Thread: Eternal Security / Once Saved Always Saved. Is it Biblical?
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Eternal Security / Once Saved Always Saved. Is it Biblical?
Posted : 18 Mar, 2009 11:48 AM
Hi Everyone,
This article I wrote will be dealing with the issue of "Eternal Security" also known as "OSAS" Once Saved Always Saved". This theology is an off shoot from Calvinism's 5th point called "Preseverance of the Saints". What some of you do not know is that the belief of OSAS or "Onced Saved Always Saved" did not exist or come into being until the 1500s AD when John Calvin invented it. Prior to that, no record is found anywhere in Church history that anyone ever believed or taught this. The consistent view of Chritianity has always been that a true Christian could forfeit their salvation should they committ the one sin called Apostasy.
Those who believe in OSAS like Southern and Independent Baptists do will claim that if a person who is truly saved will never commit Apostasy or that if they do then they were never really saved to beign with. The problem with that philosophy is that it is not supported by scripture. If a Christian was not able to commit Apostasy, to deny Christ totally, then why did God in His infinite wisdon have numerous scriptures written to warn Christians of the potential of that very thing? It seems absurd for God to warn His saved Christian children if it were not possible they could forfeit their salvation. Let's look at some scriptures that deal with this.
Let's first deal with a passage where Jesus was giving a private teaching to His 12 Disciples.
John 15:1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
I want you to first notice that Jesus is talking about branches that are..."IN ME" in other words in Him, these are Christians, true believers, born again. They are "IN CHRIST".
3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4 Abide[continue] in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
I have interjected the word [continue] next to "abide" as that is what that word means. It also means to "remain in a given relationship".
5 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides [continues] in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
Now notice the word ..."IF"...in the next verse. The word "IF" denotes a CHOICE, a person's free will to choose. It is also making a conditional statement...."if you continue".
6 IF...anyone does not abide [continue] in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
Verse 6 above is very telling. Christ has placed a condition upon a person's salvation. A person has the Free Will to continue "IN HIM" or not to and notice the consequences "IF" a person does NOT continue. They are CAST OUT, withered and they are BURNED. This is a permanent condition. Eternally condemned. You cannot re-graph a branch that has been cast out, withered and burned. There is no more hope for that "branch", that person.
Let's look at what Paul had to say.
1Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Cor 15:2 By which also ye are saved,.... if.... ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
In the above passage Paul is making a very clear statement. He is stating that a person's salvation is "conditional" by using the phrase "IF" ye keep in memory what I preached unto you". The word "IF" is a conditional word and is in every translation written. 100% of all translators used this word for this phrase as well as the passage below. What both passages are clearly stating is that our Salvation is CONDITIONAL upon our CONTINUED FAITH in the Gospel / Christ. It has nothing at all to do with works. It is our FAITH in Christ, but it is still our choice to remain/ continue or not to. FREE WILL.
Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in [your] mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ....ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Note that Paul is not telling them of their need to obtain saving faith, but of their need to CONTINUE in their saving faith that they have already obtained and the consequence IF they do not continue which is forfeiture of their salvation. There would be no warnings if the threat and consequence of Apostasy were not real.
Paul consistently encouraged his readers but usually did so after he warned them of the dangers of committing Apostasy. Let me show you a pattern of writings he did regarding salvation, the dangers of "Falling Away" from the Christian Faith Encouragement to continue in the faith and how even he himself potentially could have become an Apostate or "Reprobate"/"Castaway"
Phil 3:9 � and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.
13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead,
14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
15 � Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.
16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind. NKJV
Acts 20:24 "But none of these things move me; nor do I count my life dear to myself, so that I may finish my race with joy, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God. NKJV
1 Corinthians 9:24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it.
25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown.
26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air.
27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.NKJV
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. (KJV)
There is an important analogy Paul is giving here. He is making it very clear in my opinion, that in order to receive an "imperishable crown" which we know is the crown of Life, we have to finish the race. We have to cross the finish line. Remember not everyone who is running in this race will cross the finish line.
Notice that Paul is saying that he must keep his flesh in subjection so it does not cause him to loose faith and abandon Jesus Christ. The Greek word for "castaway" is usually translated "reprobate" in the KJV. It is found in Romans 1:28, 2 Cor. 13:5,6,7, 2 Tim. 3:8, Titus 1:16, and Heb. 6:8. In the last passage it is translated "rejected." In every single case this word is used of the lost. If Paul was aware of the ever present peril of ultimately being lost through unbelief, we too need to be on guard.
Paul is again talking about running a race. He must love Track like me. LOL Notice he is encouraging his readers, who are CHRISTIANS I might add, to run the race in such a away as to receive the prize. He is not making any guarantees or any implications that they would finish the race but he encouraged them to do so. This encouragement was also more of a warning to them.
