Thread: Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
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Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 29 May, 2011 09:09 AM
This is the surprise that I promised : The forgiveness of your sins are not dependent on your asking for forgiveness --- it is unbiblical.
I looked up 8 forms of the word 'forgive' every single place they occurred in the New Testament after weeding out a few that do not apply to the topic here is what I came up with:
Occurs 1 time --- *Forgiveness based on confession. (1John 1:9)
Occurs 4 times --- *Forgiveness based on the blood of Jesus. (Matt26:28 Eph1:7 Col1:14 Heb9:22)
Occurs 5 times --- *Forgiveness given based on nothing. (Matt9:6 Col2:13 Heb8:10-12 Heb10:16-18 1John2:12)
Occurs 7 times --- *Forgiveness based on Faith. (Matt9:2-6 Mark2:5-10 Luke5:20-24 Acts10:34 Acts13:39 Rom4:7-9 Jam5:15)
Occurs 8 times --- *Forgiveness based on as we Forgive others. (Matt6:12-15 Matt18:21-35 Mark11:25 Luke6:37 Luke11:4 2Cor2:7-10 4:32 Col3:13)
Kind a of Occurs 9 times --- *Forgiveness based on repentance. Note: Of the the first five none reference anyone interacting with Jesus, that leaves only 4 verses in Acts, meaning all but two where written by Luke and the two in Mark, one is about John the Baptist and the other a quote of Isaiah. (Mark1:4 Mark4:12 Luke3:3 Luke17:3-4 Luke24:47 Acts2:38 Acts5:31 Acts8:22 Acts26:18)
Forgiveness based on asking for forgiveness Occurs 0 times in the New Testament.
I submit to you that asking for forgiveness is a lack of Faith or Understanding of the Gospel. Your sins are already forgiven--- All Of Them---Past Present and Future! Therefore the only thing that remains for us is to receive Forgiveness through Faith and in turn Forgive others as Jesus has Forgiven us.
What about confession and repentance? This is really about Faith, about agreeing with God about our sin and turning to Him. Many think to repent means to turn from their sin, I disagree --- that is only half way. To repent is a 180� u turn, meaning turning from sin and to God. Just turning from sin is Not repentance ; it is only a 90� turn from sin.
Forgiveness is only found in believing Jesus already has forgiven you, confession and repentance is not as much about forgiveness as it is about you cooperating with God to remove sin from your life, sin that has Already Been Forgiven!
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 1 Jun, 2011 02:28 PM
@ET:
I believe that you had written the following.
ET says
Confession of our sins before a holy God, brings us to repentance, and when we repent of our sins of that day, we receive forgiveness of those sins we have committed for that day from God.
The Word of GOD says:
Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
ET,According to the Scriptures here could you be despising the riches of His goodness and longsuffering.
ET Says:
Again, Forgiveness is conditional upon our confession and repentance, if there is no confession or repentance before God, there is no forgiveness FROM GOD. Confession of our sins leads to repentance, and opens the door for God to forgive us on a daily bases, yes, sure, Jesus took care of our sins on the cross, so we can find forgiveness each day from God, and we are covered when we confess and repent
POIC says:
ET,you semm to have a very high view of yourself and man in general.
IF,forgiveness of my sins is dependent upon my confessing, repenting,what was the purpose of Messiah going to the cross.
We confess,He cleans us every single moment of every second of each day.
No mention of forgiveness here.Though it is implied
Luk 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
Luk 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
Luk 15:19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
Luk 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
Luk 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
Luk 15:22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
Luk 15:23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
When will we begin believing the Gospel the way that it has been written,
Not as men have been telling us what it says.
Shalom
Mr.Meanie
God also knows our daily needs, but He requires of us to ask of Him, this is why He says to PRAY ALWAYS ASKING, GIVE US THIS DAY OUR DAILY BREAD AND FORGIVE US OUR DEBTS which imeans our SIN DEBTS that we have sinned against God, as we forgive those who have sinned against us... so why does He tells us to ask for forgiveness in our prayers? This means we are to forgive others of their sin debts who have sinned against us, AS meaning we will do this, forgive others who have sinned against us and ask God to forgive us. As David prays, I acknowledge my transgressions and my sin is ever before me, Against YOU, Lord, YOU only have I sinned and done this evil in YOUR sight. When we sin against others, we sin against God, and when we sin against God, we break His commandments and fellowship with Him, as was the case with David. And we are to pray, confess, repent and ask forgiveness from God for our sins against others and those sins we commit agianst God..
