Thank you Phillip John for defending Gods' word that holds true posted on page two.
Walter I beg to differ with your statement on page 1 and 2. You stated that humans do not have the power today as it was in the past.
Believers' have the same authority as Jesus Christ. His Word is ALIVE, and is the same today as yesterday. We have the same power as Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit who lives in us. Some believers may not have the depth of faith to use these powers but there are many who do.
PhillipJohn stated the perfect scripture passage and the Lord speakes through them today:
And these signs will follow those who BELIEVE: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they drink anything deadly; it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
Those who BELIEVE will have these powers.
We read in the Bible of men and women who witnessed God's supernatural acts but for some people it is difficult to Believe such things could have occurred until we have our own personal experience knowing it was beyond our own human capabilities. We call it miraculous, an unearthly event or a supernatural occurrence that changes our human natures skeptical views forever. It broadens our wonders of God and we put our trust in Him and come to an understanding that with God all things are possible.
But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh (Acts 2:17);
I believe we are living in those last days and He is pouring out His Spirit on all who BELIEVE. Thank you Lord Jesus.
dear love, nice post there.. belief , faith are required... i do agree..
it is my belief that the person is never the one doing anything except believing and having faith .. and the folks recieving are having that belief and faith also..
its all the works of the HOLY SPIRIT.. man takes no credit or recieves no glory.. glory only be to GOD for things that are well and good. man is just sometimes the vehicle that GOD chooses to use to fulfill HIS will. even in biblical times miracles were not done for the glory of man.. yet so folks could see the glory of GOD ...
and its also good to remember than even though JESUS and his deciples
and yes even others that were were not following HIM were casting out demons in HIS name ...
even though all of them were healing and casting out demons ,they did not heal the whole world.. as in healing every sick person out there ..or goin in to hospitals and healing everyone in there.. yet only the ones that were chosen within GODS will.. were healed.. .
i believe there was always a reason behind each healing and demon casting out.. GODS reasoning which we cant always comprehend ...
john 11:40-44 40 Jesus said to her, "Did I not say to you that if you would believe you would see the glory of God?" 41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead man was lying. And Jesus lifted up His eyes and said, "Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. 42 And I know that You always hear Me, but because of the people who are standing by I said this, that they may believe that You sent Me." 43 Now when He had said these things, He cried with a loud voice, "Lazarus, come forth!" 44 And he who had died came out bound hand and foot with graveclothes, and his face was wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, "Loose him, and let him go."
luke 9:49-50 49 Now John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow with us."
50 But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side."
so should we forbid people to do so today? JESUS tells us not to here..
ive seen personally where in my home church years ago where the whole congrgation got behind this woman who had just been checked and confirmed to have uterus cancer with a large tumor there.. as she d asked for prayer and everyone there that day toutched each others shoulder and those closest to her toutcher her shoulders... and we all prayed a long time over her..
well she went to the docs that monday and they couldnt find a trace of a tumor or any cancer on her anywheres... the docs couldnt explain it.. but we could .. glory be to GOD..
now im not a person that GOD uses to physically heal folks. nope i aint.. i dont claim to be..
but i did have a great uncle that was used by GOD to physically heal folks.. i didnt witness this myself but my older grandparents and my parents seen him stop bleeding in artery wounds made on the farms.. just by toutching them there.. and many other things they spoke of he did.. but always giving glory to GOD...
now as for me personally my mom told me he healed something for her and so i went to him to to be healed too ..
and the LORD used him to heal my ailments.. praise GOD..
so to me its very hard to tell someone it cant be possible when one has been healed themselves personally.. amen
Hey Love and Thunder!! Thank you so much for sharing!! :) This is a touchy subject for some and I'm so happy that y'all didn't care to step out and share your thoughts and experiences....this includes you too Cattle, sorry!
I would like to ask what the difference is between demonic possession and demonic oppression?
THUNDER, I would like to ask if you would share with us how you went about casting out those demons?
This topic has always caught my attention. I was hoping this sortof discussion would begin when I started this post..better late than never! :)
CATTLE, your story is absolutely wonderful!! Glory to GOD!!
I just posted a lecture here and there was a glitch in my computer and it didn''t post. Little devils!! LOL! I'll write as much as I can remember again.