Hebrews 12:1 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,NKJV
Same theme. Run the race WITH ENDURANCE. Persevere to the end.
Mat 24: 13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved. NKJV
Jesus laid the foundation above that Paul continued to preach upon.
2 Tim 4: 6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand.
Paul knew his time to die was coming very soon and he imparted some final words.
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing. NKJV
Paul was ready to die and he made it plain that he had finished the race and that he had KEPT THE FAITH. What is the opposite of keeping the Faith? NOT keeping the faith. Falling back unto UNBELIEF. APOSTASY. Forfeiture of one's Salvation.
There is a distinct difference between Arminian Theology and Weslyan.
Weslyan theology, which is what Assembly of God, Methodists and a few others believe, teaches that a Christian can lose their salvation by committing certain sins like adultery and fornication and then if the person repents then they regain their salvation back. That is simply not biblical and makes their salvation somewhat of a works based faith which is not biblical.
Arminian theology teaches that once a Christian has committed Apostasy, then they can never come back. They can never be forgiven again. Once salvation has been forfeited there is no more hope for that person. Coincidentally, this is also what the Earliest Church Fathers of the first two centuries taught. :-)
There are no number of sins or sins per se that will cause a Christian to lose their salvation. There is only one sin and one sin only that causes a Christian to "Forfeit" their salvation and that sin is called "Apostasy"aka "falling away." That is a total and complete rejection of Christ and His teachings. It is falling back to a state of UNbelief.
What is "Apostasy?"
According to Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, "Apostasy" is defined as "the determined willful rejection of Christ and His teachings by a Christian Believer [Heb. 10:26-29; John 15:22]. This is different from false belief, or error, which is the result of ignorance."
The nature of apostasy requires that one be a believer first, then turn away from God.
Paul warned just as Jesus did that in the last days there WILL BE a "Falling Away" from the faith. In 2Thess 2:3 Paul gave this warning of an event that will occur. So what is it?
Neuter of a (presumed) adjective from a derivative of G868; properly something separative, that is, (specifically) divorce: - (writing of) divorcement.
Apostasy is akin to a Divorce. A Christian divorcing from Christ. When this occurs, you are no longer His. You are no longer a Christian. You are no longer saved.
So how does this happen to a Christian?
Heb 3:12-14
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of UNBELIEF,...... in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; (KJV)
Let's examine some key points here.
1) This passage is clearly addressed to the "Brethern". These are Christians. Jewish Christians but Christians nevertheless.
2) The warning is concerning Christians possibly developing an evil heart of "UNBELIEF" and if so, their departing from the living God. You cannot depart from God unless you are with God to begin with. How does this occur?
3)" lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin". Here we see that staying in a sinful lifestyle can harden a Christian's heart. That is what sin does. It hardens a person's heart to a point that they can fall back to a state of UNbelief and depart from God. This is what Apostasy is. A total rejection of Christ BY a Christian believer. Hardening is something that does not occur over night. It takes time but for each individual that time will vary.
4) 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Here is the condition placed upon our salvation. We are made partakers of Christ, ..."IF" we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end. What does that mean? It means that as long as we continue to believe in Christ, then we will remain a partaker of Christ.
Paul also related this same situation to the Christians in Rome. Paul was explaining to these Gentile Christians about unbelieving Israel and how some of the natural branches (Jews) were broken off so that Gentile Christians could be grafted into the vine. Then Paul gives a similar warning as Christ did.
Rom 11:19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. NKJV
Paul was warning these Gentile Christians not to be haughty but to fear. In other words do not be so secure in thinking that it is not possible for you as a Christian to fall back into "unbelief" and be cut off from God just as some Jews were.
Conclusion.
The scriptures above clearly refute the False teachings of OSAS and "Perseverance of the Faith". Calvinisms 5th point cannot stand.
We as Christians have a responsibility to choose to continue in Christ, "endure until the end" or not to. God does not force salvation on anyone nor does He stop a Christian from committing Apostasy.
1Cor 10:12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.
Eternal Security / Once Saved Always Saved. Is it Biblical?
Posted : 3 Apr, 2009 01:25 PM
Hi Jeff,
JEFF:
i do both... i compare commentaries with other commentaries, and yes i also look at the actual scripture. i compare the commentaries with the scripture, to see if the verses actually support the commentaries...
are you going to say that you came up with your belief all by yourself? or just by reading straight from the bible?
or
did you study the studies of other people also to come up with your reasoning. did you compare notes? commentaries? or did you just come to your reasoning all by yourself?
WALTER: Yes Jeff I came to understand the truth of God's word by studying God's word, studying Greek and being led by the Holy Spirit and not by reading commentaries. Commentaries can be biased and a person who is unskilled in how to study God's word can be persuaded to believe as a commentary lays it out.
