The Bible, the justice system and common sense dictates a person cannot testify on their own behalf. Therefore the Bible cannot testify on its own behalf.------------------------------ Since the New Testament did not exist at the time of its own writing, it is impossible for anything in the New Testament to testify about the New Testament. ----------------------------------- The Bible isn't a Book, but a collection of books by different authors. Therefore authors may testify for another book as long as they weren't the author of that book------------------- Where legitimate testimony exists, what is being testified to? For example Psalm 119 may testify about Torah; "the word is perfect" but that does not equate to inerrant, but rather, perfect for the job it is intended for.----------------------------
The bottom line is the Bible is a extremely valuable written record by and about the relationship with God.our physical and spiritual ancestors had. The Bible is a God inspired tool designed to bring us into relationship with the "Living Word" rather than bring us into relationship with a Paper Pope.
Here we go again, the “prophetic” thinks Jesus actually tinkered with God’s word and decided it’s high time we start loving our neighbors in the NT.
End quote
Correct!
The law was always about the heart. Deuteronomy 10:16 says to "circumcise the fore skin of your heart." The Messiah taught us that we should not commit adultery even in our heart, but this was not new at all! Even the 10th commandment teaches us that we should not covet our neighbor's wife.
"Maybe that explains Prophetic’s posts of scripture evidences are running circles around you"
David,
Now would be a good time to post one of those verses running circles around me proving Scripture gives explicit authority to Paul that supersedes the authority Moses and Jesus.
"The question is and always has been: Does Paul have the authority to expand, modify and add Commandments?"
End quote
First off, it's obvious that Paul himself believed in keeping the Law:
Acts 24:14 (NKJV) - "But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the Elohim of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.
Acts 25:8 - while he answered for himself, "Neither against the Law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all."
Acts 18:21 - but took leave of them, saying, "I must by all means keep this coming feast in Jerusalem; but I will return again to you, Yahweh willing." And he sailed from Ephesus.
Romans 7:25 - I thank Yahweh--through Yahushua the Messiah our Master! So then, with the mind I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, but with the flesh the Law of sin
Paul says that the doers of the Law will be justified and those who break it will be judged.
Romans 2:12 - For as many as have sinned without Law will also perish without Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law will be judged by the Law 13 (for not the hearers of the Law [are] just in the sight of Yahweh, but the doers of the Law will be justified;
The word that is translated "without Law" here is word #460 which means "not amenable to the Jewish/Mosaic Law". (See Thayers and Strong's lexicon). Paul says that we know His will and approve the things that are excellent when instructed out of the Law.
Romans 2:17 - Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the Law, and make your boast in Yahweh, 18 and know [His] will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the Law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the Law.
Here he says that when we break the Law, we dishonor Yahweh and blaspheme His name.
Romans 2:21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, "Do not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the Law, do you dishonor Yahweh through breaking the Law? 24 For "the name of Yahweh is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you," as it is written.
Here Paul twice states that we learn what sin is from the Law. This backs up the statement in 1John 3:4 that Sin is transgression of the Law.
Romans 3:20 - Therefore by the deeds of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the Law [is] the knowledge of sin.
Romans 7:7 - What shall we say then? [Is] the Law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the Law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the Law had said, "You shall not covet."
Here is a key scripture proving that Paul believed that thru faith we do not make the Law void, but rather we establish the Law (To cause or make to stand, #2476).
Romans 3:31 - Do we then make void the Law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the Law.
Here obedience is equated with righteousness (as defined by the Law)
Romans 10:5 - For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the Law, "The man who does those things shall live by them."
Therefore, we can see that it must have been obvious to Paul as well as quite obvious to his followers that Law obedience was expected.
The still present Old Covenant was indeed “… becoming obsolete and growing old, and ready to disappear” -Hebrews 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old >>IS<< ready to vanish away.
“If you are living according to the flesh, you are about to die.” (Rom. 8:13)
“I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that IS about to be revealed to US.” (Rom. 8:18)
“It IS already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for NOW salvation is nearer to us than when we believed. The night IS almost gone, and the day IS at hand.” (Rom. 13:11-12)
“The God of peace WILL soon crush Satan under >>>YOUR feet<<<<.” (Rom. 16:20)
Chuckles: it is very easy to understand that God inspired Moses to write the first 5 books of the OT just as God inspired Paul to write 14 books in the New and better Covenant.
Chuckles: Wehave severe disagreements on this forum but we all agree that the 14 books by Paul in the New Testament are all inspired by God and have **ZERO ERRORS** and all of Paul's commandments are also commandments of God. and all apply to the present day.