The difference between demonic possession and oppression is that possession is internal. The demon literally lives in the person and controls their mind and body. Oppression is external. Paul spoke of being oppressed by a demon and called it a thorn in the flesh. 2Co 12:7 and that by the exceeding greatness of the revelations I might not be exalted overmuch, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of the Adversary, that he might buffet me, that I might not be exalted overmuch. I had an experience with oppression that was very extreme.
I met a woman the night she called my church and told one of the pastors that she had a demon in her house and she didn't know what to do. I rounded up a team of prayer warriors and off we went. We talked with her for a while and she told us the demons name was Leviathan. Leviathan is a serpent and is also the spirit of Jezebel. We went outside to pray about what to do for her and my son told us how he had seen her being surrounded by a large snake that looked like a Python. We then knew what we were up against. She was set free that night and became a great and powerful servant in our ministry to the people in the housing projects.
OK, how did I cast out demons? I told them to leave and they did. Some argued and didn't want to go. They cried and whined and threatened me, but they went.
Here is what I know from study and experience. 1. You do not have to say "in Jesus name" or " I rebuke you in Jesus name". When Jesus told us to do things in His name he did not mean that we had to say it every time we did it. The word name means the nature and character of something.
Joh 6:56 The one partaking of My flesh and drinking of My blood abides in Me, and I in him.
Joh 14:20 In that day you shall know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you.
Joh 15:7 If you remain in Me, and My Words remain in you, whatever you desire you will ask, and it shall happen to you.
If we believe we are 'In Christ" then we are in His Name as well. Further, this is also a position of authority. A police officer arrests someone in the name of the law. He has the law and the government backing him up. In the same way we act in Jesus name. It is in his authority we act. We know a police officer is a police officer because of his badge and uniform. We have the seal of the Holy Spirit. Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise. . . and we are armed with Truth and Righteousness Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; etc. Demons know who and what we are. We don't need to introduce ourselves.
2.Acts 19:13-16 is a good example of the fact that you should know what your are doing when dealing with demons. Demons will attack you and can hurt you and apparently send you running away naked!!
3. The word spirit means wind or breath and also means a mentality or mind set and in some cases it is an illness. It does not always refer to a spirit being or demon. We say we are in good spirits or that a horse is spirited. This is in reference of a mind set. Many times the Bible uses the word spirit as a kind of mindset or illness.
Luk 13:11 And, behold, there was a woman having a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bent together and was not able to be completely upright.
Rom 11:8 even as it has been written, "God gave to them a spirit of slumber, eyes not seeing and ears not hearing" until this day.
1Co 4:21 What do you desire? Shall I come to you with a rod, or in love and a spirit of meekness? 1Co 2:12 But we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit from God, so that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God.
1Co 2:16 For "who has known the mind of the Lord?" "Who will teach Him? " But we have the mind of Christ.
Finally a kind of funny story: I was in a church in Tennessee several years ago and was talking with some friends. A young man came by us and he was sniffing the air. I had to stop him and ask what he was doing. "I'm discerning spirits", he said. I said, "Oh, you can smell them?" He confirmed that he was able to smell spirits so I asked him what the demon that fed him this lie smelled like. He became offended and angry with me but I insisted he listen to me and we spent the entire service outside talking about it. He received my teaching and had a completely different and far more Biblical perspective.
Wow!! That is fascinating!! Glory to God!! :applause:
Mr. Thunder, I have many questions, if you don't mind. But please know that I'm not "questioning" you, only asking questions as I am ignorant of these things.
How did the lady know it's name was Leviathan?
Was it an oppressor since your son was able to see it outside of her?
Once they are cast out, will they return?
What gift is it that your son has been blessed with to be able to see demons?
Does he also see angels?
My uncle (ordained) told me of an incident he had once. He was the lead youth minister of a fairly large church and they were doing a wonderful work of God. He woke up one night to, what he describes, as an unearthly, unhuman, putrid smell. When he opened his eyes, a lamp had been turned on and he saw a demon sitting in a chair across his bedroom. The demon tried to scare him with his words, but my uncle told him to leave and said, "and turn that light back off!" lol! And sure enough, it left and turned the light off!! Praise God! He is now married to a lovely woman of God that might have the same gift as your son.
You said: Walter I beg to differ with your statement on page 1 and 2. You stated that humans do not have the power today as it was in the past.
Believers' have the same authority as Jesus Christ. His Word is ALIVE, and is the same today as yesterday. We have the same power as Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit who lives in us. Some believers may not have the depth of faith to use these powers but there are many who do.
