As far as my conduct goes,well,this has never been about me,there will be a lot of "nice" people in hell.Christ was not nice when dealing with heretics.You mistake my passion for defending gods truth for being rude or unpleasent.I get angry when I see religions that lie about christ!Heaven can not be earned!Christ was willingly tortured,marred more than any man,became a curse,humilliated,he paid the whole price!Salvation is a free gift.you cant earn it.you can do nothing to keep it!You sin less because you are being conformed to the rightousness of Christ.not because we are trying to earn something thats already paid for.We cant!We are not capable!The pharisees tried.Jesus hated their hipocracy!They kept trying to earn salvation by following rules,keeping laws,yet he was standing right in front of them,but they would not accept him!They would not turn over their wills to him,Just like satan wanted his will done,just like adam.....we must die to ourselves,this is the gospel!We are boght with a price!We are gods property.Our will is not important!
as far as me being a nice person,well,gods still working on me,perhaps I could have gone about this in a "nicer way"my sanctification wont be complete until I get to heaven.I wish it were complete now.But I know god wants it this way,and he is infinitly wiser than me,so I place my trust in him.
I wish you the best and I pray god reveals the truth to you.
You do seem like a "nice" person.Yet every mormon Ive ever met seemed very "nice" to.This is not proof of your position.Mother teresa spent her whole life helping others,on her death bed she was asked if she beleived she was going to heaven.She replied,I feel ive done enough to "earn"my place in heaven.How Ironic.
And mother Teresa might be in heaven. You don't know. If she truly and innocently believed and followed the light she had, I believe she might be. And what makes you think I'm not defending God's truth too? If Catholics could be in error, then so could I...and so, my friend, could you. And flash...the bible is not the problem. Humans are. Besides, Satan is not sitting around waiting for hell. He deceiving the nations. He is the father of paganism, witchcraft, devil worship, and even false christian worship. The point I'm trying to make is...I believe certain "christian" beliefs are wrong, and because I believe they are wrong, I'm trying to get the truth out there. I believe everyone can be saved if they believe. I believe Jesus died for everyone. And I see these other beliefs that cause MANY people to hate God, when they actually are hating Him for wrong reasons. It makes me sad to see God's character misrepresented. And I see many bible verses that not only suggest that those beliefs are wrong, but they directly contradict them. I find it strange that someone has to accuse me of being in a cult to prove their point.
And I'm not trying to "earn" salvation! For the last time! But if you think you're going to heaven no matter what you do then you are not reading the bible. Salvation is free. Being a christian is hard work. If it was "easy" then why do only a few find the narrow gate? Because everyone wants something for nothing, so they choose the broader path. "Look at me! God chose me not you! I don't even have to follow His commands! Look at that pathetic little cult member...trying to show God's love by following His commandments....He's going to hell because he's under the old covenant!" It has NOTHING to do with earning salvation! I'm trying to show other people that God wants them to believe in His sacrifice. I'm trying to be a good christian witness. I want people to see God character in it's true light. To show them that God can change their lives. Salvation has nothing to do with works! Works is how we show our faith. If we just walk around yelling "I'm a christian!" and we still commit adultery then people will say "Haha, look...God can't even change His own people's lives, how could He change mine?". I believe that your beliefs will cause many to burn to hell for no reason. That is what I see as the fruit of your beliefs. I think God is talking to you here:
Saith the Lord: "They have healed the hurt of the daughter of My people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace." "With lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life." Jeremiah 8:11; Ezekiel 13:22
I'm not saying I'm righteous, but this is definitely making me sad...you're just as brainwashed as I am, brother. I gave you many bible verses that say the exact opposite of some of your beliefs. I have no need of twisting them. So you just call me a cult and discredit my beliefs. Real good. You say I twist scriptures, I say you do. I say "lets have a discussion so people that read this can decide for themselves", you say "I will paste the entire internet in here to keep other people from seeing your garbage". You say you're a true christian, I say...well...I have nothing to say. You said it already. I'll be praying for you.
He,He,He,I dont know why exactly,but that one gave me a good laugh!First of all,none of us are sinless,before or after we are saved.I dont think youd disagree with me on that.So now we are just arguing degrees of sinfulness correct?Do you see the futility in that?Well,I might be a sinner,but im not as bad as that guy.......ect. To that I say,god does not grade on a curve.One sin is enough for eternal damnation,so if you beleive that because you sin a little,or even a lot less than me,that youll go to heaven,and I wont,then we are not reading the same bible.Of course I try not to sin,but,of course,I fail,and I know you can say the same,so what are we arguing here,percentages?Degrees?Does the bible say,well That Hitler was pretty bad,but that Ghandi,well,all he did was sit around and chant,ok,we will give him a pass.No,of course not.It says that christ did the WORK for us,the works we do now(after salvation)are out of gratitude,love,obediance,and because our character is being conformed to that of christ,we hate sin too!But none of this saves us or keeps us.Yes I beleive that the SDA is a cult.Ive given you all kinds of proofs and evidence why.If you cant see that,then my only conclusion is,either cant grasp the material,you dont want to beleive that something youve beleived in so strongly is false,or.........Im not gonna say it!
