2 Tim 4:4 (KJV) 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Seventh-day Adventists from their beginning have turned from the "TRUTH"
the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles to the "FABLES" of their prophetess Ellen G. White.
Robert K. Sanders Editor
Established 1997
[Home] [Subjects]
Search
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Is the Seventh-day Adventist Church a Cult?
By Robert K. Sanders
Updated January 2, 2009
Definition of a religious cult and fulfilled by Ellen G. White and the SDA Church.
1. A leader or group of leaders, prophet, prophetess, that claims to speak for God.
Fulfillment: Ellen G. White, the Seventh-day Adventist�s prophetess makes the following claims:
We could stop here with the first quote of EGW as she claims to replace Jesus Christ and is now speaking for God. This in itself shows that Adventism is a cult when comparing it with Hebrews 1:1-2.
EGW: "In ancient times God spoke to men by the mouth of prophets and apostles. In these days He speaks to them by the testimonies of His Spirit. There was never a time when God instructed His people more earnestly than He instructs them now concerning His will and the course that He would have them pursue."-- Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 661.
Bible: Heb 1:1 - 2 (NIV) 1In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
The term "the testimonies of His Spirit", by Ellen G. White is referring to her own prophetic ministry as recorded in her books and letters, and is understood as such by the SDA denomination. God never told his church that Jesus would be replaced by Charles Taze Russell, Mary Baker Eddy, Joseph Smith or Ellen Gould White or any other prophet or prophetess.
Further EGW claims that God is instructing "his people more earnestly" now than did the prophets, apostles and even Jesus Christ through her testimonies. Heresy!!! Of course in EGW's mind "his people" are the SDA sabbath keeping people that believe that she has the "spirit of prophecy".
EGW: "In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision--the precious rays of light shining from the throne." --Testimonies 5 p. 67.
Do you believe that it is Jesus speaking to his church (SDA denomination) or do you accept the heresy of EGW and her testimonies?
2. What they write and teach their followers, contradicts Bible.
Fulfillment: Read, "Ellen G. White Contradicts the Bible Over 50 time" EGW holds strict authority over its members in respect to, finances, wills, diet, dress, amusement, associations, etc. as taught in her books such as Testimonies to the Church.
3. Many members taking issue with the authority of the leader are excommunicated, (disfellowshipped), shunned, or not allowed to hold office in the church, etc.
Fulfillment: EGW: "When the judgment of the General Conference, which is the highest authority that God has on earth, is exercised private independence and private judgment MUST NOT be maintained, but must be surrendered." Testimonies 3 p. 492.
Look at the SDA pastors that were fired for not believing in some of Ellen G. White�s teachings. Also members who have been put out of office and disfellowshipped for not accepting Ellen G. White as a prophet or her teachings.
4. Cult leaders teach infallibility in their teachings or the writings of their cult leader, in this case Ellen G. White.
Fulfillment: "It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy (Mrs. White�s writings) that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is the Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words." G.A. Irwin, General Conference President, from the tract The Mark of the Beast, p. 1.
On February 7, 1887, the General Conference passed the following resolution -- "That we re-affirm our binding confidence in the Testimonies of Sister White to the Church, as the teaching of the Spirit of God." SDA Year Book for 1914, p. 253
"Our position on the Testimonies is like the key-stone to the arch. Take that out and there is no logical stopping-place till all the special truths of the Message are gone...Nothing is surer than this, that the Message and visions (of Mrs. White) belong together, and stand or fall together." Review and Herald Supplement, August 14, 1883.
5. The cult members believes that they are superior to others because of their unique teachings as they have knowledge of God�s will that other Christians do not have. Because of the false teachings of their prophet or leaders, they consider themselves especially chosen by God, and look at themselves as the "Remnant Church," or "The True Church".
Fulfilled: Ellen G. White and the Seventh-day Adventist Church view themselves as "the Remnant Church" alone especially called by God in 1844, over all other churches, which they called Babylon. The Adventist still considers themselves the Remnant Church. Read, "Seventh-day Adventist Believe 27," Chapter 12, The Remnant and Its Mission, p.153.
Seventh-day Adventist Believe: "One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy, This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White." "Seventh-day Adventist Believe 27," p.216.
Without Ellen G. White and her Bible Contradictions, the Seventh-day Adventist Church could not call itself the Remnant Church. In fact the Word of God never calls any denomination a remnant church.
6. Adventist leaders and their members use the writings of Ellen G. White to interpret the Scriptures. EGW's writings are the final arbitrator of doctrines.
Fulfilled: The Adventist�s claim to hold the Bible above all teachings, but in fact they interpret the Bible by the writings of Ellen G. White. This is demonstrated in their Sabbath school Quarterlies, sermons, and articles in their church paper, "Adventist Review." Her counsel is to be followed as Scripture.
7. They publish their own Bible and insert their own doctrines in the text.
Fulfilled: The Seventh-day Adventist Church publishes The Clear Word Bible. It is a cultic Bible that does not separate the Bible text from the author�s personal commentary, opinions, which slants the text to agree with the writings of Ellen G. White and whatever else to make the text say what he wants it to say. This corrupt piece of work, makes the Word of God unclear to the reader.
Adventist scholar Dr. Sakae Kubo say�s, "I am concerned about how our membership regard and use Blanco�s Clear Word. Behind my remarks is a history of Bibles of this sort that have a terrible bias. The Jehovah�s Witnesses� New World Translation is an obvious example�the divinity of Christ is removed and His createdness is brought out along with other tendential characteristics. The very obvious and serious danger is that our own people will be confused as to what the Bible really says. Interpretation has been so mixed in with the text that our people will think that the interpretation is part of the Word of God." Adventist Review, April 1995, p.15.
The Clear Word Bible, 1994 by Jack J. Blanco.
Printed and distributed by Review and Herald Publishing Association,
55 West Oak Ridge Drive, Hagerstown, MD 21740
To see examples of how, The Clear Word Bible perverts the Word of God, go to another site: http://www.ratzlaf.com/pdf%20files/4-17-01%20Deliberate%20Distortions%20in%20SDA.pdf
8. Religious cults look at individuals that leave their group as being lost, and without salvation.
Fulfilled: It is difficult for Seventh-day Adventists to fathom that a person leaving their church that disagree with Adventist doctrines can remain a Christian and still be saved. They often conclude someone must have hurt their feelings in an effort to justify their departure.
After I left the Adventist Church I had letters telling me I was being led by Satan, I was making war on God's church, I would burn in Hell, and that I should come back to the church, etc.
Christians that do not belong to the Seventh-day Adventist Church are often called "outsiders." When a Christian from another Church joins the Seventh-day Adventist Church, they are said, "to have come into the truth." They are often "encouraged" to be rebaptized.
9. What is a cult?
A religious cult is an organization that has departed from mainstream Christianity to follow doctrines that are not Biblical. They hold their leader's Bible contradictions over the Word of God. The Seventh-day Adventist Church teaches many non-Biblical doctrines.
Webster�s Dictionary by Random House: cult n. 1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 2. a. a group that devotes itself to or venerates a person, ideal, fad, etc. 3. a. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist. b. the members of such a religion or sect. -adj. 4. of or pertaining to a cult. 5. of, for, or attracting a small group of devotees: a cult movie. cultic, adj. cultish, adj. cultism, n. cultist, n.
Are there different kinds of cults?
Most definitely. There are religious cults, Satanic cults, secular cults. Some cults are purely secular such as; sport idols, UFO cults, movie stars, and some are dedicated for good of society. A cult in itself is not necessarily evil.
Christians need to be alert as to what is being taught as truth and refuse to accept Biblical Contradictions especially if a church has a prophet. People find comfort and security in belonging to religious cults, as it agrees with their beliefs that they were brain-washed into believing as truth.
EGW is as inspired as the Bible prophets
[Home] [Subjects]
Truth or Fables
Exposing Seventh-day Adventist Fables
2 Tim 4:4 (KJV) 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Seventh-day Adventists from their beginning have turned from the "TRUTH"
the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles to the "FABLES" of their prophetess Ellen G. White.
Robert K. Sanders Editor
Established 1997
[Home] [Subjects]
Search
Editor's Testimony
Contact Us
Links
Books
FAQ
Directory
of Former SDA Pastors & Employees
Readers
Testimony
Write me to receive newsletters or information about the SDAs.
Is the Seventh-day Adventist Church a Cult?
By Robert K. Sanders
Updated January 2, 2009
Definition of a religious cult and fulfilled by Ellen G. White and the SDA Church.
1. A leader or group of leaders, prophet, prophetess, that claims to speak for God.
Fulfillment: Ellen G. White, the Seventh-day Adventist�s prophetess makes the following claims:
We could stop here with the first quote of EGW as she claims to replace Jesus Christ and is now speaking for God. This in itself shows that Adventism is a cult when comparing it with Hebrews 1:1-2.
EGW: "In ancient times God spoke to men by the mouth of prophets and apostles. In these days He speaks to them by the testimonies of His Spirit. There was never a time when God instructed His people more earnestly than He instructs them now concerning His will and the course that He would have them pursue."-- Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 661.
Bible: Heb 1:1 - 2 (NIV) 1In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
The term "the testimonies of His Spirit", by Ellen G. White is referring to her own prophetic ministry as recorded in her books and letters, and is understood as such by the SDA denomination. God never told his church that Jesus would be replaced by Charles Taze Russell, Mary Baker Eddy, Joseph Smith or Ellen Gould White or any other prophet or prophetess.
Further EGW claims that God is instructing "his people more earnestly" now than did the prophets, apostles and even Jesus Christ through her testimonies. Heresy!!! Of course in EGW's mind "his people" are the SDA sabbath keeping people that believe that she has the "spirit of prophecy".
EGW: "In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision--the precious rays of light shining from the throne." --Testimonies 5 p. 67.
Do you believe that it is Jesus speaking to his church (SDA denomination) or do you accept the heresy of EGW and her testimonies?
2. What they write and teach their followers, contradicts Bible.
Fulfillment: Read, "Ellen G. White Contradicts the Bible Over 50 time" EGW holds strict authority over its members in respect to, finances, wills, diet, dress, amusement, associations, etc. as taught in her books such as Testimonies to the Church.
3. Many members taking issue with the authority of the leader are excommunicated, (disfellowshipped), shunned, or not allowed to hold office in the church, etc.
Fulfillment: EGW: "When the judgment of the General Conference, which is the highest authority that God has on earth, is exercised private independence and private judgment MUST NOT be maintained, but must be surrendered." Testimonies 3 p. 492.
Look at the SDA pastors that were fired for not believing in some of Ellen G. White�s teachings. Also members who have been put out of office and disfellowshipped for not accepting Ellen G. White as a prophet or her teachings.
4. Cult leaders teach infallibility in their teachings or the writings of their cult leader, in this case Ellen G. White.
Fulfillment: "It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy (Mrs. White�s writings) that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is the Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words." G.A. Irwin, General Conference President, from the tract The Mark of the Beast, p. 1.
On February 7, 1887, the General Conference passed the following resolution -- "That we re-affirm our binding confidence in the Testimonies of Sister White to the Church, as the teaching of the Spirit of God." SDA Year Book for 1914, p. 253
"Our position on the Testimonies is like the key-stone to the arch. Take that out and there is no logical stopping-place till all the special truths of the Message are gone...Nothing is surer than this, that the Message and visions (of Mrs. White) belong together, and stand or fall together." Review and Herald Supplement, August 14, 1883.
5. The cult members believes that they are superior to others because of their unique teachings as they have knowledge of God�s will that other Christians do not have. Because of the false teachings of their prophet or leaders, they consider themselves especially chosen by God, and look at themselves as the "Remnant Church," or "The True Church".
Fulfilled: Ellen G. White and the Seventh-day Adventist Church view themselves as "the Remnant Church" alone especially called by God in 1844, over all other churches, which they called Babylon. The Adventist still considers themselves the Remnant Church. Read, "Seventh-day Adventist Believe 27," Chapter 12, The Remnant and Its Mission, p.153.
Seventh-day Adventist Believe: "One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy, This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White." "Seventh-day Adventist Believe 27," p.216.
Without Ellen G. White and her Bible Contradictions, the Seventh-day Adventist Church could not call itself the Remnant Church. In fact the Word of God never calls any denomination a remnant church.
6. Adventist leaders and their members use the writings of Ellen G. White to interpret the Scriptures. EGW's writings are the final arbitrator of doctrines.
Fulfilled: The Adventist�s claim to hold the Bible above all teachings, but in fact they interpret the Bible by the writings of Ellen G. White. This is demonstrated in their Sabbath school Quarterlies, sermons, and articles in their church paper, "Adventist Review." Her counsel is to be followed as Scripture.
7. They publish their own Bible and insert their own doctrines in the text.
Fulfilled: The Seventh-day Adventist Church publishes The Clear Word Bible. It is a cultic Bible that does not separate the Bible text from the author�s personal commentary, opinions, which slants the text to agree with the writings of Ellen G. White and whatever else to make the text say what he wants it to say. This corrupt piece of work, makes the Word of God unclear to the reader.
Adventist scholar Dr. Sakae Kubo say�s, "I am concerned about how our membership regard and use Blanco�s Clear Word. Behind my remarks is a history of Bibles of this sort that have a terrible bias. The Jehovah�s Witnesses� New World Translation is an obvious example�the divinity of Christ is removed and His createdness is brought out along with other tendential characteristics. The very obvious and serious danger is that our own people will be confused as to what the Bible really says. Interpretation has been so mixed in with the text that our people will think that the interpretation is part of the Word of God." Adventist Review, April 1995, p.15.
The Clear Word Bible, 1994 by Jack J. Blanco.
Printed and distributed by Review and Herald Publishing Association,
55 West Oak Ridge Drive, Hagerstown, MD 21740
To see examples of how, The Clear Word Bible perverts the Word of God, go to another site: http://www.ratzlaf.com/pdf%20files/4-17-01%20Deliberate%20Distortions%20in%20SDA.pdf
8. Religious cults look at individuals that leave their group as being lost, and without salvation.
Fulfilled: It is difficult for Seventh-day Adventists to fathom that a person leaving their church that disagree with Adventist doctrines can remain a Christian and still be saved. They often conclude someone must have hurt their feelings in an effort to justify their departure.