NOTE: Chuckles does not believe the following Scriptures by Luke who was inspired to write Luke and Acts are inspired by God??? Chuckles also does not believe God's word in 2 Peter 3:15,16 below was inspired by God. And so chuckles strongly implies the writings of Luke and Peter are also not inspired by God.
Acts 9:15: The Lord said to Ananias, "This man{Paul} is My **CHOSEN INSTRUMENT**to proclaim My name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.
Acts 26:16-18: The Lord said to Paul, " I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of **WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN AND WILL SEE OF ME! I will rescue from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in Me!"
2 Peter 3:15,16: Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our **DEAR BROTHER PAUL ALSO WROTE WITH THE WISDOM THAT GOD GAVE HIM**! He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand {For the Lost}. which IGNORANT AND UNSTABLE PEOPLE DISTORT, as they do other Scriptures to **THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION**!
Actually the question is not as you say that Paul has the authority to add new commandments but whether Paul was inspired by God to write new commands in his 14 books which is over half of the New Testament of God's inspired words.
John 16:12,13: Jesus says, "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all the Truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify Me because it is from Me that he will receive what he will make known to you!"
And holy spirit inspired the 8 writers of the 27 books of the New Testament to write everything Jesus told him to write which includes all of the 14 books of Paul.
THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “All authority in heaven and on ***EARTH*** has been given to Me {Not some RC Pope}. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** {The entire NT inspired by Jesus} I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!”
> Just as Jesus told the truth, so I tell you the truth. Just as they who heard Jesus tell the truth, accused of having a demon, so you accuse me of having a demon. My hope is you realize; you are essentially a modern Pharisaical Christian.<
Prophetic writes:
"Actually the question is not as you say that Paul has the authority to add new commandments but whether Paul was inspired by God to write new commands in his 14 books which is over half of the New Testament of God's inspired words."
> "Inspiration" does not equal "Authority".
Inspiration = the process of being mentally stimulated to do or feel something, especially to do something creative.
Authority = the power or right to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience.
Where are the specific Scriptures that explicitly give Paul "Authority"?
- there are none -
(Even Paul was called before the Council of Jerusalem for his reported misconduct. And you assert he had authority over the Commands of Moses and Jesus?)
Ananias was the man who Saul/Paul went to visit before the scales were removed. If they were removed in front of Ananias specifically, then I would assume he testified of it.
As far as Luke, where are you getting that look wrote solely based on the testimony of Paul? Luke was a historian, so as most historians do, they compile from multiple sources. I mean that's who the guy was. Many of the book authors were apostles, prophets, etc. Luke was something else.
I'm not contesting Moses or Jesus. But even still, we know Moses erred at times. No big deal, we recognize he was chosen by God, especially because of his humility.
As far as Jesus testifying, well it comes down to whether or not you are willing to accept Luke's account as well as that of Ananias.
Acts 9:15-17 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
-As far as the OT, let's at least consider several things for now. First, Saul of Tarsus (Paul), was from the Tribe of Benjamin, and so was King Saul, and most likely the name "Saul" was passed down through lineage.
- The last of the tribes established by birth was Benjamin, so on a side note, we have the last apostle being established as Paul from the Tribe of Benjamin, as Judas was replaced. (May go into this further later).
- The blessing of Benjamin would've been passed down through his lineage, which would be inclusive of Paul.
- Gen 49:27 Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil.
- Moses testified of Jacob's blessing to the tribe of Benjamin, and even expanded on it.
Deu 33:12 And of Benjamin he said, The beloved of the LORD shall dwell in safety by him; and the LORD shall cover him all the day long, and he shall dwell between his shoulders.
- Now this is reflective of the statements of Jacob and Moses pertaining to Benjamin, because if you look at them independently they seem different. One is saying the blessing is speaking of the "ravin of a wolf" and Moses is saying that he will be beloved of the Lord and He shall dwell between his shoulders and protect him.
- Thing thing is, Benjamin has two names. Rachel named him Benoni, Jacob named him Benjamin. In context of what those two mean, one is "Son of my Pain, and the other is "Son of my Right"
Gen 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died ) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.
- One important thing to note, and then I'll try to get back to more of this later. Jerusalem is part of Benjamin's right. He was allotted land North of the allotment of Judah, and South of Ephraim. It's also quite possible that this was the protection between the shoulder's that Moses was referring to.
I want to touch on this more later, but what I'm getting to is that whatever was anointed to Benjamin through Jacob, through, Issac, through Abraham, etc... eventually comes back to God as the author. This would've fallen to Saul of Tarsus/Paul.
