The Bible, the justice system and common sense dictates a person cannot testify on their own behalf. Therefore the Bible cannot testify on its own behalf.------------------------------ Since the New Testament did not exist at the time of its own writing, it is impossible for anything in the New Testament to testify about the New Testament. ----------------------------------- The Bible isn't a Book, but a collection of books by different authors. Therefore authors may testify for another book as long as they weren't the author of that book------------------- Where legitimate testimony exists, what is being testified to? For example Psalm 119 may testify about Torah; "the word is perfect" but that does not equate to inerrant, but rather, perfect for the job it is intended for.----------------------------
The bottom line is the Bible is a extremely valuable written record by and about the relationship with God.our physical and spiritual ancestors had. The Bible is a God inspired tool designed to bring us into relationship with the "Living Word" rather than bring us into relationship with a Paper Pope.
Paul had MANY witnesses who testified to his miraculous healing power. And that happens to be at least ONE reeeeaaallllly big proof of his apostleship and authority
You said witnesses in the “millions saw Moses” being called.
Seems Moses doesn’t agree!
According to the story that Moses got from God there was only a burning bush and God who witnessed Moses’ calling. Paul also had God too! And a few bewildered folk that didn’t know what happened
But both Moses and Paul were given power to perform miracles before hordes of folk thus proving they were given authority to speak for and from God.
Seems to me you’ve missed out on the whole story!! Chuckk come now!!
Don’t you remember what Jesus said?? He said the miracles proved that he was from God. Now that’s just one powerful proof of authority!! Wouldn’t you say???!! But that’s not all!!
Chuckk, you say “God gave Moses dictation. Moses had 6 million witnesses”
Come now chuckk, are you actually saying 6 million witness saw God dictate to Moses???
Your ignorance of the Torah is proof you haven’t a clue what you “so confidently affirm”.
**WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW** Galatians 3:25
I John 2:1-5: My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an Advocate with the Father--**JESUS CHRIST**, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. We know that we have come to know Him [**JESUS**] if we keep His commands. Whoever says, "I know Him," but does not do what He {**JESUS**} commands is a liar and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys His Word, love for God is made complete in them. This is how we know we are in Him!!
John 14:23,24: Jesus says, Anyone who loves Me **WILL OBEY MY TEACHING**. My Father will love them, and We will come to them and make Our home with them. Anyone who does not love Me will not obey My teaching!"
Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, "**ALL AUTHORITY** in heaven and on earth has been given to **ME**. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU**. And surely I am with you always!!"
I Corinthians 9:21: I am under **CHRIST'S LAW**!!
Galatians 6:2: Fulfill the **LAW OF CHRIST**!!
Galatians 3:23-25: "Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the {**OT**} law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, *WE* ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE {**OT**} LAW!!"
*WE* ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW!!
Galatians 2:14-16,20,21; 3:2,5,10-13;23-25: Paul said, When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs? We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' know that a man is NOT justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.!"
Galatians 2:20,21: The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"
Galatians 3:10-13: "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them." Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us!
Galatians 3:23-25: "Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, *WE* ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW!!"
Hebrews 7:18,19: The former regulation is SET ASIDE because it was weak and useless; for the law made nothing perfect, and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.!
Hebrews 8:8,9,13: "The time is coming." says the Lord, "when I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah".... By calling this Covenant "NEW", He has made the first one OBSOLETE; and what is OBSOLETE and aging will soon disappear."
Hebrews 8:6: But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which He is Mediator is SUPERIOR TO THE OLD ONE, and it is founded on better promises.
Colossians 2:16,17: Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you **EAT** or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a *SHADOW* of the things that were to come, the reality, however, is found in Christ!!!
**WE ARE NO LONGER UDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW** Galatians 3:25
I John 2:1-5: My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an Advocate with the Father--**JESUS CHRIST**, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. We know that we have come to know Him [**JESUS**] if we keep His commands. Whoever says, "I know Him," but does not do what He {**JESUS**} commands is a liar and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys His Word, love for God is made complete in them. This is how we know we are in Him!!
John 14:23,24: Jesus says, Anyone who loves Me **WILL OBEY MY TEACHING**. My Father will love them, and We will come to them and make Our home with them. Anyone who does not love Me will not obey My teaching!"
Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, "**ALL AUTHORITY** in heaven and on earth has been given to **ME**. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU**. And surely I am with you always!!"
I Corinthians 9:21: I am under **CHRIST'S LAW**!!
Galatians 6:2: Fulfill the **LAW OF CHRIST**!!
Galatians 3:23-25: "Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the {**OT**} law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, *WE* ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE {**OT**} LAW!!"
*WE* ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW!!
Galatians 2:14-16,20,21: Paul said, When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs? We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' know that a man is NOT justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.!"
Galatians 2:20,21: The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"
Galatians 3:10-13: "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them." Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us!
Galatians 3:23-25: "Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, *WE* ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW!!"
Hebrews 7:18,19: The former regulation is SET ASIDE because it was weak and useless; for the law made nothing perfect, and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.!
Hebrews 8:8,9,13: "The time is coming." says the Lord, "when I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah".... By calling this Covenant "NEW", He has made the first one OBSOLETE; and what is OBSOLETE and aging will soon disappear."