After I left the Adventist Church I had letters telling me I was being led by Satan, I was making war on God's church, I would burn in Hell, and that I should come back to the church, etc.
Christians that do not belong to the Seventh-day Adventist Church are often called "outsiders." When a Christian from another Church joins the Seventh-day Adventist Church, they are said, "to have come into the truth." They are often "encouraged" to be rebaptized.
9. What is a cult?
A religious cult is an organization that has departed from mainstream Christianity to follow doctrines that are not Biblical. They hold their leader's Bible contradictions over the Word of God. The Seventh-day Adventist Church teaches many non-Biblical doctrines.
Webster�s Dictionary by Random House: cult n. 1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 2. a. a group that devotes itself to or venerates a person, ideal, fad, etc. 3. a. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist. b. the members of such a religion or sect. -adj. 4. of or pertaining to a cult. 5. of, for, or attracting a small group of devotees: a cult movie. cultic, adj. cultish, adj. cultism, n. cultist, n.
Are there different kinds of cults?
Most definitely. There are religious cults, Satanic cults, secular cults. Some cults are purely secular such as; sport idols, UFO cults, movie stars, and some are dedicated for good of society. A cult in itself is not necessarily evil.
Christians need to be alert as to what is being taught as truth and refuse to accept Biblical Contradictions especially if a church has a prophet. People find comfort and security in belonging to religious cults, as it agrees with their beliefs that they were brain-washed into believing as truth.
EGW is as inspired as the Bible prophets
[Home] [Subjects]
Truth or Fables
Exposing Seventh-day Adventist Fables
2 Tim 4:4 (KJV) 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Seventh-day Adventists from their beginning have turned from the "TRUTH"
the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles to the "FABLES" of their prophetess Ellen G. White.
Robert K. Sanders Editor
Established 1997
[Home] [Subjects]
Search
Editor's Testimony
Contact Us
Links
Books
FAQ
Directory
of Former SDA Pastors & Employees
Readers
Testimony
Write me to receive newsletters or information about the SDAs.
Is the Seventh-day Adventist Church a Cult?
By Robert K. Sanders
Updated January 2, 2009
Definition of a religious cult and fulfilled by Ellen G. White and the SDA Church.
1. A leader or group of leaders, prophet, prophetess, that claims to speak for God.
Fulfillment: Ellen G. White, the Seventh-day Adventist�s prophetess makes the following claims:
We could stop here with the first quote of EGW as she claims to replace Jesus Christ and is now speaking for God. This in itself shows that Adventism is a cult when comparing it with Hebrews 1:1-2.
EGW: "In ancient times God spoke to men by the mouth of prophets and apostles. In these days He speaks to them by the testimonies of His Spirit. There was never a time when God instructed His people more earnestly than He instructs them now concerning His will and the course that He would have them pursue."-- Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 661.
Bible: Heb 1:1 - 2 (NIV) 1In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
The term "the testimonies of His Spirit", by Ellen G. White is referring to her own prophetic ministry as recorded in her books and letters, and is understood as such by the SDA denomination. God never told his church that Jesus would be replaced by Charles Taze Russell, Mary Baker Eddy, Joseph Smith or Ellen Gould White or any other prophet or prophetess.
Further EGW claims that God is instructing "his people more earnestly" now than did the prophets, apostles and even Jesus Christ through her testimonies. Heresy!!! Of course in EGW's mind "his people" are the SDA sabbath keeping people that believe that she has the "spirit of prophecy".
EGW: "In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision--the precious rays of light shining from the throne." --Testimonies 5 p. 67.
Do you believe that it is Jesus speaking to his church (SDA denomination) or do you accept the heresy of EGW and her testimonies?
2. What they write and teach their followers, contradicts Bible.
Fulfillment: Read, "Ellen G. White Contradicts the Bible Over 50 time" EGW holds strict authority over its members in respect to, finances, wills, diet, dress, amusement, associations, etc. as taught in her books such as Testimonies to the Church.
3. Many members taking issue with the authority of the leader are excommunicated, (disfellowshipped), shunned, or not allowed to hold office in the church, etc.
Fulfillment: EGW: "When the judgment of the General Conference, which is the highest authority that God has on earth, is exercised private independence and private judgment MUST NOT be maintained, but must be surrendered." Testimonies 3 p. 492.
Look at the SDA pastors that were fired for not believing in some of Ellen G. White�s teachings. Also members who have been put out of office and disfellowshipped for not accepting Ellen G. White as a prophet or her teachings.
4. Cult leaders teach infallibility in their teachings or the writings of their cult leader, in this case Ellen G. White.
Fulfillment: "It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy (Mrs. White�s writings) that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is the Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words." G.A. Irwin, General Conference President, from the tract The Mark of the Beast, p. 1.
On February 7, 1887, the General Conference passed the following resolution -- "That we re-affirm our binding confidence in the Testimonies of Sister White to the Church, as the teaching of the Spirit of God." SDA Year Book for 1914, p. 253
"Our position on the Testimonies is like the key-stone to the arch. Take that out and there is no logical stopping-place till all the special truths of the Message are gone...Nothing is surer than this, that the Message and visions (of Mrs. White) belong together, and stand or fall together." Review and Herald Supplement, August 14, 1883.
5. The cult members believes that they are superior to others because of their unique teachings as they have knowledge of God�s will that other Christians do not have. Because of the false teachings of their prophet or leaders, they consider themselves especially chosen by God, and look at themselves as the "Remnant Church," or "The True Church".
Fulfilled: Ellen G. White and the Seventh-day Adventist Church view themselves as "the Remnant Church" alone especially called by God in 1844, over all other churches, which they called Babylon. The Adventist still considers themselves the Remnant Church. Read, "Seventh-day Adventist Believe 27," Chapter 12, The Remnant and Its Mission, p.153.
Seventh-day Adventist Believe: "One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy, This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White." "Seventh-day Adventist Believe 27," p.216.
Without Ellen G. White and her Bible Contradictions, the Seventh-day Adventist Church could not call itself the Remnant Church. In fact the Word of God never calls any denomination a remnant church.
6. Adventist leaders and their members use the writings of Ellen G. White to interpret the Scriptures. EGW's writings are the final arbitrator of doctrines.
Fulfilled: The Adventist�s claim to hold the Bible above all teachings, but in fact they interpret the Bible by the writings of Ellen G. White. This is demonstrated in their Sabbath school Quarterlies, sermons, and articles in their church paper, "Adventist Review." Her counsel is to be followed as Scripture.
7. They publish their own Bible and insert their own doctrines in the text.
Fulfilled: The Seventh-day Adventist Church publishes The Clear Word Bible. It is a cultic Bible that does not separate the Bible text from the author�s personal commentary, opinions, which slants the text to agree with the writings of Ellen G. White and whatever else to make the text say what he wants it to say. This corrupt piece of work, makes the Word of God unclear to the reader.
Adventist scholar Dr. Sakae Kubo say�s, "I am concerned about how our membership regard and use Blanco�s Clear Word. Behind my remarks is a history of Bibles of this sort that have a terrible bias. The Jehovah�s Witnesses� New World Translation is an obvious example�the divinity of Christ is removed and His createdness is brought out along with other tendential characteristics. The very obvious and serious danger is that our own people will be confused as to what the Bible really says. Interpretation has been so mixed in with the text that our people will think that the interpretation is part of the Word of God." Adventist Review, April 1995, p.15.
The Clear Word Bible, 1994 by Jack J. Blanco.
Printed and distributed by Review and Herald Publishing Association,
55 West Oak Ridge Drive, Hagerstown, MD 21740
To see examples of how, The Clear Word Bible perverts the Word of God, go to another site: http://www.ratzlaf.com/pdf%20files/4-17-01%20Deliberate%20Distortions%20in%20SDA.pdf
8. Religious cults look at individuals that leave their group as being lost, and without salvation.
Fulfilled: It is difficult for Seventh-day Adventists to fathom that a person leaving their church that disagree with Adventist doctrines can remain a Christian and still be saved. They often conclude someone must have hurt their feelings in an effort to justify their departure.
After I left the Adventist Church I had letters telling me I was being led by Satan, I was making war on God's church, I would burn in Hell, and that I should come back to the church, etc.
Christians that do not belong to the Seventh-day Adventist Church are often called "outsiders." When a Christian from another Church joins the Seventh-day Adventist Church, they are said, "to have come into the truth." They are often "encouraged" to be rebaptized.
9. What is a cult?
A religious cult is an organization that has departed from mainstream Christianity to follow doctrines that are not Biblical. They hold their leader's Bible contradictions over the Word of God. The Seventh-day Adventist Church teaches many non-Biblical doctrines.
Webster�s Dictionary by Random House: cult n. 1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 2. a. a group that devotes itself to or venerates a person, ideal, fad, etc. 3. a. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist. b. the members of such a religion or sect. -adj. 4. of or pertaining to a cult. 5. of, for, or attracting a small group of devotees: a cult movie. cultic, adj. cultish, adj. cultism, n. cultist, n.
Are there different kinds of cults?
Most definitely. There are religious cults, Satanic cults, secular cults. Some cults are purely secular such as; sport idols, UFO cults, movie stars, and some are dedicated for good of society. A cult in itself is not necessarily evil.
Christians need to be alert as to what is being taught as truth and refuse to accept Biblical Contradictions especially if a church has a prophet. People find comfort and security in belonging to religious cults, as it agrees with their beliefs that they were brain-washed into believing as truth.
EGW is as inspired as the Bible prophets
[Home] [Subjects]
Truth or Fables
Exposing Seventh-day Adventist Fables
2 Tim 4:4 (KJV) 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Seventh-day Adventists from their beginning have turned from the "TRUTH"
the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles to the "FABLES" of their prophetess Ellen G. White.
Robert K. Sanders Editor
Established 1997
[Home] [Subjects]
Search
Editor's Testimony
Contact Us
Links
Books
FAQ
Directory
of Former SDA Pastors & Employees
Readers
Testimony
Write me to receive newsletters or information about the SDAs.
Is the Seventh-day Adventist Church a Cult?
By Robert K. Sanders
Updated January 2, 2009
Definition of a religious cult and fulfilled by Ellen G. White and the SDA Church.
1. A leader or group of leaders, prophet, prophetess, that claims to speak for God.
Fulfillment: Ellen G. White, the Seventh-day Adventist�s prophetess makes the following claims:
We could stop here with the first quote of EGW as she claims to replace Jesus Christ and is now speaking for God. This in itself shows that Adventism is a cult when comparing it with Hebrews 1:1-2.
EGW: "In ancient times God spoke to men by the mouth of prophets and apostles. In these days He speaks to them by the testimonies of His Spirit. There was never a time when God instructed His people more earnestly than He instructs them now concerning His will and the course that He would have them pursue."-- Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 661.
Bible: Heb 1:1 - 2 (NIV) 1In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
The term "the testimonies of His Spirit", by Ellen G. White is referring to her own prophetic ministry as recorded in her books and letters, and is understood as such by the SDA denomination. God never told his church that Jesus would be replaced by Charles Taze Russell, Mary Baker Eddy, Joseph Smith or Ellen Gould White or any other prophet or prophetess.
Further EGW claims that God is instructing "his people more earnestly" now than did the prophets, apostles and even Jesus Christ through her testimonies. Heresy!!! Of course in EGW's mind "his people" are the SDA sabbath keeping people that believe that she has the "spirit of prophecy".
EGW: "In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision--the precious rays of light shining from the throne." --Testimonies 5 p. 67.
Do you believe that it is Jesus speaking to his church (SDA denomination) or do you accept the heresy of EGW and her testimonies?
2. What they write and teach their followers, contradicts Bible.
Fulfillment: Read, "Ellen G. White Contradicts the Bible Over 50 time" EGW holds strict authority over its members in respect to, finances, wills, diet, dress, amusement, associations, etc. as taught in her books such as Testimonies to the Church.
3. Many members taking issue with the authority of the leader are excommunicated, (disfellowshipped), shunned, or not allowed to hold office in the church, etc.
Fulfillment: EGW: "When the judgment of the General Conference, which is the highest authority that God has on earth, is exercised private independence and private judgment MUST NOT be maintained, but must be surrendered." Testimonies 3 p. 492.
Look at the SDA pastors that were fired for not believing in some of Ellen G. White�s teachings. Also members who have been put out of office and disfellowshipped for not accepting Ellen G. White as a prophet or her teachings.
4. Cult leaders teach infallibility in their teachings or the writings of their cult leader, in this case Ellen G. White.
Fulfillment: "It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy (Mrs. White�s writings) that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is the Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words." G.A. Irwin, General Conference President, from the tract The Mark of the Beast, p. 1.
On February 7, 1887, the General Conference passed the following resolution -- "That we re-affirm our binding confidence in the Testimonies of Sister White to the Church, as the teaching of the Spirit of God." SDA Year Book for 1914, p. 253
"Our position on the Testimonies is like the key-stone to the arch. Take that out and there is no logical stopping-place till all the special truths of the Message are gone...Nothing is surer than this, that the Message and visions (of Mrs. White) belong together, and stand or fall together." Review and Herald Supplement, August 14, 1883.
5. The cult members believes that they are superior to others because of their unique teachings as they have knowledge of God�s will that other Christians do not have. Because of the false teachings of their prophet or leaders, they consider themselves especially chosen by God, and look at themselves as the "Remnant Church," or "The True Church".
Fulfilled: Ellen G. White and the Seventh-day Adventist Church view themselves as "the Remnant Church" alone especially called by God in 1844, over all other churches, which they called Babylon. The Adventist still considers themselves the Remnant Church. Read, "Seventh-day Adventist Believe 27," Chapter 12, The Remnant and Its Mission, p.153.
Seventh-day Adventist Believe: "One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy, This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White." "Seventh-day Adventist Believe 27," p.216.
Without Ellen G. White and her Bible Contradictions, the Seventh-day Adventist Church could not call itself the Remnant Church. In fact the Word of God never calls any denomination a remnant church.
6. Adventist leaders and their members use the writings of Ellen G. White to interpret the Scriptures. EGW's writings are the final arbitrator of doctrines.