Col 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.NKJV
JEFF: anyways... like most debates, this one isnt ending.
if one gets angry with the lord... and he holds a grudge against God, is that an act of apostacy?
WALTER: I have laid out the exact definition of what Apostasy is, not my opinion of it but what it actually is. Why do you resist the meaning and nature of the word? Why do you ask a question that does not conform to what Apostasy is when I have spelled it out for you? Are you truly studying what I am posting?
JEFF: on your first post you said there is no verses that support calvinism... i have shown you otherwise by giving you plenty of verses that contradict your view... except for a few you have responded to, you dont tackle them... you havnt told me that you disagree and why you disagree... but instead you just keep reposting the same verses to prove your point... i thought you were going to respond to that whole commentary that i coppied and pasted...
WALTER: Yes Jeff I am going to respond to that whole commentary but I have been discussing these matters with you which takes away from me responding to that post.:-) You have not shown any scriptures that refutes Arminian Theology whatsoever. The verses you presented have not proven Calvinism whatsoever. Those I have addressed were debunked with sound exegesis. If you are talking about the 100 plus verses that you posted that you "believe" supports Calvinism, you are sadly mistaken. If you think that by trying to overwhelm me with verses that somehow proves your point, again you are sadly mistaken. That's why I told you before that this subject will take time and apparently you want to try and settle this thing quickly. It is not going to happen that way. If you really want to come to the knowledge of the truth, you are going to have to be patient and go slowly and shorten your posts. You also my Friend have not addressed the scriptures I presented that refutes your beliefs. Why is that? Why are you unable to demonstrate where my exegesis is in error?
JEFF:why did i copy it and paste it instead of typing all of it by myself? why would i type all that myself, if i can just copy and paste... saves me a lot of time. as long as i read it and agree with it, before i post it. i see nothing wrong with that.
WALTER: Jeff I could do that all day with you too but it doesn't accomplish what needs to be accomplished. If you are unable to express what you believe in your own words then it is likely that you do not fully understand what you think you do. It's ok to quote others Jeff, I do that too at times, but the majority of what I post is from me. I understand Calvinism and Arminian Theology thoroughly. You have demonstrated that you do not understand Arminian Theology and also do not fully understand Calvinism. You have grossly misrepresented Arminianism and quoted others that have as well. If you understood Arminian theology you would have never said some of the things you have. The problem as I see it is that you have not studied Arminian theology from those who hold to Arminianism but instead have read what others think it is usually from a very biased twisted Calvinist perspective.
JEFF: "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."
WALTER: This is where you have not learned to examine the context and the application of a verse. I have already addressed this and you have yet to show me where my exegesis is in error. I will address this again. Ask yourself the following questions Jeff.
1) Who was Jesus talking to?
2)Who was Jesus SPECIFICALLY talking about?
3)Is this a general application for all Christians or is it focused on a certain group?
4)What does the grammar say? Literal interpretation!
Let's look and see.
John 6:37 All that the Father "gives" Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
Jeff this can be a general application to people who become Christians as the word "GIVES" is written in the "future tense". There is an obvious assumption here and that the text is addressing people who become Christians. This verse cannot be taken to mean that a person cannot commit Apostasy. The text does not address this issue.
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
Next is critical to understand.
39 THIS IS THE WILL OF MY FATHER... who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I "SHOULD" lose nothing, but "SHOULD" raise it up at the last day. NKJV
First we have to understand that it is the will of God. This means that it is God's DESIRE. It does not say His desire will be accomplished and in fact the rest of the verse makes it abundantly clear that His will being accomplished is only a "POSSIBILITY". The word "SHOULD" is in a "subjunctive mood" which makes this only a possibility and NOT a certainty. IS God's will always accomplished? Please answer this.
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim 2:3-4).
"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9).
It is God's will that no one is lost and that ALL,....everyone, every single person on this planet... gets saved.
Does everyone get saved? Does everyone come to repentance?
It is God's will that we do not fornicate. Do Christians still fornicate? It is God's will that we do not gossip? Do Christians gossip? And on and on.
Jeff,...do you understand this verse any better now? Do you see how this verse does not address Apostasy and that it clearly demonstrates that God's will for people not being cast out is not a certainty? That is what the Grammar says. Are you going to fight the grammar or accept it.
JEFF: i pray if your right, then that you never commit appostacy. if your right then, dont be so confident in your salvation either... your going to have to work hard to keep your faith ;) if this appostacy is true.
WALTER: works play no part in keeping one's faith in Christ
(salvation), it only requires endurance of one's faith.
John 15:6 IF... anyone does not CONTINUE in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
Mat 24:12 And because lawlessness will abound, the[agape] love of many will grow cold.
Mat 24:13 But he who ENDURES... to the end... shall be saved.
