
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call. Joel 2:28-34
But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Acts 2:16-21
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 12:17.
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Revelation 19:10
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. 1 Corinthians 14:1
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way. 1 Corinthians 12:28
Ever need to prove the scriptures came from God to someone? Show them Daniels predictions. Show them Revelation. Prophecy proves the bible. In the movement that William Miller started, the thing that brought the attention of the world onto him was that he predicted the fall of the ottoman empire through the bible. Well...and the stars were falling and the moon was turning red too...
Bible prophecy does come true. And it isn't over yet.
� Christ's atonement did not end at the cross. In 1844 Jesus finally moved into the Most Holy Place in heaven and began the "Investigative Judgment". Each person's name comes under divine judgment beginning with earth's first humans and ending with the living. When a person's name comes under review, his eternal fate is sealed. After that time he may not repent. Until that time he has no eternal security because God has not yet judged him to see if he has repented of all his sins and been forgiven.
**True. Jesus paid for our sins at the cross, and He is now judging them in the presence of God to vindicate His people from Satan's accusations in view of all the heavenly witnesses. Jesus will not cease His intercession until all of His chosen people have been tested. Meaning that the pattern of their lives show that while they are not perfect, they are willing to follow God in everything. God's grace covers the rest.
� The seventh-day Sabbath is the Seal of God. (Some now say it's the "Sign of the Seal".) All who are alive at the time of Christ's return will be keeping the Sabbath if they are to be saved.
**Partly true. Adventists distinguish the Sabbath because it's the main one that has been forgotten by most Christians. Catholics have a few more they forgot. However, it will not cause them to go to hell, unless they are presented with truth and they reject it in order to keep their traditions. Has to be a conscious choice to refuse truth. But in the last days it will become apparent that God wants His people to keep all the commandments. When God says "come out of her my people" He's telling them to come out of the false beliefs of Babylon, the pagan beliefs of the catholic church. Don't take my word for it. Study Revelation.
� "Sunday keeping" is the Mark of the Beast.
**Not just Sunday keeping. Traditions of man. All of them. Idol worship would be one too. Worshiping a man would be one.
� The antichrist is the papacy
**True. If you study Revelation and Daniel this is what you come to. There is no other religious power that fits the description better. And it is specific. It's not just some ambiguous prophecy about people that are against God.
� Before Jesus returns there will be an international Sunday law. Those who refuse to "keep" Sunday but keep Sabbath instead are those who will be saved. Those who choose to "keep" Sunday will be lost. The last test of loyalty is the Sabbath--not Jesus.
**Yup. That's what we believe. Satan wants to make war with the people that keep all of God's commandments. Just like he did in the dark ages.
� The Seventh-day Adventist church is God's remnant church. Adventists have replaced Israel as God's chosen people. The Jewish nation will not figure again in eschatology.
**False. Most people in the remnant church won't be adventists. But they will all be keeping God's commandments. The remnant church doesn't really exist as a denomination. And I don't think it ever will. It will just be "God's people".
� Satan is the scapegoat which carried Israel's sin into the desert on the Day of Atonement.
**True. Satan will burn for all the sins that He caused the righteous to commit. Jesus saved us from our sins and the responsibility for our sin falls back on Satan. He knows he has lost. He's trying to deceive as many people as possible so he won't have to suffer for their sin. For every person that truly believes in God...Satan will burn a little longer.
� Jesus is Michael the Archangel, a belief shared with Jehovah's Witnesses. (Some try to explain this belief by saying Michael the Archangel is another name for Jesus, yet they maintain that the references to Michael in the Bible are references to Jesus.)
**Half true. I believe they are references to Jesus. I do not believe Jesus is a created being like Jehovah's witnesses do. I believe He is the commander of the armies of the Lord. I believe He is the head messenger of Heaven. Our mediator. I believe it has always been His position to be the physical presence of God. And there are many verses that support this.
Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:25-29
And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so. Joshua 5:13-15 (angels do not accept worship)
Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Revelation 19:11-14
**Jesus is the commander of the armies of God.
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels. Revelation 12:7
"This is that Moses who said to the children of Israel, 'The LORD your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear'."This is he who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the Angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, the one who received the living oracles to give to us, Acts 7:37-38.
Behold, I send an Angel before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for My name is in Him. Exodus 23:20-21
Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 1 Corinthians 10:1-4.