Fulfilled: The Adventist�s claim to hold the Bible above all teachings, but in fact they interpret the Bible by the writings of Ellen G. White. This is demonstrated in their Sabbath school Quarterlies, sermons, and articles in their church paper, "Adventist Review." Her counsel is to be followed as Scripture.
7. They publish their own Bible and insert their own doctrines in the text.
Fulfilled: The Seventh-day Adventist Church publishes The Clear Word Bible. It is a cultic Bible that does not separate the Bible text from the author�s personal commentary, opinions, which slants the text to agree with the writings of Ellen G. White and whatever else to make the text say what he wants it to say. This corrupt piece of work, makes the Word of God unclear to the reader.
Adventist scholar Dr. Sakae Kubo say�s, "I am concerned about how our membership regard and use Blanco�s Clear Word. Behind my remarks is a history of Bibles of this sort that have a terrible bias. The Jehovah�s Witnesses� New World Translation is an obvious example�the divinity of Christ is removed and His createdness is brought out along with other tendential characteristics. The very obvious and serious danger is that our own people will be confused as to what the Bible really says. Interpretation has been so mixed in with the text that our people will think that the interpretation is part of the Word of God." Adventist Review, April 1995, p.15.
The Clear Word Bible, 1994 by Jack J. Blanco.
Printed and distributed by Review and Herald Publishing Association,
55 West Oak Ridge Drive, Hagerstown, MD 21740
To see examples of how, The Clear Word Bible perverts the Word of God, go to another site: http://www.ratzlaf.com/pdf%20files/4-17-01%20Deliberate%20Distortions%20in%20SDA.pdf
8. Religious cults look at individuals that leave their group as being lost, and without salvation.
Fulfilled: It is difficult for Seventh-day Adventists to fathom that a person leaving their church that disagree with Adventist doctrines can remain a Christian and still be saved. They often conclude someone must have hurt their feelings in an effort to justify their departure.
After I left the Adventist Church I had letters telling me I was being led by Satan, I was making war on God's church, I would burn in Hell, and that I should come back to the church, etc.
Christians that do not belong to the Seventh-day Adventist Church are often called "outsiders." When a Christian from another Church joins the Seventh-day Adventist Church, they are said, "to have come into the truth." They are often "encouraged" to be rebaptized.
9. What is a cult?
A religious cult is an organization that has departed from mainstream Christianity to follow doctrines that are not Biblical. They hold their leader's Bible contradictions over the Word of God. The Seventh-day Adventist Church teaches many non-Biblical doctrines.
Webster�s Dictionary by Random House: cult n. 1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 2. a. a group that devotes itself to or venerates a person, ideal, fad, etc. 3. a. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist. b. the members of such a religion or sect. -adj. 4. of or pertaining to a cult. 5. of, for, or attracting a small group of devotees: a cult movie. cultic, adj. cultish, adj. cultism, n. cultist, n.
Are there different kinds of cults?
Most definitely. There are religious cults, Satanic cults, secular cults. Some cults are purely secular such as; sport idols, UFO cults, movie stars, and some are dedicated for good of society. A cult in itself is not necessarily evil.
Christians need to be alert as to what is being taught as truth and refuse to accept Biblical Contradictions especially if a church has a prophet. People find comfort and security in belonging to religious cults, as it agrees with their beliefs that they were brain-washed into believing as truth.
EGW is as inspired as the Bible prophets
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Truth or Fables
Exposing Seventh-day Adventist Fables
2 Tim 4:4 (KJV) 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Seventh-day Adventists from their beginning have turned from the "TRUTH"
the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles to the "FABLES" of their prophetess Ellen G. White.
Robert K. Sanders Editor
Established 1997
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Is the Seventh-day Adventist Church a Cult?
By Robert K. Sanders
Updated January 2, 2009
Definition of a religious cult and fulfilled by Ellen G. White and the SDA Church.
1. A leader or group of leaders, prophet, prophetess, that claims to speak for God.
Fulfillment: Ellen G. White, the Seventh-day Adventist�s prophetess makes the following claims:
We could stop here with the first quote of EGW as she claims to replace Jesus Christ and is now speaking for God. This in itself shows that Adventism is a cult when comparing it with Hebrews 1:1-2.
EGW: "In ancient times God spoke to men by the mouth of prophets and apostles. In these days He speaks to them by the testimonies of His Spirit. There was never a time when God instructed His people more earnestly than He instructs them now concerning His will and the course that He would have them pursue."-- Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 661.
Bible: Heb 1:1 - 2 (NIV) 1In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
The term "the testimonies of His Spirit", by Ellen G. White is referring to her own prophetic ministry as recorded in her books and letters, and is understood as such by the SDA denomination. God never told his church that Jesus would be replaced by Charles Taze Russell, Mary Baker Eddy, Joseph Smith or Ellen Gould White or any other prophet or prophetess.
Further EGW claims that God is instructing "his people more earnestly" now than did the prophets, apostles and even Jesus Christ through her testimonies. Heresy!!! Of course in EGW's mind "his people" are the SDA sabbath keeping people that believe that she has the "spirit of prophecy".
EGW: "In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision--the precious rays of light shining from the throne." --Testimonies 5 p. 67.
Do you believe that it is Jesus speaking to his church (SDA denomination) or do you accept the heresy of EGW and her testimonies?
2. What they write and teach their followers, contradicts Bible.
Fulfillment: Read, "Ellen G. White Contradicts the Bible Over 50 time" EGW holds strict authority over its members in respect to, finances, wills, diet, dress, amusement, associations, etc. as taught in her books such as Testimonies to the Church.
3. Many members taking issue with the authority of the leader are excommunicated, (disfellowshipped), shunned, or not allowed to hold office in the church, etc.
Fulfillment: EGW: "When the judgment of the General Conference, which is the highest authority that God has on earth, is exercised private independence and private judgment MUST NOT be maintained, but must be surrendered." Testimonies 3 p. 492.
Look at the SDA pastors that were fired for not believing in some of Ellen G. White�s teachings. Also members who have been put out of office and disfellowshipped for not accepting Ellen G. White as a prophet or her teachings.
4. Cult leaders teach infallibility in their teachings or the writings of their cult leader, in this case Ellen G. White.
Fulfillment: "It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy (Mrs. White�s writings) that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is the Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words." G.A. Irwin, General Conference President, from the tract The Mark of the Beast, p. 1.
On February 7, 1887, the General Conference passed the following resolution -- "That we re-affirm our binding confidence in the Testimonies of Sister White to the Church, as the teaching of the Spirit of God." SDA Year Book for 1914, p. 253
"Our position on the Testimonies is like the key-stone to the arch. Take that out and there is no logical stopping-place till all the special truths of the Message are gone...Nothing is surer than this, that the Message and visions (of Mrs. White) belong together, and stand or fall together." Review and Herald Supplement, August 14, 1883.
5. The cult members believes that they are superior to others because of their unique teachings as they have knowledge of God�s will that other Christians do not have. Because of the false teachings of their prophet or leaders, they consider themselves especially chosen by God, and look at themselves as the "Remnant Church," or "The True Church".
Fulfilled: Ellen G. White and the Seventh-day Adventist Church view themselves as "the Remnant Church" alone especially called by God in 1844, over all other churches, which they called Babylon. The Adventist still considers themselves the Remnant Church. Read, "Seventh-day Adventist Believe 27," Chapter 12, The Remnant and Its Mission, p.153.
Seventh-day Adventist Believe: "One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy, This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White." "Seventh-day Adventist Believe 27," p.216.
Without Ellen G. White and her Bible Contradictions, the Seventh-day Adventist Church could not call itself the Remnant Church. In fact the Word of God never calls any denomination a remnant church.
6. Adventist leaders and their members use the writings of Ellen G. White to interpret the Scriptures. EGW's writings are the final arbitrator of doctrines.
Fulfilled: The Adventist�s claim to hold the Bible above all teachings, but in fact they interpret the Bible by the writings of Ellen G. White. This is demonstrated in their Sabbath school Quarterlies, sermons, and articles in their church paper, "Adventist Review." Her counsel is to be followed as Scripture.
7. They publish their own Bible and insert their own doctrines in the text.
Fulfilled: The Seventh-day Adventist Church publishes The Clear Word Bible. It is a cultic Bible that does not separate the Bible text from the author�s personal commentary, opinions, which slants the text to agree with the writings of Ellen G. White and whatever else to make the text say what he wants it to say. This corrupt piece of work, makes the Word of God unclear to the reader.
Adventist scholar Dr. Sakae Kubo say�s, "I am concerned about how our membership regard and use Blanco�s Clear Word. Behind my remarks is a history of Bibles of this sort that have a terrible bias. The Jehovah�s Witnesses� New World Translation is an obvious example�the divinity of Christ is removed and His createdness is brought out along with other tendential characteristics. The very obvious and serious danger is that our own people will be confused as to what the Bible really says. Interpretation has been so mixed in with the text that our people will think that the interpretation is part of the Word of God." Adventist Review, April 1995, p.15.
The Clear Word Bible, 1994 by Jack J. Blanco.
Printed and distributed by Review and Herald Publishing Association,
55 West Oak Ridge Drive, Hagerstown, MD 21740
To see examples of how, The Clear Word Bible perverts the Word of God, go to another site: http://www.ratzlaf.com/pdf%20files/4-17-01%20Deliberate%20Distortions%20in%20SDA.pdf
8. Religious cults look at individuals that leave their group as being lost, and without salvation.
Fulfilled: It is difficult for Seventh-day Adventists to fathom that a person leaving their church that disagree with Adventist doctrines can remain a Christian and still be saved. They often conclude someone must have hurt their feelings in an effort to justify their departure.
After I left the Adventist Church I had letters telling me I was being led by Satan, I was making war on God's church, I would burn in Hell, and that I should come back to the church, etc.
Christians that do not belong to the Seventh-day Adventist Church are often called "outsiders." When a Christian from another Church joins the Seventh-day Adventist Church, they are said, "to have come into the truth." They are often "encouraged" to be rebaptized.
9. What is a cult?
A religious cult is an organization that has departed from mainstream Christianity to follow doctrines that are not Biblical. They hold their leader's Bible contradictions over the Word of God. The Seventh-day Adventist Church teaches many non-Biblical doctrines.
Webster�s Dictionary by Random House: cult n. 1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 2. a. a group that devotes itself to or venerates a person, ideal, fad, etc. 3. a. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist. b. the members of such a religion or sect. -adj. 4. of or pertaining to a cult. 5. of, for, or attracting a small group of devotees: a cult movie. cultic, adj. cultish, adj. cultism, n. cultist, n.
Are there different kinds of cults?
Most definitely. There are religious cults, Satanic cults, secular cults. Some cults are purely secular such as; sport idols, UFO cults, movie stars, and some are dedicated for good of society. A cult in itself is not necessarily evil.
Christians need to be alert as to what is being taught as truth and refuse to accept Biblical Contradictions especially if a church has a prophet. People find comfort and security in belonging to religious cults, as it agrees with their beliefs that they were brain-washed into believing as truth.
EGW is as inspired as the Bible prophets
[Home] [Subjects]
Definition of a religious cult and fulfilled by Ellen G. White and the SDA Church.
1. A leader or group of leaders, prophet, prophetess, that claims to speak for God.
Fulfillment: Ellen G. White, the Seventh-day Adventist�s prophetess makes the following claims:
We could stop here with the first quote of EGW as she claims to replace Jesus Christ and is now speaking for God. This in itself shows that Adventism is a cult when comparing it with Hebrews 1:1-2.
EGW: "In ancient times God spoke to men by the mouth of prophets and apostles. In these days He speaks to them by the testimonies of His Spirit. There was never a time when God instructed His people more earnestly than He instructs them now concerning His will and the course that He would have them pursue."-- Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 661.
Bible: Heb 1:1 - 2 (NIV) 1In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
The term "the testimonies of His Spirit", by Ellen G. White is referring to her own prophetic ministry as recorded in her books and letters, and is understood as such by the SDA denomination. God never told his church that Jesus would be replaced by Charles Taze Russell, Mary Baker Eddy, Joseph Smith or Ellen Gould White or any other prophet or prophetess.
Further EGW claims that God is instructing "his people more earnestly" now than did the prophets, apostles and even Jesus Christ through her testimonies. Heresy!!! Of course in EGW's mind "his people" are the SDA sabbath keeping people that believe that she has the "spirit of prophecy".
EGW: "In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision--the precious rays of light shining from the throne." --Testimonies 5 p. 67.
Do you believe that it is Jesus speaking to his church (SDA denomination) or do you accept the heresy of EGW and her testimonies?
2. What they write and teach their followers, contradicts Bible.
Fulfillment: Read, "Ellen G. White Contradicts the Bible Over 50 time" EGW holds strict authority over its members in respect to, finances, wills, diet, dress, amusement, associations, etc. as taught in her books such as Testimonies to the Church.
3. Many members taking issue with the authority of the leader are excommunicated, (disfellowshipped), shunned, or not allowed to hold office in the church, etc.
Fulfillment: EGW: "When the judgment of the General Conference, which is the highest authority that God has on earth, is exercised private independence and private judgment MUST NOT be maintained, but must be surrendered." Testimonies 3 p. 492.
Look at the SDA pastors that were fired for not believing in some of Ellen G. White�s teachings. Also members who have been put out of office and disfellowshipped for not accepting Ellen G. White as a prophet or her teachings.
4. Cult leaders teach infallibility in their teachings or the writings of their cult leader, in this case Ellen G. White.
Fulfillment: "It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy (Mrs. White�s writings) that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is the Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words." G.A. Irwin, General Conference President, from the tract The Mark of the Beast, p. 1.
On February 7, 1887, the General Conference passed the following resolution -- "That we re-affirm our binding confidence in the Testimonies of Sister White to the Church, as the teaching of the Spirit of God." SDA Year Book for 1914, p. 253
"Our position on the Testimonies is like the key-stone to the arch. Take that out and there is no logical stopping-place till all the special truths of the Message are gone...Nothing is surer than this, that the Message and visions (of Mrs. White) belong together, and stand or fall together." Review and Herald Supplement, August 14, 1883.
5. The cult members believes that they are superior to others because of their unique teachings as they have knowledge of God�s will that other Christians do not have. Because of the false teachings of their prophet or leaders, they consider themselves especially chosen by God, and look at themselves as the "Remnant Church," or "The True Church".