Rom 11:1
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Happy to continue to discuss this with you, but let's focus on seeing what he can learn from it. I'm sure you have more great info to share. God bless. :)
you’re missing a distinction here by overlooking the fact that some people where **really demon possessed** and that others, like Jesus, **were only accused** of being demon possessed.
There’s a distinction here.
I’m all over “prophetic’s” case, because he’s like you, unable to make concept distinctions and definitely can’t make biblical distinctions as evidenced by his extremely anemic Bible interpretations.
You and “prophetic” are so much alike here.
Neither of you guys are hardly exercised forming clear distinctions. Either that or you guys just plain don’t want to for obvious reasons.
However, you have a slight edge on prophetic in the distinctions department, but he has a very slight edge over you in the doctrinal department.
But to start your lesson on distinctions, here’s some simple help.
For example, when I said you need to get rid of your “inner prophetic” and “that there’s probably an exorcist for that”, I was merely using parody.
Parody, Chuckk, isn’t actually intended to be taken literally. You see, I don’t believe you have a real demon, although I believe you are teaching the doctrines of demons just like your inconvenient cohort “prophetic”.
But here again, there’s a distinction between teaching and obsession. But If that’s still not clear just post you need more help
Chuckk, one reason I spark our conversation with a little parody and humor is because I need something to make an otherwise boring conversation a little more lively.
Your take away today is to practice making clearer distinctions between ideas.
There were 613 commandments in the OT and about 400 commandments in the New and better Covenant of faith and love. None of the 613 commandments in the OT were commandments were commandments of Moses but were all 613 commandments of God alone. And all of the 400 commandments of the 8 writers of the 27 books in the New and better Covenant are commandments of God alone. Only God has the **AUTHORITY** to make spiritual commandments. And only God inspires human writers to write His commandments that He has chosen for any particular dispensation.
Messianic Jews like Sadlup Hark and Chuckles all claim that Jesus made very few if any changes to the OT laws and that all of Paul's 14 books are not inspired or commandments of God and the Scripture in Acts 9:15 and Acts 26:16-18 and 2 Peter 3 :15,16 below are also not inspired by God.
Sadlup, Hark and Chuckles all believe that you can only be saved doing good works and by obeying OT commands which is exactly what Satan wants you to believe. At least Sadlup and Hark deceptively quoted out of context NT Scripture.
NOTE: Chuckles does not believe the following Scriptures by Luke who was inspired to write Luke and Acts are inspired by God??? Chuckles also does not believe God's word in 2 Peter 3:15,16 below was inspired by God. And so chuckles strongly implies the writings of Luke and Peter are also not inspired by God.
Acts 9:15: The Lord said to Ananias, "This man{Paul} is My **CHOSEN INSTRUMENT**to proclaim My name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.
Acts 26:16-18: The Lord said to Paul, " I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of **WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN AND WILL SEE OF ME! I will rescue from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in Me!"
2 Peter 3:15,16: Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our **DEAR BROTHER PAUL ALSO WROTE WITH THE WISDOM THAT GOD GAVE HIM**! He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand {For the Lost}. which IGNORANT AND UNSTABLE PEOPLE DISTORT, as they do other Scriptures to **THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION**!
Actually the question is not as you say that Paul has the authority to add new commandments but whether Paul was inspired by God to write new commands in his 14 books which is over half of the New Testament of God's inspired words.
John 16:12,13: Jesus says, "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all the Truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify Me because it is from Me that he will receive what he will make known to you!"
And holy spirit inspired the 8 writers of the 27 books of the New Testament to write everything Jesus told him to write which includes all of the 14 books of Paul.
THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “All authority in heaven and on ***EARTH*** has been given to Me {Not some RC Pope}. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** {The entire NT inspired by Jesus} I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!”
According to the story that Moses got from God there was only a burning bush and God who witnessed Moses’ calling. Paul also had God too! And a few bewildered folk that didn’t know what happened
But both Moses and Paul were given power to perform miracles before hordes of folk thus proving they were given authority to speak for and from God.
End quote
Sounds like a checkmate statement to me. Got to admit Chuckk, he has a point.
Peter walked and talked to Y'shua and he called Paul a brother unless you want to throw out the writings of Peter also..then you may as well throw out the book of Isaiah that Y'shua read from in the synagogue because it wasn't part of the Torah. So how do you even know that what happened to moshe was a calling?. Maybe he was hallucinating ...but there were miracles to confirm it like Paul's as David pointed out.
Deuteronomy 10:16 says to "circumcise the fore skin of your heart." The Messiah taught us that we should not commit adultery even in our heart, but this was not new at all! Even the 10th commandment teaches us that we should not covet our neighbor's wife.