PhillipJohn stated the perfect scripture passage and the Lord speakes through them today:And these signs will follow those who BELIEVE: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they drink anything deadly; it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
Those who BELIEVE will have these powers.
WALTER: I don't believe that any of us has the "same authority as Jesus Christ". As Christians when we ask for things in prayer we do so "in His name" which means under His authority, but that is not the same as having His authority. If we had the same authority as Jesus then all of us could clear out every hospital and cure every decease and affliction. We could raise the dead. Do you see the difference?
I believe you missed where I addressed this scripture in Mark. Let me go over it again because this passage is really critical.
I will place in [brackets] whom Jesus is talking to and referring to to help clarify what the Grammar in the Greek says that English is not as accurate.
Mar 16:15 And He said to them,[Apostles] "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. [general application to all]
17 And these signs will follow those who believe:[those who believe is present tense. Those who are currently believing, not future tense] In My name they [those who were currently believing]will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
19 So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, [ the Apostles] He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.
20 And they [the Apostles]went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them [ the Apostles] and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen. NKJV
Act 5:12 And THROUGH the hands OF THE APOSTLES many signs and wonders were done among the people. And they were all with one accord in Solomon's Porch.
Acts 8: 17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. (talking about gifts)
18 And when Simon saw *** THAT** through the laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,
19 saying, "Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit." NKJV
I want to point out a few things about the Mark passage. First when the scripture here refers to "these signs will follow those that believe" and they will take up serpents, etc.,...this is talking about those who received the word of God FROM the Apostles and had hands laid upon them BY the Apostles. That as we have seen above is the normal method that a person received a spiritual gift. The words "those that believe" is written in the present tense. This means those who were believing AT THAT TIME. We cannot apply this in a future tense to include any and all Christians throughout history. The Grammar simply does not allow for this. This is the proper interpretation of this passage. The Greek fully supports this.
Now what is the "application" of this so far? Can we apply this for Christians today? I don't believe so because if that were true then Christians claiming to have received supernatural gifts would have these exact same powers as those above. They/ WE would be able to handle serpents and not be harmed... and also we could drink poisons and not be harmed. So I do not see any Biblical evidence to support the gifts being for today.
Thanks for the reply T. first let me tell you that I am not an expert in this field. Most of what I know has come from Bible study and my own personal experiences. Other people will always have different views on this and you should always consider what others say about it and do the research and study for yourself in order that you will know what you believe.
How did the lady know it's name was Leviathan? Apparently she and the spirit were acquainted and had several conversations. Her boy friend at the time told us that she was very controlling in their relationship and often sought to bring him down emotionally and spiritually. This would be a characteristic of Jezebel. This spirit seeks to destroy prophets and men of god with powerful words of Truth that they are preaching or teaching. If you want to know more about this I suggest you read the book, "The Elijah Legacy" by David Davis. It is a very enlightening book on this subject as well as the ministry of prophets and the current struggles in Israel, Islam and the Church.
Was it an oppressor since your son was able to see it outside of her? Yes. Possession requires the occupation of the human body. The spirit reveals itself by speaking through the person. In this case the spirit never spoke directly through her.
Once they are cast out, will they return? They can and they will bring their friends along too. Mat 12:43 But when the unclean spirit goes from a man, he goes through dry places seeking rest and does not find it.
Mat 12:44 Then he says, I will return to my house from which I came out. And coming, he finds it standing empty, swept and decorated.
Mat 12:45 Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more evil than himself, and entering dwells there. And the last things of that man become worse than the first. So it will be also to this evil generation.
What gift is it that your son has been blessed with to be able to see demons? Does he also see angels? I am not sure that this is a gift he has. The realm of the spirits is actually the 10th dimension. It is the only dimension we cannot see or touch normally. There are plenty of occasions in the scripture in which people received visions of things like angels and demons and it seems that it was a choice of God to reveal these things at the time. Angels came often to bring messages to people in the Bible and this did not require a gift. And yes my son has also seen angels. He has seen them in churches and on our farm. We and our friends had seen them outside of our house a few times. We were told by friends that as soon as they came onto our farm in Tennessee they sensed a warm and safe presence and a change in the spiritual climate around them.
We must always keep in mind that it is not a good thing to seek out angels and demons. They must come to us or be revealed to us. If you want to know more about angels and demons you should read a few books about them. Here are a couple to consider. They are both from Christian Perspectives.