And the Angel of God, who went before the camp of Israel, moved and went behind them; and the pillar of cloud went from before them and stood behind them. So it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel. Thus it was a cloud and darkness to the one, and it gave light by night to the other, so that the one did not come near the other all that night. Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the Lord caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea into dry land, and the waters were divided. So the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea on the dry ground, and the waters were a wall to them on their right hand and on their left. And the Egyptians pursued and went after them into the midst of the sea, all Pharaohs horses, his chariots, and his horsemen. Now it came to pass, in the morning watch, that the Lord looked down upon the army of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and cloud, and He troubled the army of the Egyptians. Exodus 14:19-24.
I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the Lord And the praises of the Lord, According to all that the Lord has bestowed on us, And the great goodness toward the house of Israel, Which He has bestowed on them according to His mercies, According to the multitude of His lovingkindnesses.For He said, "Surely they are My people, Children who will not lie." So He became their Savior. In all their affliction He was afflicted, And the Angel of His Presence saved them; In His love and in His pity He redeemed them; And He bore them and carried them All the days of old. Isaiah 63:7-9
And the Angel of the LORD said to him, "Why do you ask My name, seeing it is wonderful? Judges 13:18
For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. And the Angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen. And the Angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time. And said, "By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice." Genesis 22:10-18
**Anyway...it makes a lot of sense to me...Micheal is just another name. Jesus has many names. Just because he is referred to as "angel" doesn't mean He is created. Just means He is our messenger. Our mediator between God and man. It makes sense that if "no man has seen God", then Jesus would be our messenger. You're assuming that "angels" are a species, instead of just "messengers".
Angel(Definition)
1. A typically benevolent celestial being that acts as an intermediary between heaven and earth, especially in Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and Zoroastrianism.
2. A representation of such a being, especially in Christianity, conventionally in the image of a human figure with a halo and wings.
3. The last of the nine orders of angels in medieval angelology.
4. A guardian spirit or guiding influence.
5. 1. A kind and lovable person.
2. One who manifests goodness, purity, and selflessness.
Angel
Noun
1. Spiritual being attendant upon God.
2. Person of exceptional holiness.
3. Invests in a theatrical production.
4. The highest waterfall; has more than one leap; flow varies seasonally.
"Angel" is a name that signifies or is derived from: "a messenger".
� People experience "soul sleep" when they die. They have no eternal spirit; rather, the spirit that returns to God is their literal breath. The body goes to the ground; the breath goes to God. They are nonexistent until the second coming. The resurrection is a sort-of re-creation of the person out of the memory of God.
**True. I'm not sure what the memory of God is, but yeah. And the body and the breath make up the soul. We don't have some mystical floaty thing in our bodies.
� Because of their lack of understanding of the nature of man, Adventists do not have a policy against abortion. Their statement allows for women to choose whether or not to have one.
**False. Adventists believe abortion is evil, and murder. What I guess this is talking about is that the adventist church has no official stance when there are extenuating moral circumstances...such as the life of the mother and the baby being in danger, or life threatening defects that the baby has in the womb. The adventist church leaves those extreme cases to the decision of those involved.
� Also because of their misunderstanding of the nature of the human soul, Adventists do not have a clear doctrine on the nature of Christ. They cannot agree about whether or not he was born with Mary's sinful genes, and they likewise cannot agree whether or not Jesus could have sinned. They teach that he came to be our example, and since he kept the law perfectly even with his human inheritance, so can we.
**Jesus was born like we were, with all of our weaknesses, yet He didn't commit sin. He was born with the connection to God that we can have if we repent and accept his sacrifice. He died to make it available to us. He did nothing of His own divine power while He was on this earth. He said that we can do the works that He did, and even some that are greater. And we can keep the law perfectly through his grace. All of it.
� Hell is not eternal. There will be a cleansing fire to burn up the old earth and the sinners before the new earth appears. All the wicked will be annihilated in the fire. The most wicked will burn longer than the least wicked. Satan will burn the longest.
**True.
Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10 The dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. ... For there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave.
John 5:28, 29 All that are in the grave shall hear his voice, And shall come forth.
Acts 2:34 . For David is not ascended into the heavens.
Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day.
Ezekiel 18:4 . The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
1 Corinthians 15:51-53 . We shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, ... and this mortal must put on immortality.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first.
John 11:11, 14 . Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; ... Lazarus is dead.
Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose.
2 Samuel 7:12 Thou shalt sleep with thy fathers.
1 Thessalonians 4:14 Them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
The Saved /
--------------------
The Unsaved /
2 Peter 2:6 . And turning the cities of sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly.
John 12:48 . The word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to ... reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished.