This is why many are as they are in their life having problems, having personal problems and sicknesses, because of pride and thinking Jesus has already paid for their sins and forgiven me, and think and feel they have no need to keep asking Him for forgiveness, and they have failed to repent and ask for God to forgive them of sins commited yesterday.
This has not one thing to do with confessing and repenting of our sins upon salvation, this about doing this in humility on a daily bases, covering your sins each day of our life. The blood that Jesus shed on the cross for our sins provides us this opportunity so that WE CAN COME and repnet and ask for forgiveness from God, and as David says, My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise. Psalm 51
Again, Forgiveness is conditional upon our confession and repentance, if there is no confession or repentance before God, there is no forgiveness FROM GOD. Confession of our sins leads to repentance, and opens the door for God to forgive us on a daily bases, yes, sure, Jesus took care of our sins on the cross, so we can find forgiveness each day from God, and we are covered when we confess and repent..
Also know this, that salvation mean deliverance, so repentance leads to deliverance not only for ones salvation but also deliverance from sins and everything else that is displeasing to God.
Yes, Jesus died for our sins, so that we MIGHT HAVE THE FREEDOM or have the PRIVILEGE of coming to God, and before God in REPENTANCE, not so that we might keep going on sinning thinking everything is covered.... thats' self-pride and arrogrance before God... you cannot continue to sin and think that Jesus already paid the price and we have been forgiven, so we will just casually confess and apologizes and keep it moving. NO! NO! The devil is a liar. For the Lord is not slack (slow) in keeping His promise, as some understand slowness. Instead He is patient with us, not wanting anyone to perish, but EVERYONE TO COME TO REPENTANCE. 1 Peter chapter 3.
Jesus teaches us that if someone sins against us and comes to you and REPENTS, not apologizes, BUT REPENTS �there is a BIG DIFFERENCE IN REPENTING AND APOLOGZIING for an offense or wrong... but if one comes and REPENTS and turn away from doing whatever, and then does something else and comes again and REPENTS you are required to forgive. BUT, if there is no REPENTANCE how can there be forgiveness? This same principle applies with God.
PLEASE DO NOT BE DECEIVED, because God is not mocked, if you DO NOT REPENT of your sins and ask God to forgive you of those sins that you have committed that day willingly or unwillingly by commission, submission, omission, or permission you are spiritually out of fellowship with God.�Therefore, to the one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.� James chapter 4.
For If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be PUNISHED who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, �It is mine to avenge; I will repay,� and again, �The Lord will judge His people.� It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews chapter 10. And God will then chastise you for those sins you have not repented of or asked Him to forgive. Hebrews chapter 12.. if everything has been taken of , and there is no need to ask God to forgive or to repent, why does He chasten us for our worng when there is no repentance?
This is VERY SERIOUS, and again, Confession leads us to repentance and repentance brings forth God's forgiveness.
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 2 Jun, 2011 09:43 AM
POIC, I had planned to no longer speak on this , but for the sake of spiritual learning and knowledge and corretions I will address those things you have presented in your post.
ET says: Confession of our sins before a holy God, brings us to repentance, and when we repent of our sins of that day, we receive forgiveness of those sins we have committed for that day from God.
POIC says: The Word of GOD says: Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? ET,According to the Scriptures here could you be despising the riches of His goodness and longsuffering.
Ella: POIC, if you're going to use a passage to argue your point, Please make sure you use the passage in its fullness as it pretains to the content of what is being said. Here you used parts of what Paul was speaking about in chapter 2, to suggest that maybe I am despising the riches of God's goodness and longsuffering. You, not knowing that to despise God's goodness and longsuffering is to do the very thing that as you are doing... take God's goodness and longsuffering for granted, by thinking that a person no longer has a need to repent of sins AFTER salvation, because of what Jesus accomplished on the cross. Such belief and thinking as you have present and assume, is INDEED despising and taking God's goodness and lonsuffering for granted, to even think such.
Maybe you are unaware or don't know, that this is a letter, and was written in letter form therfore, this chapter2, is a continuation of what Paul speaks in chapter 1, and the ending paragraph of in chapter 1. and is more befitting to your belief, that there is no need for repentance after salvation...than what I believe, that we should repent daily before God for our sins of that day.