Fulfilled: Ellen G. White and the Seventh-day Adventist Church view themselves as "the Remnant Church" alone especially called by God in 1844, over all other churches, which they called Babylon. The Adventist still considers themselves the Remnant Church. Read, "Seventh-day Adventist Believe 27," Chapter 12, The Remnant and Its Mission, p.153.
Seventh-day Adventist Believe: "One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy, This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White." "Seventh-day Adventist Believe 27," p.216.
Without Ellen G. White and her Bible Contradictions, the Seventh-day Adventist Church could not call itself the Remnant Church. In fact the Word of God never calls any denomination a remnant church.
6. Adventist leaders and their members use the writings of Ellen G. White to interpret the Scriptures. EGW's writings are the final arbitrator of doctrines.
Fulfilled: The Adventist�s claim to hold the Bible above all teachings, but in fact they interpret the Bible by the writings of Ellen G. White. This is demonstrated in their Sabbath school Quarterlies, sermons, and articles in their church paper, "Adventist Review." Her counsel is to be followed as Scripture.
7. They publish their own Bible and insert their own doctrines in the text.
Fulfilled: The Seventh-day Adventist Church publishes The Clear Word Bible. It is a cultic Bible that does not separate the Bible text from the author�s personal commentary, opinions, which slants the text to agree with the writings of Ellen G. White and whatever else to make the text say what he wants it to say. This corrupt piece of work, makes the Word of God unclear to the reader.
Adventist scholar Dr. Sakae Kubo say�s, "I am concerned about how our membership regard and use Blanco�s Clear Word. Behind my remarks is a history of Bibles of this sort that have a terrible bias. The Jehovah�s Witnesses� New World Translation is an obvious example�the divinity of Christ is removed and His createdness is brought out along with other tendential characteristics. The very obvious and serious danger is that our own people will be confused as to what the Bible really says. Interpretation has been so mixed in with the text that our people will think that the interpretation is part of the Word of God." Adventist Review, April 1995, p.15.
The Clear Word Bible, 1994 by Jack J. Blanco.
Printed and distributed by Review and Herald Publishing Association,
55 West Oak Ridge Drive, Hagerstown, MD 21740
To see examples of how, The Clear Word Bible perverts the Word of God, go to another site: http://www.ratzlaf.com/pdf%20files/4-17-01%20Deliberate%20Distortions%20in%20SDA.pdf
8. Religious cults look at individuals that leave their group as being lost, and without salvation.
Fulfilled: It is difficult for Seventh-day Adventists to fathom that a person leaving their church that disagree with Adventist doctrines can remain a Christian and still be saved. They often conclude someone must have hurt their feelings in an effort to justify their departure.
After I left the Adventist Church I had letters telling me I was being led by Satan, I was making war on God's church, I would burn in Hell, and that I should come back to the church, etc.
Christians that do not belong to the Seventh-day Adventist Church are often called "outsiders." When a Christian from another Church joins the Seventh-day Adventist Church, they are said, "to have come into the truth." They are often "encouraged" to be rebaptized.
9. What is a cult?
A religious cult is an organization that has departed from mainstream Christianity to follow doctrines that are not Biblical. They hold their leader's Bible contradictions over the Word of God. The Seventh-day Adventist Church teaches many non-Biblical doctrines.
Webster�s Dictionary by Random House: cult n. 1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 2. a. a group that devotes itself to or venerates a person, ideal, fad, etc. 3. a. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist. b. the members of such a religion or sect. -adj. 4. of or pertaining to a cult. 5. of, for, or attracting a small group of devotees: a cult movie. cultic, adj. cultish, adj. cultism, n. cultist, n.
Are there different kinds of cults?
Most definitely. There are religious cults, Satanic cults, secular cults. Some cults are purely secular such as; sport idols, UFO cults, movie stars, and some are dedicated for good of society. A cult in itself is not necessarily evil.
Christians need to be alert as to what is being taught as truth and refuse to accept Biblical Contradictions especially if a church has a prophet. People find comfort and security in belonging to religious cults, as it agrees with their beliefs that they were brain-washed into believing as truth.
You think it's a cult because it doesn't agree with your beliefs. You presume your beliefs are the correct ones. That's all I have to say about that. The stuff you're posting about adventists is about as twisted as it comes, and just because you keep copying and pasting stuff about us doesn't make it true...you know that don't you? I know what I believe. I know what adventists believe. I even know what Ellen White believes. I know what the bible says. Whether you want to admit it or not. You cannot reconcile all your beliefs with the whole bible. At least not how I see it.
-------------------------
You suppose that because there is no dialogue about the Sabbath/Sunday controversy that it proves you point? There were not 2 different days to argue over until the catholic church changed it!!! It was clear to the disciples, the gentiles, the Jews. There was only one day to worship God...and the apostles, Jesus, the Jews, and the gentiles all kept it. They never even thought about keeping Sunday, because there was no command to change it.
Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day? 9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
------------------------------
You suppose that Jesus didn't come after the likeness of human flesh, because your original sin belief says it isn't possible. The bible says Jesus took on Abraham's nature, not the nature of angels. What nature do angels have? An unfallen nature? Jesus took on our nature. Your definition of original sin/sinful nature must be wrong. He had the nature of Abraham, not unfallen Adam, not angels...Abraham. What kind of nature did Abraham have? A fallen one, but not in Adams sin. Sin is not passed down.
"Verily he took not on him the nature of angels but the seed of Abraham." Heb. 2:16
"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same." Heb. 2:14
"For we have not an high priest which can not be touched with the feelings of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we, yet without sin." Heb. 4:15.
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
1 Tim. 3:16
"But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons." Gal 4:4
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14
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Original sin/once saved always saved? God will not punish the son for the sins of the father. If you don't believe God, He will cut your branch from the vine. If you forsake your unbelief He will graft it back in.
Ezekiel 18:1 The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying, 2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge? 3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel. 4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. 5 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right, 6 And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman, 7 And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment; 8 He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man, 9 Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD. 10 If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things, 11 And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbour's wife, 12 Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination, 13 Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him. 14 Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like, 15 That hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, hath not defiled his neighbour's wife, 16 Neither hath oppressed any, hath not withholden the pledge, neither hath spoiled by violence, but hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment, 17 That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live. 18 As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, spoiled his brother by violence, and did that which is not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity. 19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live. 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. 21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? 24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. 25 Yet ye say, The way of the LORD is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal? 26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. 27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. 28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the LORD is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal? 30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
Ezekiel 33:7 So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me. 8When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 9Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. 10Therefore, O thou son of man, speak unto the house of Israel; Thus ye speak, saying, If our transgressions and our sins be upon us, and we pine away in them, how should we then live? 11Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 12Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.13When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it. 14Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right; 15If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die. 16None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live. 17Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal. 18When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby. 19But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby. 20Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways.
Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. 24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? 25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
Saith the Lord: "They have healed the hurt of the daughter of My people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace." Jeremiah 8:11
"With lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life." Ezekiel 13:22
There are hundreds more I could use that say we have to be careful or we could lose our salvation.
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Eternal Hell? God's will burn everyone for billions upon multiplied billions of years? The unsaved get eternal life too? What? Death just means separation from God? Can there be life separated from God? I believe the bible says eternal life is the reward for the righteous, not the unsaved. Your belief says that we are immortal no matter what we do. Either way we live forever. There are a lot of verses that contradict that.
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." Eccl. 9:5-6
2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth
righteousness.
14Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
John 5:28, 29 All that are in the grave shall hear his voice, And shall come forth.
Acts 2:34 . For David is not ascended into the heavens.
Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Ezekiel 18:4 . The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
1 Corinthians 15:51-53 . We shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, ... and this mortal must put on immortality.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first.
John 11:11, 14 . Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; ... Lazarus is dead.
Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose.
2 Samuel 7:12 Thou shalt sleep with thy fathers.
1 Thessalonians 4:14 Them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
2 Peter 2:6 . And turning the cities of sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly.
John 12:48 . The word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to ... reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished.
Matthew 13:40-42 So shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather ... them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire.
John 5:28, 29 . The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the dead shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; ... they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Job 21:30, 32 The wicked is reserved to the day of destruction. ... Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb.
Psalms 37:10, 20 . For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be. ... But the wicked shall perish, ... into smoke shall they consume away.
Malachi 4:1, 3 The day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; ... and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up. ... And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet.
Revelation 20:9 . They went up on the breadth of the city, and compassed the camp of the saints about, ...
and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Isaiah 47:14 Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.
Matthew 10:28 Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both body and soul in hell.
Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither
sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev. 20:11, 12 I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it. from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: . . . and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
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Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. You can preach till you turn blue that Jesus only died for the saved...I won't believe you. There are too many verses.
Somebody on here said that if you have one verse that disagrees with your beliefs then it is a false belief. I don't think it works like that. You're supposed to interpret scripture with Ellen Whi...lol, jk. ONLY the weight of scripture interprets scripture. If you find one or two verses that you think agree with your point of view, and there are 20 verses that say the opposite...then you are misinterpreting the 2 verses, because the bible doesn't disagree with itself. And I mean directly contradict. Like "eternal hell"? The bible says everywhere that the dead are in the grave, dead and buried, reserved unto the day of judgment. And then they will be destroyed/burned to ashes. No more place will be found for them anywhere. An eternal punishment of literal death. God will purge sin from His universe. He's not going to leave every sinner that ever lived or even Satan alive in hell. Sin would still exist. God wants to destroy sin, not hear the screams of eternal pain and suffering of the unsaved. Even pain and suffering will be destroyed. No more crying. A lot of your beliefs are built on just a few scriptures. You use those to interpret the whole bible. I'm sorry, but I just think it's kinda funny that you say the catholic church is the anti-Christ, but %80 of your core beliefs are still catholic. I And I'm also sorry if any of this comes off as rude or angry, but you are wearing me down a little...I'm getting tired of trying to be nice to people that say I'm a heretic/unsaved/in a cult...you aren't being very nice me...but do unto others, right? *sigh* Patience is a virtue...but once again...I know my beliefs...and the stuff you keep pasting in here is half-truth at best. "Oh, he said this...he said that". I'm not worried about what other humans have to say. Show me what God says. Not this: "From looking at the above website, you'd never know they were unsaved heretics."
Really? Thanks again. I'm still going to try to be nice.:goofball:
"If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink:
For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the LORD shall reward thee." Proverbs 25:21-22
How much more should we love our brothers and sisters in Christ? Oh, yeah...I'm a brainwashed unsaved heretic. Nevermind.....you guys make me sad... "Heretic!! Heretic!!" That sounds familiar. I'm not going to change unless you can convince me from the bible. But I'm beginning to see that it isn't possible. Too much of it is on my side. You can accuse me of twisting it all you want. But I see the truth in my heart, and if that makes me a heretic then strap me to a stake, because I'm not going anywhere. Only God knows my heart. Not websites, and not you. If you're going to judge me then I would like to know what my sin is...where am I in error? And how does it make me unsaved?
:peace::peace:
P.S. I agree, the clear word bible should be thrown out. There are psycho adventists, just like there are Calvinists that read only Calvin, and Lutherans that read only Luther. Most Catholics are told that the bible is too complicated to read. The psychos do not form the "new consensus" on how adventists believe. I am an Adventist. I don't need Ellen White, and I don't like the clear word bible. I am not the exception. The psychos are.
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The Doctrine of God's Effectual Call
Selected Scriptures
Code: 90-296
The Doctrine of God's Effectual Call
Selected Scriptures
We have a wonderful subject to talk about tonight and I took up a little more time than I ought to have, in one sense, but wanted to share with you what I did, so we're going to try to squeeze it in the time we have. I want you to open your Bible to Romans 8...Romans chapter 8 and let's begin in Romans 8 with some very familiar revelation from God.
Verse 28 which is familiar to all of us is a good starting point. Romans 8:28, "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose, for whom He foreknew He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son that He might be the firstborn among many brethren, and whom He predestined these He also called and whom He called these He also justified and whom He justified, these He also glorified."
In our doctrinal study we have talked about foreknowledge. We've talked about predestination, or the doctrine of election. We've talked a little about justification. And we will talk about glorification. But the one word that I want you to focus on with me tonight is the word "called....called." In verse 28, "Those who are called..." In verse 30, "Whom He predestined these He also called and whom He called, these He also justified."
Now one of the most simple words in the English language is the word call. We all understand that word. We use it in a daily manner. It's one of the more common words in our vocabulary. We call our kids to come to dinner in the hope that they will respond. Or we call our husband to come to dinner and hope he will respond. We call our friends on the phone and hope that they will spurn the answer machine option and pick up the phone. It gets a little more important when a church calls a pastor hoping he will accept the offer to come and shepherd them. And when you are called by your boss, the call becomes equally compelling. I remember as a kid being called to the principal's office. I remember in college receiving what was called a "call slip" to come immediately to the dean's office. Some of you have received a summons from a court, a summons is a call you really shouldn't ignore because if you are summoned to court, you probably ought to show up or you may even get a visit from law officers.
Maybe a little stronger than just a summons is a subpoena. A subpoena is a summons commanding the person designated to appear under a penalty for failure to do so. And so really there are all kinds of calls. There are those sort of minimalist calls that you sort of meekly offer to somebody to get them to the table, or those phone calls you hope somebody might answer, all the way through to the far-more serious call from your boss, or call from a church, or from a principal's office or a summons from a court or a subpoena with a threat for non-response. So there are increasingly more compelling kinds of calls.
But in all those cases you can still choose to ignore them. You can resist any of those calls and go on your way and do what you want. But Scripture reveals a truth about a call, a summons that cannot be ignored and it cannot be resisted. It is the unyielding summons from God. It is a subpoena to appear before Him in His court for the purpose of being declared righteous, being declared just, having all your sins forgiven and being set free from any judgment or any condemnation. This is the call that you read about in Romans 8. It is a call that justifies. It is a call that comes according to the divine purpose. It is a call that comes to those who are predestined, those who are elect, those who are chosen. It is a call that leads through justification to eternal glory. Theologians have called this call an effective call, an efficacious call, a determinative call, a decisive call, a conclusive call, an operative call and an irresistible call. It is the call to salvation. It is he divine summons. It is the divine subpoena, not for judgment and not for punishment, but so that you can be declared righteous, free from condemnation, forgiven. It is the call to salvation.