Matthew 13:40-42 So shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather ... them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire.
John 5:28, 29 . The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the dead shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; ... they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Job 21:30, 32 The wicked is reserved to the day of destruction. ... Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb.
Psalms 37:10, 20 . For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be. ... But the wicked shall perish, ... into smoke shall they consume away.
Malachi 4:1, 3 The day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; ... and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up. ... And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet.
Revelation 20:9 . They went up on the breadth of the city, and compassed the camp of the saints about, ... and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
2 Peter 3:10 The elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Isaiah 47:14 Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.
Matthew 10:28 Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both body and soul in hell.
Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
**I don't believe the wicked are in hell burning. They have been delivered to the tomb until the last day when God will call fire down from heaven. The human soul is not immortal. Pagan belief. Paul says that when Jesus comes again "this mortal shall put on immortality". You say that the wicked get eternal life. I think the bible says that only the righteous receive eternal life.
� The New Covenant is not really different from the Old Covenant. Since God never changes, all the requirements of the old are eternal. The New Covenant is just another way of expressing the old. We still have to prove to God that we're loyal by keeping the commandments.
**The new covenant is that everyone, including gentiles can be in it. The old covenant was for the Jews only. They were under the direct theocratic rule of God in their government. Under the new covenant we accept God's rule in our hearts. The ten commandments are eternal. The law of Moses was for the Jews only. Jesus and Paul were making that distinction clear. Circumcision, food and drink laws, the sacrificial system, etc...all were done away with at the cross.
� The Holy Spirit is something for which they pray, not Someone they know and experience. They believe that the New Birth is baptism, not something that happens when you trust in Jesus. The result is that most Adventists do not have a personal testimony.
**...what? We pray for the Holy Spirit...then we know and experience it...I'm not sure what you're talking about here, but I'm going to say "false".
Luke 11:13 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!"
**How do we ask God for stuff?
Acts 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness.
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. John 14:13-24
**I'm really not sure what you're saying here...most of the adventists I know have a testimony if they've been baptized.
� They do not believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God. They believe it has errors and contradictions in it which they have to interpret in the same way they have to edit and interpret Ellen White. Some say the Bible is inerrant because God wanted those mistakes and contradictions to be there.
**False...you're the one that does this with Strong's concordance.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." John 3:16
"well...no...it just means "certain people" when it says "world"...not everybody. If you go to definition "8a" in Strong's concordance..."
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9
"Well...when it says "all"...it just means the saved"
"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:1
"And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again." 2 Corinthians 5:15
"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." 1 Timothy 2:4
"For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour
of all men, specially of those that believe." 1 Timothy 4:10
"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" Acts 17:30
Is Strong's concordance inspired? Should you use it to interpret scripture then?? It's not inspired, so isn't it dangerous to do so? Definition "5" says "world" means all people. Why did you skip that one? I'm not saying we shouldn't check the original Greek, but when you start picking your favorite definition...that's wrong. Good Adventists do not use Ellen White to interpret scripture. The weight of scripture interprets scripture. I look at Ellen White like you look at John Calvin, or Martin Luther, except that I also believe she is a prophet. There are some extremists that do try to interpret scripture with their favorite religious person in every denomination.
� Adventists do not have the security of salvation. Ellen White teaches not to say that you're saved because such a belief can lead to pride and eventual apostasy.
**Hmm...Partly true. I think I have more then Calvinists. You say there are "Christians" that "think" they're saved, but not really. They're just the rocky ground, or the thorny ground. How do you know you aren't one of them? If you believe you are saved and in the spirit no matter what...aren't you kinda saying you're infallible? I could see how that would lead to apostasy. You would be saying there is no way you could ever be wrong...hey, look! You are saying that!
� May, 2002: Seventh-day Adventist General Conference president Jan Paulson, in an internationally distributed speech, affirmed all the distinctive Adventist doctrines including the necessity of proselytizing other Christians into the full "truth" and confirming the notion that Adventists give up the possibility of being saved if they leave the church.
**False. But a question. If a Calvinist would renounce his faith and join the adventist church what would you say
� "The church is changing," many say. Not so. Adventists have to affirm the 28 Fundamental Beliefs when they are baptized into the church. These Fundamentals include the statement that Ellen White is a "continuing and authoritative source of truth."