This should read, starting with the last verses in chapter 1, as God is pronouncing judgement upon the wicked and those who sinned against Him, and Paul is describing these sins of those who DO NOT and DID NOT repent, and is describing those who agree with such sins, and are apart of these sins becasue they see nothing wrong with them nor do they try to correct those who commit such sins. Yet try to righteously judge others for the same sins, when they themselves are in sin.
Romans chapter 1: verses 32 "Who knowing the judgment of God, that those who commit such things are worthy of death, and not only do you do the same things, but you also have pleasure in those who do them. Therefore you are inexcusable O man whoever you are who judges for wherein you judge another, you condemn yourself, for you who judge do the same things (commit the same sins). But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who commit such things. And think about this, O man who judge those who do such things (speaking about the sins in chapter 1), and you do the same, do you think that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you despise the riches of God's goodness and longsuffering not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?"
Ella: So POIC, I hope you understand what you asked of me, when you should have ask this question of yourself since you are the one who belief that after a person has repented unto salvation there iis no need to repent anymore of your sins.
POIC says: ET,you semm to have a very high view of yourself and man in general.
Ella: I don't know if you're meaning this as a positive comment or negative one. Nevertheless, it doesn't matter because The Bible teaches us that whatsoever a person thinks of him/herself so is he/she. So yes, I think highly of my self becasue I know my spiritual position in Christ, and I know His position in me... and I care about people in general, that's my work... that's not a sin is it?... only when we think more highly than we ought, this is when a person starts to think they know all things and when tested they find that they really don't know what they thought they know... or when a person thinks they are better than someone else, and when the rubber meets the road, they find out that thye are not no where near, as we are also taught in scripture,
POIC: IF,forgiveness of my sins is dependent upon my confessing, repenting,what was the purpose of Messiah going to the cross.
Ella: I answered this is my post... Yes, Jesus died for our sins, so that we MIGHT HAVE THE FREEDOM or have the PRIVILEGE of coming to God, and before God in REPENTANCE not so that we might keep going on sinning thinking everything is covered.... if you carefully read what I posted you will find this answer.
POIC: We confess,He cleans us every single moment of every second of each day.
Ella: POIC This is the very point in my post
POIC: No mention of forgiveness here.Though it is implied
Ella: POIC, you have just posted the greatest example for what I posted, confession, repentance and forgiveness all in this one stroy, there is nothing more I could have ask for... Dont know if you intended to present this as such, or if you were adding to the knowledge of the truth, hope this was the case... but God's word always proves true in favor of righteousness and as I always say, there is nothing that can come up against the turh of God's word except he truth its self.. Here we see confession, repentance and forgiveness at work in this story at its very best!
POIC posted:
Luk 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
Ella: The son acknowledges his sin and comes to his senses and realized that he has sinned and is in NEED of repentnace and forgiveness.
Luk 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
Luk 15:19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
Ella: In these two verses, the son does what?... He confesses (admits his sins, and takes responsibility for his actions and behavor of his sin, and speaks out his sin in acknowledgement, and as to what he will say to his father about being unworthy of being forgiven as a son in repentance).
Luk 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
Ella: He then is showing his repentance by doing what?... GETTING UP AND TURNING AROUND from the pig pen (from his sin) returning back to his father's house in humility, and when the father saw him afar, the father rejoiced to see his son coming back home, he had compassion on him and ran to greet him.Because the father knew the son was showing signs of repentance in humility inhis heart to return back home.This is the father's sign of receiving and accepting his son back, because the son came home which was a sign of repentance. God's goodness and longsuffering in action wanting His children to come to repentace of sins and re-establish thier broken relationsuip with him.
Luk 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
Ella: Here again the son repents of his sin to the father, and takes responsibility for his sin, let's the father know that he is not even worhty to be forgiven, not worthy to be called your son. This is ture repentance broke heart and contrite spirit before a loving Father in repentance.
Luk 15:22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
Ella Here we see the father forgiving the son with love and compassion, and has a celebration for him... This is all about how God Himself response to us when we confess our sins and repent, we then receive His forgiveness when we come back home to Him in sincere humility. Our broken relationship with God is re-established. And all of heaven rejoices over us retruning back to God in fellwoship with the Father in celebration...
Luk 15:23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Ella: Hope this helped... may God Himself open all eyes of understanding into His holy Word of Truth unto repentance.