The question is, can it be denied? Can it be resisted? Is there such a thing as non-compliance? Well verse 30 says, "Whom He predestined, these He called." So this call is limited to those who are the elect. We're not talking here about a general call, just a broad sweeping gospel call, the kind of general call that the Apostle Paul talks about quoting the Old Testament prophet, nor are we talking about the Matthew 22 words, "Many are called but few are chosen." We're not talking about what we could call the general call of the gospel, the general outward invitation of the gospel. We're talking about something that comes only to the predestined and results in justification. And that is why it is called an efficacious call, or an effectual call.
Now I want you to look at the word "called" here, it's part of a group of words that come out of a root kaleo...kaleo. Kaleo means to call into one's presence, or to summon. It is used, for example, in Matthew 2:7 where it says, "Herod called the magi into his court and they came." The word can be used in less serious circumstances, but it is the word that is used in the Scripture to speak of a summons. In fact, it is so descriptive that we as believers actually are "the called." We are the called, the church is the ekklesia, not from kaleo, but from ek-kaleo. Kaleo is to be summoned, ek-kaleo is a stronger word, a stronger summons, to be called out and the church then becomes the noun form of that verb, the called out ones. So if you ask what is a church? It is the assembly of those called, summoned.
Now this becomes very clear throughout the Scripture, not just Romans 8. So I want to do a little Bible study with you, go back to Romans 1 and I think you're going to enjoy this, and it's going to stretch you into a wonderful new category of understanding. Paul...Romans 1:1, "A bondservant of Christ Jesus, called as an Apostle, set apart for the gospel of God." He's a good one to look at for this kind of call because when the call of God came on the life of the Apostle Paul, it was a sovereign divine gracious and irresistible summons. He was slammed in to the dirt on the road to Damascus with nothing to do but respond, he is called as an Apostle. Down in verse 6 he's talking about the obedience of faith in verse 5, obeying the gospel, among whom you also are the called. You are the called ones of Jesus Christ to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called saints, called holy ones. You are the called, the holy ones, the ones called out.
Look at 1 Corinthians chapter 1 verse 1, again "Paul called an Apostle." He doesn't mean that's his title, he means he was called by God, by the will of God to be an Apostle of Jesus Christ. And again, it wasn't something that he could resist. Verse 2, "To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling." So whatever this calling is, it makes you a saint. In Romans 8 it justifies you. Here it sanctifies you. And down in verse 9, "God is faithful through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord." You were called into the fellowship that you enjoy with the Lord Jesus Christ, called by God. Over in verse 23, "We preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block, to Gentiles foolishness, but to those who are...here it is again...the called both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God." Now follow this. If you are among the called, then when Christ crucified is preached, He becomes to you the power of God and the wisdom of God. To the Jews a stumbling block, to the Gentiles it's foolishness, but to the called whether Jew or Gentile, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God.
This is a call that makes the one called a part of the called, the ekklesia. Verse 26, "Consider your calling, consider it, consider your summons, consider your divine subpoena, brethren, there are not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise. God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen." And there you have your calling, brethren, is a calling based upon the fact that God has chosen...God has chosen. Verse 30 sums it up by saying, "But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus." Christ becomes to you the wisdom of God in righteousness, and sanctification and redemption by His doing He chose you, you are the predestined and He called you. Whomever He predestines He calls, whomever He calls He justifies and glorifies. We're talking here then about a calling into the fellowship of the saints, into fellowship with His Son.
Turn to Galatians chapter 1 and see the consistency of this truth. Galatians 1 verse 6, Paul says, "I'm amazed..." the Galatians were wandering off, being led astray by some false teachers, though they were believers. He says, "I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ." And he is saying here that God called you to Himself, summoned you to Himself through the grace of Christ and I'm amazed that you are wandering away from that, chasing after a deceptive, distorted and different gospel. Down in verse 11 he says, "I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man, I neither received it from man, or was I taught it, I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ. You have heard of my former manner of life in Judaism, I used to persecute the church of God beyond measure, tried to destroy it and I was advancing in Judaism." And we talked about that this morning, didn't we? If you want to advance in Judaism, kill Christians. That's how passionate they were about their religion. So he was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries, among my countrymen, being more extremely zealous for my ancestral traditions. And when he who...when he who had set me apart even from my mother's womb and called me through His grace was pleased to reveal His Son in me, when God was pleased God reached down knowing it had all been determined even from His mother's womb and He called him through His grace when it pleased Him, and He revealed His Son in me that I might preach Him among the Gentiles."
Paul understood that he was just grabbed by the neck by God and awakened to the glory of Christ and saved and made an Apostle. Look at Ephesians chapter 4, and again so that you understand that this is such common New Testament language, chapter 4 of Ephesians, verse 1, "I therefore the prisoner of the Lord plead with you, or entreat you, walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called." This cannot be a general call. This cannot be a call that you can take or leave. It is a calling by which you have been called that demands that you live your life a certain way, therefore it is a transforming calling, it is a justifying sanctifying calling so that you are to live with all humility and gentleness and patience and showing forbearance to one another and be diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit and the bond of peace. This is that one body, that one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling...one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. This is a calling to salvation and nothing else. This is a calling into the one body, the one Spirit, the one hope, the one Lord, the one faith, the one baptism, the one God and one Father of us all. It is a calling then that assumes a response of a life that is walked in a worthy manner. Whenever you see the idea of a call to salvation in the New Testament epistles, it is always this efficacious effectual determinative operative call, the saving call.
Turn to Colossians chapter 3 and verse 15. And here it says in this familiar verse, "Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts to which indeed you were called in one body." Here again you were called into the body of Christ, you were called to peace through Christ who now rules in your heart. Turn to 1 Thessalonians chapter 2 and again he says what he says in Ephesians 4, does Paul, "So that you may walk in a manner worthy of the God...listen to this...who calls you into His own Kingdom and glory." This is a call to fellowship. This is a call into a relationship with Jesus Christ. This is a call to holiness. This is a call into the body of Christ, to join with the one Spirit, the one Lord, the one faith, the one God and Father of us all. And this is a call into His Kingdom and glory. And again I say, and theologians who understand the Word of God in its magnificent simplicity have always said, "This is a saving call." This is a divine summons, I like to call it the unyielding summons of God. In 2 Thessalonians 2:14 verse 13, "We should always give thanks to God for you, brethren, beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation." That's the great doctrine of election. God has chosen you from the beginning, before time began in the counsels of eternity, inside the Trinity, God chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth, verse 14, and it was for this He called you. You were called because you were chosen. You were called because you were chosen from the beginning for salvation. You were chosen to be sanctified by the Spirit, you were chosen to put faith in the truth and He called you to that through our gospel in order that you might gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. There you have it again...election led to a calling which led to salvation, justification, sanctification and final glorification.
Again, verse 14, "It was for this He called you through our gospel," for what? "That you might gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ." Putting it all together, whomever it is that the Lord calls, He calls into His Kingdom, whomever it is He calls, He calls to salvation, He calls to faith in the truth, He calls to sanctification by the Spirit and He calls to eternal glory. This again is a saving call.
Second Timothy 1:9, they are made parallel here, end of verse 8, "God...God who has saved us and called us with a holy calling," that's two ways to say the same thing. "God who has saved us and called us with a holy calling." It doesn't say God who called us with a holy calling and because we responded He saved us...it doesn't say that. It says He saved us which is to say He called us with a holy calling, not according to our works but according to our own purpose and grace which is granted us in Christ Jesus before time began. There you go back again, He calls whom He predestines and elects...unmistakable teaching of Scripture.
Second...well 1 Peter chapter...1 Peter second chapter, verse 9, this is a rich, rich verse. Verse 9, "You are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation..." these are just grand designations, "A chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light." Now I think probably when you study your Bible, every time you come across this word "called" in the epistles you're going to see it jump off the page. This is not a wishful act on God's part to call you, it's not like calling the kids for dinner. This is an efficacious effectual determinative operative call. He called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. He didn't call you out of darkness hoping you'd come, He called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. That's where you went when He called you. When He called you, you came into His court and you were declared just. When He called you, you came into His body and you became a part of the body of Christ. When He called you, you came into the fellowship. When He called you, you became holy. When He called you, you were sanctified. When He called you so that you would finally be glorified. Verse 21 says that you were called for this purpose, to follow in the footsteps of Christ. It was a call to live your life following the example of the Savior. Chapter 3 verse 9, "Be harmonious...verse 8...be sympathetic, be brotherly, be kind hearted, be humble in spirit, don't return evil for evil or insult for insult, give a blessing instead for you were called for the very purpose that you might inherit a blessing." This is a call that made you into a person who could be a blessing. This is a call that brought you into a life that you are to walk worthy of. This call has an effect.
Chapter 5 verse 10, 1 Peter 5:10, this is so great. "After you've suffered for a little while the God of all grace who called you to His eternal glory in Christ." What a statement. God has called you to justification. He has called you to sanctification and holiness. He has called you to communion and fellowship with the saints. He's called you to live a godly and virtuous life and walk worthy of your calling and adorn His name. And He has called you to His eternal glory in Christ. And He called you because He chose you and predestined you to this end. Second Peter chapter 1 verse 3, well verse 2, "Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and Jesus our Lord, seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness through the true knowledge of Him...listen...who called us by His own glory and excellence." He called us by His own glory. He called us by His own excellence. And He gave us everything pertaining to life and godliness. Staggering stuff really. The preacher can call people to repentance, the preacher can plead with people to come to salvation in Christ, we can do our best, prophets have and apostles have and preachers still do. That's the general outward plea, very different than the inward call that saves.
Finally Hebrews 3:1, here's the difference. Here's the difference, chapter 3 verse 1, Therefore, holy brethren...I love that, I have to refer to you more often as that, it's true, it's true, it's all true, separated, imputed with righteousness..."Therefore, holy brethren...here it is...partakers of a...what? What is the word? A heavenly calling." We're not talking about the preacher here, we're talking about God. This is a divine calling, a heavenly calling. You are holy because of this divine calling. This is a glorious truth...glorious truth, this calling. This is not obscure is it? This is everywhere and there are more...there are more.
What are we talking about here? We're talking about a calling of God that results in a person's salvation.
And I will say it again, every use of the word "call" with regard to salvation in the New Testament epistles refers not to a general outward call, but to a specific inward efficacious saving act of God. It is in that sense an unyielding summons from God that you will respond to, that is why theologians have called it irresistible grace. I like the word "call" better. And I like the idea of an unyielding summons because that emphasizes God's unyielding saving work, rather than man's resistance. But nonetheless it does fit the little outline in Calvin's theology of the irresistible grace. When God seeks to save and call a sinner out of darkness into His marvelous light, the question is...can the sinner resist? By the way, 1 Corinthians 7:17, I just thought of it, I don't want to leave it out, "Only as the Lord has assigned to each one as God has called each in this manner, let him walk." This is speaking about whether you're single or married or whatever, but again it indicates that God has assigned to each one...it says as the Lord has assigned to each one, another way to say it, as God has called each. So what you have here in the word calling is a comparison with the word assigned. God has predetermined this by His own purpose in eternity past, He has assigned salvation to some and He reaches out to save them through this call. He calls them out of darkness, He calls them out of unbelief, He calls them out of confusion and chaos, He calls them out of sin and unholiness. This is God's sovereign saving call. And He is unyielding in exercising His power to make the elect sinner come into His court, come in and be presented as forgiven and justified and on the way to eternal glory.
Now to say this bothers some people. It doesn't bother me because the Bible says it. It bothers some people. They say, "Well this isn't right. It is not right to say God is going to bring sinners to Himself kicking and screaming. To say this is to say that you can't fight it, you can't resist it, God's going to overpower you against your will and violate your freedom." And there are many who say God will not violate our free will. I hear that all the time. God will not violate our freedom to choose. And they want to say, "Well look, we can...God makes really strong suggestions, that's what He does, and, you know, sometimes He's really convincing. And a lot of times He makes really strong suggestions through good preachers who are really convincing. And we can pray and we can ask God to crank up those strong suggestions. We can ask God to open people's minds and open their hearts and remove their blindness and make them responsive but not force them to come. We can ask God to give them opportunity and a whole lot of information and motivation. But in the end, it's got to be up to them." A notable scholar who is very helpful in many of his writings, Norm Geisler, wrote a book called Chosen But Free and he presents the reality of irresistible grace or this saving calling, this effectual calling as, according to him, making God into a dictator with power that crushes our freedom by dragging us into His Kingdom.
Well all of that is really needless because that's not what Scripture says. No one was ever saved against their will. No one was ever brought into the Kingdom kicking and screaming, protesting. No one was ever saved who was dragged against the grain of having dug their heels in. That is not what Scripture teaches. No one has ever been saved against his will, no one ever will be. Everybody who is saved is saved because they will to believe the gospel. In fact, they will with all their heart and soul to believe the gospel. No one is ever saved without being willing. It is an act of the will to believe. The question is, what made them willing? Or better, who made them willing? Was it them? Was it the preacher? That's what we would have to conclude in that kind of system. Somehow it's them in the end and somehow though they were not willing they became willing, they found...they found somewhere they could get a hold of a boot strap and pull themselves up out of unwillingness into willingness. Or the preacher smashed their resistance and by his preaching he made them willing.