**Good. As long as she agrees with the bible truth I've come to believe, I will respect her as a prophet.
� Highly effective PR Machine: Publicly they hide their distinctive beliefs in order to be accepted by the Christian community. Some Adventist churches have separate"community" churches that meet on Sunday and slowly introduce Adventist distinctives with the goal of switching Sunday attenders over to the regular Seventh-day Adventist church. Other Adventist churches meet on Saturday, call themselves "community" churches, and never use the name Adventist in their names or advertising.
**Never heard that. It must be new. There is kinda a falling out going on in our church right now. Some are saying we should be more inviting by compromising on stuff. Becoming more like the world in order to get more people in church. I say that's what happened to the apostles church right before the dark ages. They compromised with pagans. It just seems like there is a polarizing going on everywhere right now. In our evangelizing we do try to just use the bible only though. But that kinda is the way everybody should do it, eh?
� Most Adventists under 35 do not really know the church doctrines well. They are strongly bound to the Sabbath but don't know why. They believe they have to keep the Sabbath as a sign that they love Jesus--not, they will say, in order to be saved. Many will say they do not believe Ellen White, but they do not know how she shaped all their doctrines including the Sabbath.
**Wow...I must be older than I am...and all of my friends must be too! This is assuming at best. I'm sure there are a lot of denominations with uninterested youth.
� A relationship with Jesus is something one must have if he will get to heaven, but to Adventists that relationship is based on keeping the law. They do not understand the indwelling Holy Spirit and the new birth. They must prove their relationship by keeping the law, especially the fourth commandment.
**Whatever...misrepresentation. I keep the law BECAUSE I have a relationship with Jesus, not the other way around. And because I love Him I want to do all He asks of me. Is that so evil?
� Some SDAs say everyone is born saved (universalism) because Jesus' death saved the world, but by persistently refusing to keep the law they "choose another god" and thus are lost.
**False. Well...I guess some might. But the Adventist beliefs say that everyone has the "potential" to be saved. Not that everyone is automatically saved. But about young children. God says that unless we become like children we will not enter heaven. I think that means that children are innocent. They're innocent because they don't understand the nature of sin, so they are not held responsible until they do. Could be when they're 10, could be when they're 6, could be when they're 3. Only God would know. And I'm not saying we need to be ignorant of sin in order to be saved...you know what I mean...
----------------
~~Revelation 14:11: "And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."
Adventist: The beast is the papacy, and the image of the beast is the coming international agreement to enforce Sunday worship. Those who accept Sunday worship, the mark of the beast, ("receive the mark of his name") will be burned and annihilated.
Evangelical: Those who align themselves with the spiritual and political power opposed to Jesus and receive its "mark" (specifics not yet known) will be lost and suffer in eternal hell.
**Half-true. But I have to ask. Do you think Satan is stupid? Do you think he thinks he could convince the whole christian world to disregard the whole 10 commandments? His deception is going to be so great that if it were possible, even the elect would be deceived. The elect will know the false from the true, but not many others. The whole world is going to wander after the beast. So do you think he's going to say "forget the whole law of God"...or do you think he's going to say "Well...there's only really one that isn't applicable anymore...". And adventists believe the image to the beast is the protestants that don't come into the remnant church. The image to the beast gives the beast it's power. Want to know what I think is going to happen? I have no real biblical support for this...but I think Satan is going to come as an angel of light, and say "God is coming, you must believe this certain way or you will be lost!". Everybody will be like "Wow! And angel! He's so pretty!". The way we'll know he's lying is because he will tell us that we don't need to keep God's whole law. Then the plagues of God will start to fall, and Satan will blame the plagues on the people that want to keep God's whole law. "Look at my pretty wings! Those people are causing these judgments to fall on God's chosen people! They must repent!". When those people say, "No, God wants us to keep His whole law", Satan will execute his new found authority to entice, or threaten those people to change. Some probably will. But there will be some left that will not disregard God's commandments. Those will fall under severe punishment. They will "be the reason" God is punishing His "holy church". When in reality it's that the "holy church" will not be keeping God's commands so they will be counted with the wicked. They will be believing a lie, suffering strong delusion, keeping the traditions of man over the commandments of God.
----------
~~Revelation 14:12: "This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus" (or "keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus" in the KJV).
Adventist: The saints are those who keep all ten of the commandments, especially the fourth. Those who will be saved are those who keep Sabbath and have "the faith of Jesus", which is defined in Revelation 19:10.