As far as my calvinistic beleifs go,I dont think people with Arminian beleifs are unsaved,just uneducated,or unwilling to see god the way he really is,so I could be arminian,and still be saved,Its the essential christian doctrines that have to be recognized,most protestant denominations agree on these.
What exactly are religious cults? With such a large number of religious organizations and movements in the world today, it's important to understand what we mean when we start labeling certain groups. The dictionary defines cult as "a system of religious worship or ritual"; "devoted attachment to, or extravagant admiration for, a person, principle, etc." According to this definition, any believer in any god is a member of a cult. In the popular media, a cult is typically defined as a religious sect whose members are "controlled" by a manipulative organization or individual. This kind of cult is usually portrayed as deceptive, requiring absolute loyalty from its followers. Members are often removed from their prior lives altogether, including their jobs, homes and families. The Hare Krishnas, Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church, and Moses David Berg's Family of Love are some popular examples of this type of cult.
Religious Cults: The Christian Perspective
Christians define religious cults from a different perspective. Simply, a cult is any religious group that deviates from the fundamental teachings of the historic, Bible-based, Christian faith as confirmed through the ancient ecumenical creeds. Generally, if a religious organization follows Jesus Christ, but denies or distorts essential Christian doctrines such as the Trinity, the resurrection, or salvation by grace alone, that organization is considered a cult. Traditional examples are the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, the Unity School of Christianity, and the Way International. All of these groups add to the simple gospel of Jesus Christ. In addition, some add to the Bible, such as Mormonism's The Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price. Similarly, Christian Science has added Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures. The Jehovah's Witnesses have actually changed the text of the Bible to make it fit their version of doctrine.
Religious cults add their own rules, rituals and ceremonies -- their own works of righteousness to the finished work of Jesus on the cross. These organizations officially state that Jesus' sacrifice is sufficient for salvation, but then they go on to say that their version of "works" must be added to the simplicity of His grace in order to warrant true salvation. These groups will often use James 2:26 ("faith without works is dead") to establish that works are part of salvation. Although it is true that faith without works is dead, it isn't the works that save us. Works are merely the result of a truly changed life through a saving faith in Jesus. A true Christian does good works because he has received the free gift of salvation, not to get salvation.
Religious Cults: Why Does It Matter?
Groups like the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses reject their categorization with other "religious cults", because the emotional reaction to such a label often gets in the way of mainstream conversion. Actually, contrary to their historical foundations of deeming Christendom to be misguided, evil or apostate, most of the aforementioned cults are now claiming to be Christian themselves. They declare the Divine authority of the Bible, but they manipulate the scriptures to suit their own purposes. Although they claim to serve Jesus Christ, and may use Christian terminology, their doctrines are dangerously different. Why is this an issue? Why can't we all just get along? Because these organizations don't lead to the Jesus Christ of the Bible, but to another Jesus and another gospel message altogether. If these religious groups are based on bad history, or bad doctrine, or bad motives, then we must respectfully expose these shortcomings. If these religious cults are presenting false teachings, then multitudes of people are being led astray.
No,I said what I meant,maybe instead of uneducated,i could have said,havent done in depth studies,wich would mean the same thing,but might be a nicer way to say it,most protestant churches in america are arminian.I know a lot of christians are taught arminian theology,and never bother to question it(iI myself was taught arminian theology in a baptist church,and beleived it without ever questioning it(although I wasnt saved at the time)my calvinist beleifs come from many many hours of deep theological study.Since I am intellectually convinced by the scripture,Then the only logical reason I can come up with,would be lack of study,or not wanting to beleive it.If your asking me If I have pride,of course I do,We all do,Gods working on me still.However if your asking me if Im being prideful in this instance,I would have to say,no,just trying to make a point.
The requirement for salvation is that you accept the sacrifice of Jesus. But the part where you and I disagree is that you say as soon as God decides to chose us or whatever, that we're saved forever. I say that willful sin can cause us to lose our "grace sinlessness". We don't have to be baptized again or anything, but we do have to acknowledge our sin and ask forgiveness. Continued willful sin would cause us to grieve away to holy spirit. We just have to be walking with Christ. You can go back to the parable of the vineyard owner hiring the workers. Someone that accepts Christ right before He comes back will be saved and get the same reward as Paul. It's about relationship, not how sinless you are.