There's a little verse tucked in to Psalm 110, you don't have to look it up, just note it, Psalm 110:3. It says this, "Your people will be willing in the day of Your power." Really good. "Your people will be willing in the day of Your power." No sinner is ever going to be willing until the power of God comes upon that sinner. There's nothing in the sinner to make him willing. There's nothing in the sinner even under the best of the preacher's effort, it is only when the power of God makes him willing that he becomes willing. Am I sure about that? Absolutely! No sinner has the capacity to be willing. Can I prove that to you? Look at Romans chapter 3, just a couple of passages here. Romans chapter 3, I always think I'm going to have plenty of time and I never have enough. Romans chapter 3, verse 10, "There's none righteous, no not one. There's none who understands, there's none who seeks for God." That's pretty complete, isn't it? "All have turned aside, together they've become useless. There is not even one. Their throat is an open grave, with their tongues they keep deceiving, the poison of asps is under their lips whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed blood. Destruction and misery in their paths and the path of peace have they not known and there is no fear of God before their eyes." I would say that's a pretty sad condition. That's a broad way to say the heart of man is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Nobody seeks God, nobody on their own is willing. Ephesians 2:1, here's why, Ephesians 2:1, "And you were dead in your trespasses and sins." Dead people don't respond. "You formerly walked according to this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit working in the sons of disobedience. You lived in the lust of our flesh, indulging in the desires of the flesh and of the mind and were by nature children of wrath just like everybody else." That's you. It's hopeless. First Corinthians 2:14, "The natural man understandeth not the things of God, they're foolishness to him." Second Corinthians 4:3 and 4, "If our gospel is hidden, it's hidden to them that believe not and they believe not because the God of this world has blinded their minds lest the light of the glory of the gospel should shine unto them." We went through this in great detail, this is what we mean by total depravity, the utter inability of the sinner to be willing. No sinner left to himself is able. No sinner left to himself is willing to understand, willing to repent, willing to believe, willing to choose God, Christ and salvation. Corruption is far too profound and too spiritually systemic. We can't choose that. We can't seek it. The sinner only becomes willing in the day of divine power. God must display His power sovereign power in summoning us in giving us the will to believe. He must make us willing. Your people will be willing in the day of Your power.
But it's not that the sinner comes kicking and screaming and protesting and trying to resist because when the summons comes, the sinner is made willing. In fact, it is the passion of his heart. When the gospel comes the sinner is so eager to respond. As lost sinners, people have the freedom of the will. That's right. Their will is...look at them, look at the sinners. They operate freely. And what do they do? They choose to sin. They just kind of pick and choose which ones. The lost sinner has the freedom of the will. In salvation we also have the freedom of the will but instead of choosing sin we choose Christ and the difference is because we have been summoned with a divine call. Jonathan Edwards said, "What we choose is not really determined by the will as if it existed independently. What we choose...said Edwards...is really determined by the mind and what it is that the mind thinks is best...and by the way, the mind is not neutral and the mind is not objective, the mind is corrupt. So what the mind thinks is best is what we choose. We are free to choose what our mind thinks is best and apart from God and apart from Christ, our mind is corrupt and it thinks that sin is best. Edwards says, "When confronted with God, the mind of the sinner never thinks that following or obeying God is a good choice." The sinner's will is never to choose God, nothing is stopping him but his mind doesn't regard submission to God and the gospel as desirable so that unless God changes the way we think, our mind will always tell us to rebel against God and the gospel. Which is precisely what we do. The sinner will resist until the kind of grace comes out of heaven, a heavenly call. I don't like the idea of irresistible grace because irresistible is negative and I'd rather see it as unyielding summons by God than something negative. Secondly, because irresistible grace is redundant. If grace is all of God, then it is irresistible because it says in Romans that God says, "I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious," also in the book of Exodus. It is by definition irresistible. If God decides to be gracious, then it's all of Him, enough said. So I don't like the word irresistible because it's negative and it's redundant. And thirdly, it's over-qualifies or under-defines grace. Grace is much more than irresistible. The Bible doesn't call this irresistible grace, it calls it a heavenly calling, a calling to holiness, a calling to sanctification, a calling to justification, a calling to communion with the saints, a calling into the body of Christ. And that word just under-defines that.
How about just calling it a saving call? You might mess up your little acrostic a little bit, that's okay. This is God's gift to us, Ephesians 2:8 and 9, do you remember that? Ephesians 2:8 and 9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God not of works lest no one should boast.: The whole thing is a gift from God. The whole thing comes as a gift from God to us. I love what it says in Philippians 1:29, "For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake not only to believe in Him but to suffer for His sake." It's been granted to you for the sake of Christ to believe. The call brought you to faith. The call brought you to understand. It brought you to conviction, repentance, faith. Clearly this is a saving call and nothing less than that makes any sense of the Scripture. It's like Acts 13:48 where it says, "As many has been appointed to eternal life believed." How did those that were appointed to eternal life believe? Because God called them out of their ignorance. He called them out of their confusion. He called them out of their darkness. He called them out of their iniquity, called them out of their sin and the call was an efficacious call activated by the power of God that brought them into the light, into the truth, into repentance and into faith. It's like Lydia in Acts 16:14, it says, "The Lord opened her heart." I love that. The Lord opened her heart. That is the efficacious call. The Lord opens the mind and the heart and the one who is unwilling becomes willing. Acts 18:27 says, "Paul helped greatly those who believed through grace." So we could just call it grace. It is the grace that actually saves. It is the grace that actually saves. The sinner can't change his will, can't move his will toward God. Do you remember John 1 verse 12? "As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God even to those who believe in His name who were not born of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man but of God." Nobody would will that unless God first willed it and activated it. It isn't because the sinner comes to his senses. It isn't because the sinner is persuaded by clever preaching or an emotional appeal, those are all deceptive illusions. It isn't because you're so nice or you've made Jesus look so nice. People are saved because God summons them and He summons them under the proclamation or the understanding of the gospel. Forget all the nonsense, the gospel alone is what God uses to awaken the sinner and He makes him willing whereas he has never been willing before.
I am a part of a group of pastors and theologians called "The Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals," and happily a part of it. It is a formidable group of leading theologians around the country and I'm very honored to hang around them. In 1996 the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals put out what is called The Cambridge Declaration. This is what it says, "Unwarranted confidence in human ability is a product of fallen human nature." Good statement. "Unwarranted confidence in human ability is a product of fallen human nature." The only reason we think we can will to be saved is because our thinking is corrupt. It goes on to say, "This false confidence now fills the evangelical world from the self-esteemed gospel to the health and wealth gospel, from those who have transformed the gospel into a product to be sold and sinners into consumers who want to buy, to others who treat Christian faith as being true simply because it works. God's grace in Christ is not merely necessary. God's grace in Christ is not merely necessary, but is the sole efficient cause of salvation. We confess that human beings are born spiritually dead and are incapable even of cooperating with regenerating grace." Further the statement says, "We reaffirm that in salvation we are rescued from God's wrath by His grace alone. It is the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit that brings us to Christ by releasing us from our bondage from sin and raising us from spiritual death to spiritual life and we deny that salvation is in any sense a human work, human methods, techniques or strategies by themselves cannot accomplish this transformation. Faith is not produced by our unregenerated human nature," end quote.
Now I love hymns. Yesterday and today of reading hymns, reading the Psalms in meter yesterday because I was given a Bible from the year 1672, 330-some years old. And in the back of it somebody has taken a hundred and fifty Psalms and put them to meter and rhyme and I'm reading through. I'm determined to write some more hymns in the years ahead, I just...I love great music and one of my favorite writers, Charles Wesley...now you've got to understand the Wesley brothers, they were anti-Calvinists. And you know what? The Calvinism they were against was pretty bad stuff. Calvinism had gotten corrupted in the days of the Wesleys and it was harsh and unbending and many of the people who espoused Calvinism were anything but Christians. But Charles Wesley who wrote so many hymns from an Arminian or anti-Calvinist viewpoint believing in the freedom of the will and the freedom of the sinner to choose, in spite of his theology knew better because listen to what he wrote, you'll recognize it, it's from a hymn that he wrote called "And Can It Be." This is what it says, "Long my imprisoned spirit lay, fast bound in sin and nature's night. Thine eye defused, a quickening ray I woke the dungeon flamed with light. My chains fell off, my heart was free. I rose, went forth to follow Thee." Now only a Calvinist could write that. What? Come on, Charles, fess up. You're a prisoner in darkness and night, but until God shined the light and broke your chains, nothing could change. This is the glory of this great truth. In the end, it all goes to God.
I want to close. Over the years several times we've had Dr. Jim Boice preach here, great, great servant of God, great scholar, preacher, monumental life. And his books are still a blessing to me. I certainly considered him a mentor. In fact, R.C. Sproul told me one day that the death of Jim Boice was God's judgment on America. He has left a huge hole. Boice who loves hymns and wrote hymns wrote in one of his books about John Newton. It was 1779 when John Newton wrote "Amazing Grace," which we all know. But I don't know if you all know the whole story of this man born in 1725 who died in 1807, let me just read you a little of what Boice wrote about him. "Newton was raised in a Christian home in which he was taught verses of the Bible, but his mother died when he was only six-years-old and he was sent to live with a relative who hated the Bible and mocked Christianity. Newton ran away to sea. He was wild in those years and was known for being able to swear for two hours without ever repeating himself. He was forced to enlist in the British Navy but he deserted, was captured and beaten publicly as a punishment. Eventually Newton got into the Merchant Marines and went to Africa. In his memoirs he wrote that when he went to Africa he went for one reason only, quote: 'That I might sin my fill.' Newton fell in with a Portugese slave trader in African in whole home he was cruelly treated. This man often went away on slaving expeditions and when he was gone his power passed to his African wife, the chief woman of his harem. She hated all white men and vented her hatred on poor Newton. He says that for months he was forced to grovel in the dirt eating his food from the ground like a dog. He was beaten mercilessly if he touched it." That is, he had to eat it with his face and not his hands. "In time, thin and emaciated Newton made his way to sea where he was picked up by a British ship making its way up the coast to England. When the captain of the ship learned that the young man knew something about navigation as a result of being in the British Navy, he made him his ship's mate. But even then Newton fell into trouble. One day when the captain was ashore, Newton broke out the ship's supply of rum and got the whole crew drunk. He was so drunk himself that when the captain returned and struck him on the head, Newton fell overboard and would have drowned if one of the sailors hadn't quickly hauled him back on board. Near the end of one voyage as they were approaching Scotland, the ship ran into bad weather and was blown off course. Water poured in, the ship began to sink. The young profligate was sent down into the hole to pump water. The storm lasted for days. Newton was terrified. He was sure the ship would sink and he would drown. But in the hold of the ship as he desperately pumped water, the God of all grace whom he had tried to forget but who had never forgotten him brought to his mind Bible verses he had learned in his home as a child. The way of salvation opened up to him, he was born again in the hold of the ship. He was deeply transformed and much letter when he was again in England, Newton began to study theology, eventually became a preacher first in a little town called Olney and later in London. Of this storm William Cooper," really the very unique British poet, "who became a fast personal friend of Newton and lived with him for several years, wrote this." Cooper wrote about the storm in which God called Newton. This is what he wrote, you'll remember these words. "God moves in a mysterious way, His wonders to perform, He plants His footsteps in the sea and rides upon the storm.
"And so he does, says Boice. Newton was a great preacher of grace for he had learned that where sin increased, grace abounded all the more. He is proof that the grace of God is sufficient to save anybody and that He saves them by grace alone." And now you know when John Newton wrote "Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound," it was when he heard the call of the sound of God's grace that he was awakened. And believers ever since have been singing of Amazing Grace, summoning grace as God calls the sinner to Himself.
Sola (solus, soli) is the Latin word that means "alone." Therefore Sola Scriptura means the Scripture Alone. For hundreds of years the people had been taught that Canon Law, the traditions of "the Church" (of Rome), and the words of the pope and priests, were equal with, and even superior to the Holy Bible. They taught that the common man cannot understand and should not study the Bible for himself. However, the Reformers understood that the Scriptures superseded all traditions of men. Our Lord Jesus said the Pharisees made "the word of God of none effect through your tradition�" (Mark 7:13).
The Church of Rome was emphatic that their traditions and laws were equal to the Scriptures. They ignored Proverbs 30:5-6 "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."
Peter wrote, "For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." 1 Peter 1:24-25
Martin Luther and the other Reformers returned to the Bible truth that the Scripture alone is the final authority, not the Pope, not the "Church." Luther made this clear in his trial before the ecclesiastical court in Worms. He said, "Unless I am convicted by Scripture and plain reason---I do not accept the authority of popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other---my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything, for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. Here I stand, I cannot do otherwise. God help me, Amen."
Before I move on, let me share an observation in our day. Many once solid churches, which would still claim they hold to the Scripture alone authoritative, have separated Scripture from its authoritative function. In practice their church is guided by culture. One preacher put it this way � "Therapeutic techniques, marketing strategies, and the beat of the entertainment world often have far more sway about�how the church functions and what it offers, than does the Word of God." The truth is, biblical authority has been abandoned in practice, and churches are adapting their "faith" to meet the felt needs of the people. We need to get back to the truth of Sola Scriptura. Next�
Solus Christus � Christ Alone
How can a person have access to God? Is it through the priests, departed saints, holy angels or the Virgin Mary as the Church of Rome alleges? ABSOLUTELY NOT!
Christ alone is set forth in Scripture as the only mediator. The Bible says, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" 1 Timothy 2:5 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12
Only through Christ can we have acceptance with God. He is the only way of access into God's presence and the only channel by which blessings are bestowed. �Solus Christus -- By Christ Alone.
Sola Gratia
Generally speaking saving grace is the free, unmerited favor of God. Specifically, grace is the unmerited eternal salvation of God, which comes freely to the believing sinner as a gift through the atonement of Jesus Christ. It is receiving the opposite of what we deserve. It is the free forgiveness of sin and the offer of free imputed righteousness, which was purchased by Jesus Christ. Salvation by grace means salvation is not attained or maintained by human works; rather, it is the free gift from God offered to sinners deserving of nothing but punishment, through faith in Christ's blood. This is the Gospel of the grace of Christ.
Salvation is entirely of grace. This means it is exclusively a divine work, absolutely sovereign and free, in which sinners play no part and make no contribution. Paul promotes this Bible truth in Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."
I must remind you that God is not obliged to save anyone. No one merits or deserves salvation. Grace, and grace alone, is the cause of salvation. If by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. Romans 11:6
By grace, God chooses people to eternal life, redeems them through Jesus Christ, calls them by the Holy Spirit, justifies them by faith, adopts them into His family, and preserves them unto eternal life (Ephesians 2:8; Romans 11:5; Galatians 1:15; Titus 3:7; Ephesians 1:5-6; 2:7; Romans 5:21).