Evangelical: The saints must endure patiently. The saints are those who obey God's teachings and stay faithful to Jesus. (The Greek work for "commandments" signifies "teachings", not "law". John, the author of Revelation, defines God's commandments in 2 John 6: "And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love." See also John 15:12 & 17))
**True. But I believe Jesus wrote the ten commandments. So I'm going to follow those as well. Moses wrote the law of Moses. Jesus wrote the 10 commandments with His own finger. Exodus 33:11 "And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle". Who did Moses talk to if no man has seen God at anytime? When Moses asked the Lord who he should say was delivering Israel, He said "Tell them I AM sent you". And when Jesus was on this earth He said "before Abraham was, I AM". He was saying He was God, and the pharisees tried to stone Him for it. Who did Joshua see? Joshua 5:13-15. I'm saying that no man gets to decide the ten commandments are gone unless they have a direct command from God. Where is it? Jesus said "I came to fulfill the law". True. He also said "not of jot or one tittle will pass away till all is fulfilled". Everything is not fulfilled yet. Jesus has not returned. He said He would.
------------
~~Revelation 19:10: "I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
Adventist: The testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy, and the Spirit of Prophecy IS Ellen G. White. (The Adventists call her writings "The Spirit of Prophecy". Her dreams and visions, they say, fulfill the requirement that the saints will have the spirit of prophecy. The Adventists, therefore, are the saints, and consequently rejecting EGW is rejecting the spirit of prophecy and hence rejecting the possibility that one can be saved.)
Evangelical: The angel speaking to John identifies himself as a creature who shares Christ-followers' personal testimonies of Jesus' work in their lives. Testifying about Jesus--speaking the truth about Jesus--IS the spirit of prophecy. All who testify of Jesus prophesy, or speak for God.
**Partly true. We believe Ellen White has the spirit of prophecy. She's just a regular prophet like any other prophet from the bible. We also believe there will be many prophets in the last days that will all have the spirit of prophecy. If you are an adventist then Ellen White agrees with what Adventists believe from the bible. So when someone says they "don't believe" something anymore. They're saying they don't believe the bible. Not just Ellen White. A house divided against itself cannot stand.
-----------
~~Hebrews 8:8-9: "The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." (quoting Jeremiah 31:31)
Adventist: The Adventist church has replaced Israel. All God's promises to Israel have been transferred to Adventists because the Jews gave up their right to be God's people by rejecting Jesus.
Evangelical: God promised to make a new covenant with Israel that would be different from the Mosaic covenant God made with them when he brought them out of Egypt.
**False. The true christian church has replaced israel. Everyone that believes on Jesus name. It has no denominational boundaries. The point is...at the end there will be a shaking. God will call all of His people out of error into his remnant church. Adventists are just trying to get ready for the call. Stockpiling oil. Who knows, maybe there will be something that we don't believe that we will have to change. Hopefully we will see it in time.
------------
~~Hebrews 8:10: "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts."
Adventist: God will imprint the 10 Commandments onto Christian's--specifically Adventists'--consciences. Once they accept Jesus, he will help them to keep the 10 Commandments. The focus here is that everyone who is God's person will keep the seventh-day Sabbath.
Evangelical: When a person accepts Jesus and is born again, the Holy Spirit indwells him. This "living law" holds a Christ-follower infinitely more responsible than an external written law could ever do. The Holy Spirit also convicts people of their need to change and provides the strength for change to happen.
**False again. Except for the last part. Everyone in God's remnant church will be keeping all of God's commands. Even the ones Jesus wrote with His finger on Mount Sinai. Even the 4th one.
---------
~~Matthew 12:6, 8: "I tell you that one greater that the temple is here. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
Adventist: The Sabbath is an eternal institution, and Jesus is Lord of it in much the same way the Queen is the "lord" of England.
Evangelical: The temple was the center of Israel. It housed the presence of God and the ark containing the law. Jesus proclaimed that he was greater than the temple; in other words, He himself housed the presence of God-He was the presence of God. Further, the law was IN him. When he proclaimed himself Lord of the Sabbath, he was saying He was greater than the Sabbath. He is the eternal one, and in him we find the Sabbath rather than finding Him in the Sabbath, as Adventists suggest.
**True. But again. If we love him we keep His commandments.
-----------
~~Acts 10:9-16: Peter received a vision of a sheet dropped from heaven and filled with ceremonially unclean animals, reptiles, and birds. "Then a voice told him, 'Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.' 'Surely not, Lord!' Peter replied. 'I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.' The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.' This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.