Be careful what you choose to read. There are lots of new age books about this subject and their perspective is not Biblical. Also be aware that there are differing views on spiritual warfare. It isn't just about fighting evil spirits, rebuking Satan and all that. Spiritual warfare has more to do with choosing righteousness over unrighteousness and fighting the fight of faith. Our spirit must battle the world system, the curse and the evil in the world because of the presence of sin. Satan and his angels use tools to overcome us and we must be able to fight against the things we see and hear on a daily basis to win the fight of spiritual warfare. For example. The average person now sees 60,000 images every day. What are those images and how many of them are tools of Satan to corrupt our minds? The battle is there, not in casting out demons. Casting out demons is only a part of spiritual warfare.
I really appreciate your input in this string. I am wondering about your interpretation of the scriptures. I am pasting from Matthew Henry's Commentary here and also want to say that I do not agree with the idea that the gifts were only given to the Apostles. There were another 70 that were also disciples and there were the 120 or so in the upper room that were also disciples of Jesus and they all spoke in tongues. Further, in my own experience I have been healed miraculously by the laying on of hands. I have missionary friends who were able to run across the top of a river and others who have cast out demons. I myself have cast out demons, been translated to a different location and spoken things (not in tongues) I did not understand that had very significant meaning to the people to whom I spoke. I have also seen many other signs that were also the experiences of the Apostles so it is hard for me to believe the gifts only applied to them. Here's the quote from Henry:
3. What power they should be endowed with, for the confirmation of the doctrine they were to preach (Mar_16:17); These signs shall follow them that believe. Not that all who believe, shall be able to produce these signs, but some, even as many as were employed in propagating the faith, and bringing others to it; for signs are intended for them that believe not; see 1Co_14:22. It added much to the glory and evidence of the gospel, that the preachers not only wrought miracles themselves, but conferred upon others a power to work miracles, which power followed some of them that believed, wherever they went to preach. They shall do wonders in Christ's name, the same name into which they were baptized, in the virtue of power derived from him, and fetched in by prayer. Some particular signs are mentioned; (1.) They shall cast out devils; this power was more common among Christians than any other, and lasted longer, as appears by the testimonies of Justin Martyr, Origen, Irenaeus, Tertullian Minutius Felix, and others, cited by Grotius on this place. (2.) They shall speak with new tongues, which they had never learned, or been acquainted with; and this was both a miracle (a miracle upon the mind), for the confirming of the truth of the gospel, and a means of spreading the gospel among those nations that had not heard it. It saved the preachers a vast labour in learning the languages; and, no doubt, they who by miracle were made masters of languages, were complete masters of them and of all their native elegancies, which were proper both to instruct and affect, which would very much recommend them and their preaching. (3.) They shall take up serpents. This was fulfilled in Paul, who was not hurt by the viper that fastened on his hand, which was acknowledged a great miracle by the barbarous people, Act_28:5, Act_28:6. They shall be kept unhurt by that generation of vipers among whom they live, and by the malice of the old serpent. (4.) If they be compelled by their persecutors to drink any deadly poisonous thing, it shall not hurt them: of which very thing some instances are found in ecclesiastical history. (5.) They shall not only be preserved from hurt themselves, but they shall be enabled to do good to others; They shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover, as multitudes had done by their master's healing touch. Many of the elders of the church had this power, as appears by Jam_5:14, where, as an instituted sign of this miraculous healing, they are said to anoint the sick with oil in the name of the Lord. With what assurance of success might they go about executing their commission, when they had such credentials as these to produce!
Thunder, thanks again for sharing your information!!
Please know that I am not interested in casting out any demons or anything similar. I've had suspisions about these things that are a lot like what you've described. I've never seen any angels or demons and, honestly, Im not sure I want to! :) There have been many times I've had weird "feelings". Some have said it's discernment, some have said it's nothing at all. But I know if I pray when I feel those things, I don't feel that "feeling" anymore. Thank you God!!
How do you protect you and your loved ones from being possessed or oppressed?
I will read the books you've suggested and I thank you for suggesting them. I have been very warey for the reason you gave; there are so many that are not Biblical and I don't want to invite anything like that into my mind.
If you'd like to share any more of your experiences, I'd be more than happy to listen! :) Please feel free to contact me privately if neccessary.