But, the scheme of salvation taught by the Church of Rome is totally contrary to the Bible teaching that salvation is by grace alone. Rome teaches the doctrine of merit, that good works do truly deserve eternal life; and whosoever believes differently is accursed. The Roman Church taught and teaches the idea that a righteous person may accumulate a surplus store of good works, over and above what is required (called, works of supererogation). These extra merits, form a treasury or fund, and can be dispensed by the Pope to less holy Roman Catholics who can then enjoy the benefits earned by others (the doctrine of indulgences)!
But the Reformers declared the truth of the Bible that -- [God] hath saved us...not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace (2 Timothy 1:9). This is Reformation doctrine, Sola Gratia. It is explained quite well by Augustus Toplady. He said --
"The way to Heaven lies not over a toll-bridge, but over a free-bridge; even the unmerited grace of God in Christ Jesus. Grace finds us beggars but leaves us debtors." The next pillar of Reformation truth is�
Sola Fide �Faith
"How can a person be right with God?" The Bible and the Roman Church give us conflicting answers! The Bible says, A man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law (Romans 3:28).
Let�s begin by defining the term justification. Justification means, "to declare righteous." Justification is God's declaration that those who trust Jesus Christ are perfectly righteous before Him. It is a legal concept, as when a judge gives a verdict. God is the great Judge. It is His law we have broken. Before I am saved, God declares that I am a condemned sinner. After I come to Christ, God declares that I am righteous because of what Christ did for me on Calvary. Justification is being brought into a new spiritual position before God (Romans 5:1-2).
The doctrine of �justification by faith alone� is the central truth of Christianity and the real test of a church's fidelity to the Gospel. When God justifies sinners, He declares them to be exempt from punishment and entitled to reward solely on the ground of what Christ has done for them (Romans 3:24; 5:9). Faith is simply the sinner's personal reliance on Christ as Savior (Ephesians 1:13).
God justifies us when, in our desperation, we flee to Christ and place our entire confidence in His substitutionary life and death. Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified (Galatians 2:16).
Dr. Isaac Watts, the great hymn writer and preacher put it this way -
No more, my God, I boast no more
Of all the duties I have done:
I quit the hopes I held before,
To trust the merits of Thy Son.
The best obedience of my hands
Dares not appear before Thy throne;
But faith can answer Thy demands,
By pleading what my Lord hath done.
The Roman Catholic Church denies the doctrine of justification by faith. According to Roman dogma, "The instrumental cause [of justification] is the sacrament of baptism," and, "through the observance of the commandments of God and of the Church, faith co-operating with good works..." enables people to be - "further justifled!" (From: The Decrees of the Council of Trent.)
The Reformers raised their voices in united protest against such perversion of biblical Truth. Luther's declared:
"I, Martin Luther, an unworthy preacher of the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, thus profess and thus believe; that this article, that faith alone, without works, can justify before God, shall never be overthrown ... This is the true Gospel... This is the doctrine I shall teach; and this the Holy Spirit and the Church of the faithful has delivered. In this will I abide. Amen."
�Soli Deo Gloria� - Glory To God Alone
As Jonah of old declared, "Salvation is of the LORD." Jonah 2:9 The Apostle Paul wrote "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began," 2 Timothy 1:9
God alone is responsible for our Salvation and therefore we should lift high the voice of adoring praise and thanksgiving, so that all the glory is given to God through our Lord Jesus Christ. The entire plan of salvation as the Apostle Paul teaches is, "To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. Hence the doxology: Unto him be gloiy in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end." Ephesians 3.21.
The Reformers rejected the Romanist doctrine that exalts the Pope, the priests and, by its doctrine of salvation by works, believers themselves. They rightly saw it as a man-centred religion, very far removed from the religion of the New Testament. The Truth rediscovered in the Reformation brought the glory back to God.
William Tyndale, the English Reformer, Bible translator and martyr, wrote in his Prologue to the Epistle to the Romans:
"We see that God only, Who, according to the Scripture, worketh all in all things, worketh a man's justifying, salvation, and health... God's mercy in promising, and Truth in fulfilling His promises, saveth us, and not we ourselves; and therefore is all laud, praise, and glory to be given unto God for His mercy and Truth, and not unto us for our merits and deservings."
"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." Matthew 24:35
DHTM This sermon by john mcaurther,sums up what I know intellectually,logically,and in my heart of hearts to be the gospel,I also completley beleive that you belong to a cult!You cant make god into something hes not.Read this sermon in its entirity and you will know what I truly beleive,Im done arguing with you.I do care about you,but I beleive you so want to be right that youll twist anything anyone says to prove your point.This arguement is redundant!I will not however,stand by and let you post heresy unchecked,as long as I have breath in me,I am compelled by my Lord to defend his truth.Also remember,I am 43,Ive packed a whole lot of hardcore living into those years,so I undoubtedly have a whole lot of life expereince to draw upon,beleive me,when I first heard the message,of what I now beleive,I said the same thing,Its not fair,How could god create people to suffer...........ECT. But if you read the bible from beginning to end(not pull verses here and there)this is EXACTLY the picture of god you will get!!!!!!!!It is undeniable and unrefutable to anyone who is being intellectually honest!!!Not just trying to get someone to join their club!God is 100 percent soveriegn,Its not about us at all,We are a love gift from the father to the son.Peirod,Its all biblical!!!!!!
I told you that I was going to speak on the problem of evil. Why did God allow evil in the world? You could frame the question a number of ways. If the Creator God is so good, why is there so much evil in the world? In fact, the reality of evil in the world is one of the favorite justifications of those who reject the God of the Bible. They're eager to ask those questions in a myriad of different ways...how can God be holy and allow His creation to be dominated by unholiness? How can God be perfectly righteous and ordain the presence of unrighteousness? There are a number of ways that this particular idea is effectively communicated. One is a syllogism, a series of logical steps such as the biblical God is loving...the biblical God is all-knowing, the biblical God is all powerful, yet massive evil exists in the world therefore the biblical God does not exist. That is to say that whoever allows this evil cannot be loving, or cannot be holy, or cannot be all powerful or all knowing and still allow evil.
In the minds of many, this backs Christians up into an impossible corner. There are many who see this as putting us, I guess you could say, at fourth and forty on our own ten-yard line. And our only option is to punt. And there are many Christians who would agree with that and they would grab Deuteronomy 29:29, "The secret things belong to the Lord," and punt that into the opposition's territory as far as they can. Is that the best we can do when pressed against our own theological end zone, is to punt Deuteronomy 29:29? Isn't there anything better than that in the divine play book? Isn't there some kind of long pass we can complete, something that will not only allow us to escape from defeat, but guarantee victory?
I believe there is. I believe that Scripture gives us an answer and without hesitation we can know that answer, we can understand that answer, and we can find eminent satisfaction in that answer. It is not enough to simply say the secret things belong to the Lord, which is to say we don't know, God doesn't tell us. God did not tell Adam and Eve why He let that snake in the Garden. And He didn't tell them why He gave that snake the ability to talk. Nor did God tell Job why He unleashed calamity, disease, disaster and death and Satan into his life. And when Job tried to get an answer out of God, He never did tell him why. So isn't that the best approach, to just say we really don't know, Scripture doesn't tell us? That would be the best answer if Scripture didn't tell us. If that was honestly the case and we said that we have no scriptural answer, that's fine. But we do have a scriptural answer, that's fine. But we do have a scriptural answer.
And this opens up to our thinking a whole category of theological truth that goes under the name of theodicy...theodicy...t-h-e-o-d-i-c-y, theodicy. It comes from two Greek words, theos meaning God, and which is the root of the words that mean righteousness or righteous, or just, or justice. A theodicy is an explanation of how God can be just, or how God can be righteous. It is a defense of God's righteousness in the face of the presence of pervasive sin. And so I want to give you what I believe is a biblical theodicy, a biblical defense of why God who is holy, who is loving, who is all-knowing, who is all-powerful has allowed evil to dominate His creation?
So I'm going to put together my own little series of logical points. Number one, evil exists...evil exists. This is without serious argument. It is incontrovertible unless you are a Christian science advocate. It was Mary Baker Eddy Patterson Glover Frye...she had a problem with men...who basically developed what is called Christian Science. The teaching of Christian Science is this, "All evil is an illusion. All sickness is an illusion. And even death is an illusion." Christian Science is actually like Grape Nuts. If you've ever had Grape Nuts, I don't know why they named them that, they're not grapes and they're not nuts. And Christian Science is neither Christian nor scientific. But it sounds impressive.
The answer is not to play some ridiculous metaphysical game to say something doesn't exist that clearly does exist. Evil exists. It exists apparently, manifestly, massively, dominantly in our world. And there are a number of categories in which evil exists. Let me give you a few.
There is natural evil. That is impersonal, external, physical, temporal evil in the form of diseases, disasters, catastrophes, the kinds of things that come from the physical world, the cursed creation from tiny bacteria to tidal waves, from viruses to volcanoes. The whole natural world is blighted by bad things, things that make you sick, things that injure you, things that kill you. And humans since the Fall have lived at the mercy of the physical corruption. All you have to do is go back to the book of Genesis and not long after the Fall comes the Flood which basically is a massive natural disaster ordained and authored and executed by God Himself which drowns the entire human race with the exception of eight people. There is natural evil beyond the Flood even to this very day, rarely does a day go by when we don't hear of someone somewhere or some group somewhere or some massive amount of people somewhere dying in some kind of natural disaster, or some plague, or some illness sweeping through the lives of people. Natural evil.
Secondly, there's moral evil. Moral evil is personal as opposed to natural evil which is impersonal. It is internal, it is spiritual. It is wickedness, sin, transgression, iniquity, whatever term you want to use for it. It is a bent, it is a disposition. It is an attitude, it is a course of thinking, speaking and conduct which dominates the human race so that Scripture says, "No one is good, not even one." Scripture says, "All the thoughts of the human heart are only evil continually." Scripture says that it is out of the heart that lust conceives and produces sin and from that sin comes death. The Bible tells us that society is dominated by corruption. And it is not a disaster that kills us. A disaster may kill us, but if we miss all the disasters and all the diseases, we will still die because the waves of sin is death. The corruption comes to every human being. It impacts every life, every relationship. All of humanity is made up of sinners, no one is exempt. And all the immoral sinners collide with each other in malfunctioning families and friendships and rivalries and associations and nations. The collision of wicked, selfish, immoral hearts fills the world with one disaster after another.
Then thirdly there is supernatural evil...supernatural evil. This is the evil that is basically perpetrated by demons, fallen angels, the associates of Satan, the number of the angels that fell from heaven with Satan as indicated in Revelation 12 to be a third of the angels, leaving two thirds remaining as holy angels, one third are fallen. Satan is one of those and the whole world, 1 John 5:20 says, lies in the lap of the evil one. These vile beings are as old as creation. They are unmitigatedly wicked. There is nothing in them that is good at all. There are ten thousand times ten thousand and thousands of thousands of them. They ply their wickedness on an angelic level and also on a human level. It will get worse in the future when God casts them all into the earth in the future time of Tribulation. Satan who leads them is for this time given temporary authority over the world system. He has a temporary and delegated sovereignty in this world so that even as believers we are not wrestling against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers and the rulers of the darkness and authorities in high places that are wicked. There is a massive, spiritual struggle going on in this world system effected by demons. They have the power to seduce and deceive humanity against God and against the gospel and against Scripture and to draw them deeper and deeper and deeper into immorality and iniquity.
And then there is another category of evil, eternal evil....eternal evil. In a word, hell...hell. People who go to hell, the majority of the human race, will be forever evil...forever evil. The worm will not die. The fire will not be quenched. The remorse will not end. The judgment will not cease. The punishment will not be mitigated. Recently one of the popular pastors in America who has led a great church growth movement said, "Hell, as far as he's concerned, is like missing the last three pointer at the buzzer to lose the game. And so you spend forever feeling bad about missing that shot." That is not a biblical view of hell. It is punishment. It is unrestrained and unmitigated evil and a fully informed accusing conscience.
Yes there is evil. And there is not marginal evil and there is not minimal evil, there is pervasive, dominant evil. And I guess you could say that evil has a kind of secondary dominance in the whole of creation. It effects everything. It effects the natural creation, the supernatural creation and the human and personal creation.
So we start with the obvious. We admit it. We don't deny it. Anybody who denies it is an absolute fool. Evil is massive, evil is out of control, evil is ingrained, it is systemic, it is everywhere all the time manifest in every one.
Now let's move to the next factor in our reasoning. First, evil exists. Second, God exists. God exists. And only one God exists and He is the God revealed in Scripture, the one, true and only living God, the God of the Bible. And He is exactly the God that Scripture says He is, since the Bible is His self revelation. He is as the Revelation of Scripture describes Him. He is all-powerful, He is all-knowing, He is loving, and He is absolutely holy. Yes He is holy. Yes He is loving. Yes He is omnipotent, that is all-powerful and omniscient, all-knowing. He controls absolutely everything. The Bible tells us that God exists and that nothing exists that He does not ordain. Nothing occurs that He does not ordain. Everything is designed by, ordained by, and controlled by God. That is the biblical testimony.
Let me remind you of it. First Chronicles 29:11 and 12. "Thine, O Lord, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty. For all that is in the heaven and in the earth is Thine. Thine is the Kingdom, O Lord. Thou art exalted as head above all. Thou reignest over all and in Thine hand is power and might and in Thine hand is to make great to give strength unto all." Psalm 115:3, "Our God is in the heavens, He has done whatever He pleased." Daniel 4:35, "He does according to His will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth and none can stay His hand or say unto Him, 'What are you doing?'" Scripture repeatedly affirms the sovereignly affirms the sovereignty of God over everything. God's sovereignty is absolute, irresistible and infinite.
When we say that God is sovereign, we simply mean He has a right to be in charge of absolutely everything because He, in fact, is in charge of absolutely everything. That is why 1 Timothy 6:15 says, "He is the only potentate, or ruler. He is the only sovereign, the only monarch." In Revelation 4:11 we read, "You are worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power, for You have created all things and for Your pleasure they are and were created." "All things" is the operative phrase. Everything fits into God's pleasure. Everything is to please God. Proverbs 16:4, "The Lord has made all things for Himself, even the wicked for the day of evil." Even the wicked for the day of evil.