Adventist: This vision was to explain to Peter that Gentiles were no longer to be considered unclean. It had absolutely nothing to do with the Jewish food laws being no longer in force under the new covenant. It was just a symbol of not rejecting Gentiles. God doesn't change, so he wouldn't retract his food laws.
Evangelical: The vision made a multipurpose statement that the old Jewish ceremonial laws regarding clean and unclean meat and people no longer applied under the new covenant. In Christ, all the laws legislating exclusion were swallowed up in the reality that Jesus' death and resurrection opened the way for Jews and Gentiles to be one, no longer separated by ceremonial laws of clean and unclean or by dietary restrictions that required one to eat separately.
**False. We don't have to keep the food laws if we don't want to. Adventist just choose to because it is a good witness to the wisdom of God. Adventists are significantly responsible for the only "blue zone" in the United States. Because we rest on Sabbath(huge stress reliever), and because we try to follow God's edenic plan for health. However, it's not an issue of salvation. Some adventists might say it is but they would be lying. You can eat whatever you want as long as you truly believe you can, just remember that your body is the temple of God. Don't destroy God's temple.
---------
~~Luke 16:19-31: Jesus told a parable of a rich man who died and a beggar named Lazarus who died. The rich man went to hell, and Lazarus went to "Abraham's side", or heaven. The rich man begged Abraham to send Lazarus to him to cool his tongue with water. "But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.' "
Adventist: This story is "just a parable" and did not really happen. It says absolutely nothing about the state of man in death. It's just a popular story Jesus used to make a point about selfish rich people having a hard time getting to heaven because of their self-centered greed.
Evangelical: Jesus would not use a concept which was false to prove a point which was true. This story says something instructive about the condition of humans after death or Jesus would not have used it. He doesn't trick people into obedience by using untruth to teach truth.
**You're right, this is one verse the gives us trouble. But we believe the weight of scripture is proof of our beliefs. I already pasted the verses up there. But if this parable is taken at face value then it discredits revelation, and all those other verses. So one of them has to give if the bible doesn't contradict itself, and in my/Adventist's opinion, the weight of scripture wins out. And for the fact that it would mean that the wicked receive eternal life as well. I believe God will eradicate sin, burn sinners to ashes. Not leave them laying around the universe somewhere. Sin and sinners will cease to exist.
--------------
~~Adventism teaches "another gospel" (see 2 Corinthians 11:4) requiring adherence to the law and discounting Jesus' finished work on the cross. It teaches unbiblical doctrines which obscure one's security of salvation and hold people in bondage to fear and works. Because it is founded on untruth, even its teachings about the nature and person of Christ are distorted and deceptive.
The foundational doctrines of the Adventist church come not from God but from Satan. The church is a clever deception because it says the "right words" in public, but in reality it means something very different from what the Evangelical Christian community understands. Adventists on the whole do not have freedom in the Lord Jesus. Many are afraid, guilt-ridden, and not born again.
Because it was founded on deception, the Adventist church has a Satanic claim on it. All its doctrines are tainted. The Adventist church is a cult that is perhaps more dangerous than most because it is so subtle. It appears evangelical, but behind the facade is a body of belief that holds people in the myth that they are the only true church, yet they have no assurance of salvation.
**False. If my beliefs were so satanic and yours aren't, then why are a lot of your beliefs rooted in paganism? And We do not require adherence to the law. We do it because we love God. If you don't do it because you love God then you aren't really saved. The difference is, you say if you don't keep them it doesn't matter. I believe the bible says differently. If the 10 commandments were nailed to the cross, then why are we still under 9 of them? And why does James say if you fail in one point of the royal law you fail it all? Didn't he know it was gone? Wouldn't we still be lost if we were still under 9 of the commandments? And just because "the Evangelical Christian community understands" something does NOT make it the truth. God's word is truth. For almost 2000 years Christianity was in shambles because they were following what the "majority" was teaching. God has been calling His people out. We aren't out yet.
And I'm done. Like I said. I've answered a lot of points. Spent many hours doing it. If you are still not satisfied, and feel the need to continue calling my beliefs a cult by posting more stuff like this...I will just post this in response. I'm tired of repeating myself. So I'll just cheat, and copy and paste like you're doing, manofgod.:nahnah:
And I believe it's only about %70 false or misleading on this post! 24 false/misleading and 11 true! Good job!