Anyway...about your cult theory. I am a adventist. I know you don't understand this because you aren't. But I've read what your "proofs and evidences" are, and while there is some truth to it, it is either twisted at least a little, or a flat out misrepresentation/lie of what I believe. The thing that said we think we're the only ones going to be saved. Complete opposite of what I, my church, and Ellen White believe. The supposed "unfulfilled prophecy" that Jesus will come back before slavery is abolished is just ridiculous. Even the bible says there will be slavery in the last days. "Every bondman, and every freeman called for the rocks to fall on them". I tried going through those 9 points. Some of it is true. We don't believe in hell like you do. I do believe Ellen White is a prophet from God. The bible says in the end times God's people will be keeping the commandments, and have the testimony of Jesus. It says the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. You say she isn't a prophet because she doesn't fit your beliefs. She fits mine perfectly.
You say the works we do are out of love. So do I. But I also say that if we stop doing them, or if we rely on them completely, or if we stop believing Jesus' sacrifice covers our sin, or if we lose our faith, or if we sin willfully without a repentant heart...we will fall from grace, and/or grieve away the holy spirit. The difference is that you don't think you can fall. I think we can. I think we have complete free will. I do think we were completely sinful and would not have chosen God. But I think that through the influence of the holy spirit God convicts us of sin through the law, we see how exceedingly disgusting we are, we see our need for a savior, we accept the blood of Jesus, and we are saved. But after we are saved it's a walk with Christ, walk as He walked. If you don't, then you don't really love or believe God. He will cut your branch from the vine. If you see your guilt again and honestly forsake your unbelief He will graft you back in. We are supposed to be becoming like Christ. Learning His character. I'm of the firm belief that God's royal law is still in effect. It would make no sense to nail the ten commandments to the cross, and then say only one of them doesn't matter anymore. Keeping the sabbath is evil legalism, but not worshiping idols isn't? The law that was nailed to the cross was the law of Moses. Not the Ten commandments. Completely separate. The Sabbaths that we're not supposed to judge are the ceremonial Sabbaths that were festivals pointing to Christ. Not the sabbath that pointed to creation. It makes perfect sense to me. There weren't 2 days to argue over during bible times. It was extremely obvious. One day. And I still say...if God was going to change one of His eternal laws that we will be keeping in heaven....He would have screamed it from a mountain. Because He's contradicting Himself. Not one jot or one tittle will pass away till all is fulfilled? Well. Jesus isn't back yet, so all isn't fulfilled. There are still many prophecies in revelation that have not happened. Whats your excuse? I'm sorry...but some of your "biblical views" make no sense to me. "Well, it's still there, we just don't have to keep it all". Yeah? Then you might want to read revelation again. The remnant church will be keeping the commandments of God. "Well, those just mean the commandments of Jesus". Yeah? Who was in the pillar of fire that guided Israel? Who was in the pillar of fire that descended on mount Sinai? Who did Moses see, if no one has seen God at any time? Maybe Pre-Jesus (The Mediator/The Main Messenger) gave the 10 commandments? Uh oh...that would throw a monkey wrench in there.
Ha....in depth study...yeah, you can judge my efforts from waaay over there, eh? I just love this...
first I'm in a cult, and now I'm not really trying...I really am destined for hell ain't I? Judging my motives, judging my faith, judging my works, judging my intelligence, judging my efforts, judging my beliefs...maybe your screen name should be manisgod. You seem to know everything I'm doing and thinking. I'm getting a little upset with you, dude. I'm spending more time studying and replying to your posts then about anything else...even more then sleep. Why? Because my faith is important to me, and because you're lying about my faith. I don't like that. I'm not going to go away.:boxing: If I haven't convinced you of my conviction yet, it's because you're not listening. Still...Mark will be nice, he respects your conviction. But now I'm an evil unsaved unbelieving lazy blaspheming heretic cultist. The title is getting longer. Being nice sucks.....
And yes cattle...I've been seeing a little pride in Calvinists as well...but who wouldn't feel proud that God picked them. They must be something special...and infallible on top of that.
Hey! Did you guys know that Seventh-day Baptists influenced Adventists to worship on Saturday?! SDB's must have had a heretic prophet too! I think I already posted that but I'm not sure anybody got to see it...