Hebrews 8:6: But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which He is Mediator is SUPERIOR TO THE OLD ONE, and it is founded on better promises.
Colossians 2:16,17: Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you **EAT** or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a *SHADOW* of the things that were to come, the reality, however, is found in Christ!!!
The misinformation in your post is so vast, it would take a "Prophetic" to correct it all.
As to Torah your disagreement is not with me, but the Orthodox Rabbis who taught me.
As to Moses; Moses wasn't given the Law at the burning bush in incident. Even a Sunday school teacher should know this much. Moses was given the Law in front of the Nation of Israel. The beginning of a people of God.
As to Jesus, not only does the Moses and the Old Testament testify of the authority of Jesus, it was debated among Rabbis just how much authority Messiah would have in regards to changing the Law. Btw, Torah explicitly teaches miracles do not attest to authority. I was the specificity of the prophesied miracles that attest to Jesus.
As to Paul, what do we have? We have to take Paul's word that he saw a bright light on the road to Damascus, no other testimony but Paul's. There is no Old Testament Prophecy predicting or testifying for Paul. Not even Jesus mentions Paul's coming. Kinda odd for someone who supposedly has the power to change the Law.
Only Moses and Jesus have Scriptural authority to change the Law. Paul has no Scriptural support for his supposed authority.
So where does Paul get his authority? It comes from the doctrines of the Catholic and Protestant Churches. It doesn't come from Scripture, (else you would if quoted it) it comes doctrine about Scripture.
Christianity holds doctrines about the Jewish Scriptures that Jews don't even hold for their own Scriptures.
David, all this time, I assumed you were a critical thinker, I misjudged you. You are just as much entrenched in the doctrines of man as most all mainstream Christianity.
So entrenched, you can't even admit you have no legitimate Scriptural support for the Authority of Paul to add/subtract or right new Law.
Scripture was mostly passed down through oral tradition, as very few "common" folk could even read and write. As far as Moses, as far as I know, most of laws were from God, and we know there were times Moses erred in it. Lex Telionis for one. But then again, if you debate scripture, then you may feel the need to debate that as well.
As far as Paul, it wasn't merely his testimony. The conversion of Paul was told by Luke, who also happened to be a historian, among other things. Additionally, if we follow the account, it wasn't Paul simply saying such and such happen. The scales would've been visible when he arrived, so to deny Paul, we would also have to deny Ananias, and then Luke's testimony of it all.
One thing with scripture that is good to keep in mind. No of us gets it right 100 percent, even though I'm sure many of us would like to. The important thing is that we study and put ourselves out there to learn. I don't necessarily agree with David 100 percent of the time, but I would speak on his behalf that he is someone who does try to understand. We will learn more by being less critical of people, and more critical of piecing together information. Just my two cents.
We have Paul telling Luke what happened and Luke wrote down Paul testifying on his own behalf.
This is real simple; The authority of Moses and Jesus to give Commands directly from God is incontestable. Scripture testifys for them. This cannot be said for Paul.
All you have to do is give me a couple Scripture verses of Moses, or the Old Testament, or Jesus testifying on Paul's behalf, and we're good.
Why don’t we just call you “Sadlup the “Prophetic” Chuckk
You and prophetic would really make a great team. Some of the false doctrine he doesn’t have you can make up for and vise versa
So, double-k chuck, I see you’re still listening to your inner prophetic!! Dude you need to rebuke that thing!!! Cause you’re seeing all kinda stuff just that ain’t there.
But don’t worry, you’re not the only one who sees stuff that ain’t there, your pop Prophetic, sees a lota stuff that ain’t there either.
Ok, speaking of seeing stuff that ain’t there, Please go back to my post and tell me what you don’t see. You’re sooooo much like “prophetic” seeing all this stuff
So I ask you again, Sadlup the Prophetik Chuckk, did I say Moses was given the Law at the burning bush?
Nada
You’re sooooo completely at loss to prove your fallacious case against Paul that you must make stuff up!!
If you prove your contention first, is what I meant to say.
So far, for what it’s worth, you've done only a bad job **attempting** to justify your case against Paul
It’s so bad, no sensible person would use such silly argumentations.
I’m really beginning to wonder if you’re one of prophetic’s planted character puppets he invented to articulate bad sounding arguments designed to make prophetic look good refuting you.
Maybe that explains Prophetic’s posts of scripture evidences are running circles around you
I don't have an issue with Paul. I know what he wrote and why he wrote. In the cultural context of the second Temple period, Paul's writings (exegesis, instructions and admonishments to the early Church) are generally compatible with Scripture.
You have an issue with Paul by taking him out of the cultural context of the second Temple period and imposing a modern systematic theology context on his writings.
This is the issue you flatly refuse to see: In order for systematic theology to work properly, you need Scripture verses supporting a system where Paul has authority superseding Moses and Jesus.
You don't have the Scripture
You refuse to see or acknowledge without Scriptural support your belief is unsubstantiated.
With 2 threads, 12 pages and over a 100 posts of me repeatedly asking for supporting Scriptural proof for your assertion, you supplied none, not even one. Prophetic posts hundreds on non sequitur verses while you engage in repeated ad hominems,
I suppose I must thank you. These threads certainly showcase the identifiers of Cultish Christianity.