Ive never judged your conviction.I beleive you whole heartedly beleive what you say.I never called you evil,I state the fact that the bible says we are all sinners.Ive pointed to the fallicies in your doctrine,if that angers you,Im sorry,but Im compelled by god to.Its obvious that nothing anyone says is going to convince you of anything you dont already beleive.This is not a putdown,just what appears to be a fact(I too wonder if you read all my posts)What about the stuff about evil existing,and god willing it too,did you follow the logical conclusion,or do you still think human will is important?I even told you I thought you seemed like a nice person.Your never gonna convince me that god has this ambiguous secret sabbith day code that the whole of salvation hinges upon,and only the people that figure it out are allowed to go to heaven.Its just not the way our lord operates,I am not the judge of who is saved so Im not gonna say your hellbound.This is not my call,If it were up to me,Id want you to go to heaven!As I said before,of course I have pride,so do you,so does ole cattle,hopefully,when we recognize it we ask for forgiveness and help in dealing with it.
but What Im doing now,is not because of pride,but because of my convictions.I am a sinner saved by grace,I deserve death and hell,yet because of what christ did for me,I am saved,not by my works.Wether god chose me or I chose him really makes no difference in this discussion,the end result is the same.
Oh,one more thing,continued willful sin wont make you lose your salvation,but it could cause dire concequences in your earthly life,even to the point of death!I dont feel like looking up these verses right now.but ive studied this before,you would probably get a different meaning from them anyway.But,I will say,whenever I ignore god,or start to stray in anyway,something bad happens in my life.And I know why.and Im back on my knees.Hes my father,he wont tolerate it for long.
Dear brothers, I appreciate the time and effort you've taken into further research of this topic, most of all, your love for all these fellow Christians, whom you do not want to be led astray, and whom you desire to know the truth. I believe that is the attitude every Christian should have, however, let us admit one thing, if one of us is to change, it would be because of the work of the Holy Spirit, not some clever arguement. I stay by my beliefs. If I may ask, have you read my 2nd post? Reason being, it answers most of your accusations. Let me post part of it once more, because that is exactly what I believe.
James 1:22, "Therefore be DOERS of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves." Emphasis mine. Then, Romans 3:20, "Therefore by the DEEDS of the law NO flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Again, emphasis is my own. And yet, John 15:10, "If you KEEP My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love."
With all respect, sir, I'd appreciate it if you'd read clearly before posting a comment. Once again, Matthew 5:19,20 "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the Kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the Kingdom of heaven."
I've got a question for you. Who was it that 'revealed' to you that the SDA is Satanic/Cultic/Heretic movement, was it God? Satan? Websites led by the Holy Spirit? A friend of yours? The question is meant to make you think, but if it offends you, I apologise sincerely. I'm not trying to be nice, I read in one of your post that it won't get me to heaven, which I already know, but I appeal to you as though you were my brother, and that means I will love and respect you, despite how offended I am, because that is who I am. If you believe we SDAs are in error, arguing is not going to change us. Why not pray instead? Isn't that what Christians do for their "obstinate" brothers and sisters for God to lead them out of error? Believe me, that is exactly what we are doing for you. Dare I tamper with God's word to mislead His children? Read this, it is from the NEW TESTAMENT! John 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments." Notice how Jesus Christ NEVER mentioned, "just keep 9". Do you beg to differ with your Saviour? Don't take it on with me, take it on with Him. John 14:21 "He who has my commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him." As you can see, it was Christ, not me, who taught to keep His commandments. Think you are arguing with me, yet I only state what He already stated. I cannot conceive the dreaded fiery wrath that awaits someone who does that. The fear of God, and hatred of sin does not allow me to move into that direction. Why stand a risk of being separated from my Creator to cause the blind and weak to fall when I can spend eternity with the One who died for this very sin? Mister, I cannot convince you, and neither can you convince me. What we can do is ask our Father to lead us onto the righteous path, not the path that 'sounds and feels good' to be on. I don't know what is in your heart. How can I judge you? How can you judge me? We have one God-unless you believe I worship Ellen White and Satan- One Judge. Let Him lead us both and everyone else onto the narrow path. Name calling? That's not going to change me. Clever arguements about Ellen White? If that's your enjoyment, I will give you something to read for the month! Even though I doubt it will change you at all-which is all up to you. Last of all, you're going to have to develop a loving attitude, as Christ had one. You're a Christian, right? And I would like to believe you've got love, correct me if I'm wrong. As a loving Christian, I ask you to respect me and my SDA family by not judging us. All those things you said, was that by the guidance of the Holy Spirit? Or was it your human nature?! What I want to know is that is all this about the SDA or the fact that we preach obedience as Christ did? Does your problem lie with White? Wait a minute, would you still consider it Satanic if the church is eradicated and completely dissolved, but we continued to obey Christ? I have said this before, and God continues teaching, faith without works is dead. Only Christ can save us, not our works.
(You see, DHTMark, once some of our brothers and sisters have already made up their minds, we will argue and try to reason until God's Kingdom comes! If they change, that is the Holy Spirit working in them,you know? I remember when Jesus walked this earth, He was called a blasphemer, even He was thought to be a liar and possessed. If that happened to our innocent Saviour, then it will definitely happen to us 'human natured' servants. I see it clearer now, but don't lose faith...)