Listen to Deuteronomy 32:39. "See now that I, I am He...says God...and there is no God beside Me, it is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded. It is I who heal and there is no one who can deliver from My hand." Or Exodus 4:11, "The Lord said to Moses, 'Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I the Lord?'" Or Psalm 105:16, "He called for a famine upon the land." Or 2 Kings 17:25, "They did not fear the Lord, therefore the Lord sent lions which killed some of them." Scripture is very clear that God is behind what we would classify as good things and what we would classify as evil things, or bad things. God created out of His own free choice, uninfluenced, God created everything that is, ordained everything that is. And in 2 Samuel 10:12 it says, "The Lord does what seems to Him good." The Lord does what seems to Him good.
Listen to Psalm 33:9 to 11. "He spoke and it was done. He commanded and it stood fast. The Lord brings the counsel of the heathen to naught, He makes the devices of the people of no effect. The counsel of the Lord stands forever, the thoughts of His heart to all generations." Or Psalm 103:19, "The Lord has prepared His throne in the heavens. His Kingdom rules over all." Or Isaiah 14:27, "The Lord of host has purposed and who shall disannul it? His hand is stretched out, who shall turn it back?" Or Isaiah 46:9 and 10, "Remember the former things of old, for I am God, there is none else, I am God. There is none like Me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times to things that are not yet done, saying My counsel shall stand, I will do all My pleasure." First Samuel 2:6 to 8, "The Lord kills and makes alive. He brings down to the grave, and brings up. He makes poor and makes rich. He brings low and lifts up." Or Amos 3:6, "If there is a calamity in the city, will not the Lord have done it?"
God controls absolutely everything. There is no evil outside His plan. There is no evil outside His purpose. He knows everything that can be known, that is knowable. He has comprehensive power to do everything that can be done that is possible. That is what the Bible says about God. And in that perfect knowledge, and in that perfect power, and with perfect holiness, and expressing His perfect love, God ordains everything.
That leads us to a third conclusion. Evil exists, God exists, and this is the only God who exists, thirdly, God wills evil to exist. God wills evil to exist. It is inescapable.
Turn in your Bible for a moment to Isaiah 45, and we're going to have to move rapidly tonight to work our way through this. But in Isaiah 45 it is important to draw your attention to...well let's start in verse 5, Isaiah 45:5. "I am the Lord, there is no other. Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you though you have not known Me that men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun that there is no one besides Me. I am the Lord, there is no other." That's fairly well established in those two verses. "I am the One forming light and creating darkness, causing well-being and creating calamity. I am the Lord who does all these." Go down to verse 9. "Woe to the one who quarrels with His maker. An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth? Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?' Or the things you are making say, 'He has no hands.' Woe to him who says to a father, 'What are you begetting?' Or to a woman, 'To what are you giving birth?' No pot can tell the potter what to do. No born child can tell his parents to give birth or not give birth. Nor can you question what God does." And God clearly has ordained evil.
Now at this point panic strikes the heart of Arminians...not Armenians, but Arminians. Big difference. Panic strikes the heart of Arminians. They become short of breath here. They start to have heart palpitations, sweaty palms, their eyes roll back, they launch into rapid heart rate. What? God has ordained evil? They don't deny God's power, they would affirm it. They don't deny His knowledge, they would affirm it. They don't even deny that God should be glorified in saving sinners. But the panic attack hits them because they cannot let God be held responsible for evil. If you want to drive Arminian theology, or the opposite of Reformed theology, or the opposite of Calvinism, that kind of theology that denies that God is sovereign and that regeneration is fully a work of God, that kind of theology that says man is sovereign, he's responsible for his own life, he makes his own choices and he becomes a sinner on his own, and he believes on his own and he exercises faith on his own, and he is saved by pulling himself up by his own bootstrap, that is to accommodate the idea that is behind that whole system, and that is we can't make God responsible for evil.
I really think that Arminian theology, for the most part, is a device to get God off the hook. And how do they do it? Well the bottom line is, God is not responsible for evil, you are. That really doesn't help because why did God create creatures who would be responsible for evil knowing what they would do? Just backs the responsibility back to Him. The popular way nowadays that people in that category who don't want God to be responsible for evil in the world is to say that either He didn't have the knowledge that evil was coming, or He doesn't have the power to deal with it. One of the two. Either He in His creation made everything perfect and didn't know about evil's future existence, and so it caught Him off guard. Or He knew but He didn't have the power to stop it. Or He purposely limited His power to stop it for some higher value. Now those are the kinds of things you have to deal with in this argument. Either God didn't know, didn't have the power, chose not to use the power because He had something even more important than evil, something of higher value in view. These kinds of criticisms are supposed to get God off the hook. But what they do is reinvent God. You reinvent a God who is not all-knowing. You reinvent a God who is not all-powerful. That's the only way out and that's why that kind of theology exists.
But let's follow along with let's call the group one...the fact that God hasn't got the knowledge, that He doesn't have the information when He creates so He doesn't know really what's going to happen. This would fit into the system called process theology. Process theology is a group that have reinvented God as a deity in progress. He is not the God today that He was yesterday because He knows more today because more has happened today. And He's finding it out as it happens. This is also what Openness Theism believes, that God is in process, He is not now what He used to be, He's better now, the process has really helped Him, but He is not what He will be a week from now because there will be more things that He'll discovered as history unfolds. And with the unfolding of history came the unfolding of evil, and so God is off the hook because God just didn't know. God couldn't know because He couldn't know what hasn't happened, that is the Openness approach. God can't be responsible for evil. Evil exists and therefore God couldn't have known that it was coming until it showed up. In fact, they'll go so far as to say He hoped the best for Adam. Humm...so much for positive thinking even on God's part. He's not omniscient so when evil showed up, He had to come up with Plan B which was the cross.
Well you get the picture. These are people who lack a true and biblical view of God. They also lack a God-focused, God-exalting, God-dominated view of the universe. They look at things from a man-centered perch and they need to be certain that God doesn't violate any of their rules. It can't be true that God has both a full knowledge of evil and the full power to prevent it and still let it come into existence because that means He ordained it. If He had the full knowledge of it and the full power to deal with it and it exists, then He ordained it. That's more than an Arminian can swallow. Either He didn't have the knowledge, or He didn't have the power, so you have to reinvent God.
There are people actually who aren't even that sophisticated, they're just short answer folks. We hinted at them earlier. You say, "Where did evil come from?" And they'll say, "Oh it came from Adam and Eve." Really? How did it get introduced to Adam and Eve? "Well, oh yeah, that's right, it came from the snake." Well how did the...how did the snake get to a place where he could be embodied by Satan and how did Satan get to be Satan in which he was tempting people to do evil? "Oh well, he came from...oh, he came from heaven, didn't he?"
So where did evil originate? Evil originated where? In heaven? Yes, evil originated in heaven in an angelic rebellion right under the nose of God. You think that was a shock? Then you don't have a God who is absolutely omniscient. You think God couldn't stop it once it got going? Couldn't put an end to it right on the spot? Then you have a God who is not all powerful. No matter how you deal with it, if you sustain the biblical doctrine of God, God becomes ultimately responsible for the existence of evil.
You remember Rabbi Kushner(?) in the book When Bad Things Happen to Good People? A lot of things wrong with that book. The thing that's wrong with the title is there are no good people. But let's grant him his title, When Bad Things Happen To Good People. What he does is reinvent God. He reinvents God. God doesn't have the knowledge and God doesn't have the power. So let's not hold Him responsible for what He doesn't know and can't deal with.
One writer, Ledonitz(?), looked at this problem and said, "God created the best of all worlds that He could make, He couldn't do any better." Really. Zoroastrianism, Manichaeism other sort of ancient philosophies said, "God had to deal with two co-eternal and independent realities good and evil...co-eternal, independent, that is always existing.
Well none of these answers is adequate. All these answers come from people who lack a fixed God-centered view of reality and they have to abandon a biblical view of God. But many of the people who offer these kind of answers declare their faith in the Bible and the God of the Bible, but they expect the God of the Bible to be dragged into a human court, a court of human reason to be judged by a moral law lower than himself. Wow. Somehow God is a higher being, but we have a higher law. We're going to acknowledge that God is the eternal God, but we're going to hold Him accountable to our understanding of justice.
Now when you boil all this down, there are a number of categories in which theodicies can be created. Let me just give them to you. This is a little seminary class, folks, hang on. The first category is metaphysical...metaphysical. That is to say evil is inevitable. It is a corollary of good. It is necessary. It's Yin Yang. It's a necessary opposite of one thing that exists by the very metaphysics of its existence, the opposite can exist as well. It is not that God created evil. It is not that God ordained evil. It is that evil is because good is. It is simply a negation. It is simply a privation. It is the absence of the opposite of. If you have an infinity, you have a finitude. If you have a good, you have an evil.
There's some truth in that to some limited degree metaphysically. There is also the more theological approach to that metaphysical idea and it is this, that because God created humanity good, the potential for evil existed within that creation and man exercising his will chose the evil. So it didn't really come from God, it came from man. It didn't really come from God, it came from Lucifer who made the same choice in heaven. That was strongly the argument of Augustine and Aquinas in ancient times. And there is truth in that. There is the holiness of God and there is the sinfulness of the creature. But it leaves too much to metaphysical inevitability and it asks the question...if because good exists and evil then must exist, is that perpetually true? And when we get to heaven and the new heaven and the new earth because that is eternal and perfect good, will we always be staring down the barrel of potential evil again because it's a metaphysical necessity?
There's a second kind of theodicy. Let's drop the metaphysical approach to theodicy and let's introduce the autonomous theodicy, or theodicies. A number of people come into this category to develop their theodicies. This is the category that suggests the cause of evil is the abuse of free will. And again we're back to our Arminian friends. This is the abuse of free will. And this basically says the highest good to God is free will. Free will trumps everything on God's scale, even evil. God could have prevented evil, but He wanted free will to exist and when He allowed free will to exist, therefore evil exists because those free and autonomous creatures choose evil. And because free will was more important as a reality than eliminating evil, evil exists. Evil exists because God exalts free will. Free will trumps evil on God's value scale so that God had to allow for the possibility of evil in order to preserve the more highly prized autonomy that protects Him from injustice. Again, the bottom line is you can't make God responsible for anything, so the greatest good in the creation is free will...angels have a free will, at least initially, humans have a free will, they make choices, that's the greater good, that's the higher value to God even if it means sin and evil exist. Humans must have the self determined freedom to act. If God acts as a primary cause for people's choices, they would not be free. If God decided they would be coerced and compelled and that would violate their will and we should have a completely free will. That's the highest good. This gets God off the hook again, at least it appears to on a shallow level. But again, it requires reinventing a God...listen to this...who values your will over His own. This is inventing a God who values everybody's over His own and that's not the God I just read about in the Scripture.
And anyway, if God knew people would choose sin and hell, why did He go ahead and create them anyway? And why did He design free will? He could decide what the noblest of all virtues was, why make it free will if it's going to end up like this and you're going to have to go to Plan B just to recover from the exercise of these myriad free wills?
So you can see that an autonomous theodicy as a category has to deny the direct involvement of God as He is revealed to be in the Old Testament. Does He not know what people are going to do? Or is giving them the freedom to do it more important than the presence of evil? If God has both knowledge and power, then He had to give men the free will to start with and He knew exactly what they would do with it and He went ahead and gave it to them and therefore in the end He had to ordain evil. It doesn't solve any problem except to diminish the glory of God.
To design a God with limited knowledge, to design a God with limited power, to design a God who is more concerned about the will of every single human being than His own will is to design a God that is not the biblical God. If God is not in total control of evil, if He has not ordained it, listen, and if He does not have it under complete control at every millisecond of history, then this universe is out of control at the most crucial point. If God is not in control of this completely, then how and when will He get the knowledge and the power to get it under control? And I would ask you this. Would you rather have a God trying to get control of evil, or a God completely in control of it? Take your choice. But the God of the Bible is complete control of evil for His own purposes. It is really heresy to say that the world is full of evil apart from a predetermined plan and purpose by God that is far above the willy-nilly choices of people.
So what do we know up to now? Evil exists. God exists. God wills evil to exist. He did not create it. He could not create it. But He did not prevent it. He ordained it. He willed it. Here it comes, listen carefully...because He had a purpose for it....He had a purpose for it...a purpose. This is critical. He had a purpose for evil.
What is that purpose that God had for evil? Before I answer that question and that's the fourth in our little outline, let me read the Westminster Confession from the seventeen hundreds, some great theologians and biblical scholars put this together, listen carefully. "God from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass. Yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second-hand causes taken away, sinfulness proceeds not only from the creature...proceeds only from the creature and not from God who being most holy and righteous neither can be the author and approver of sin. But then...says the Westminster Confession...all that God decrees and all that God providentially brings to pass is all to the praise of His glory."
And they got it right. The reason for God ordaining evil is for the praise of His glory. Let me ask you a simple question to help you answer the question...the bigger question. Is God more glorious because of sin existing or less glorious? Pretty easy question to answer, isn't it? That really is the ultimate question. Throughout all the eons of eternity will God receive more glory from His creatures because sin existed, or less? And, friends, that's really all that matters is the eternal glory of God.
So it's fourth down and we're on the ten-yard line and I'm pulling out the winning play and we're going for six for the victory. Turn to Romans 3 and I want you to track with me a little bit. Can't take time to develop all of this, but I'm going to give you a good start. Wish I could build context, we don't have time. But let's look at chapter 3 verse 5. Opening statement, "But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say?"
Grab that phrase. Our right...unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God. And Paul uses the first of a series of verbs, this one happens to be sunistemi translated "demonstrates" in the New American Standard. It is a verb that means to disclose, to reveal, to put on display, to show. Our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God. Another way to say that would be, "Would you really understand the righteousness of God if you didn't understand unrighteousness?" Isn't there something to be gained by the contrast? Paul has been showing that God is faithful to His promises to Israel and their sin and unbelief cannot alter God's covenant, cannot alter God's faithfulness. God is righteous. God will do what He said for Israel and even Israel's unrighteousness cannot cancel God's righteousness, but rather gives Him opportunity to demonstrate that righteousness. Even Israel's departure from the truth does no damage to God's truth or God's glory, Paul shows. So in a particular case with regard to Israel, their unrighteousness only made God's righteousness all the more glorious. And in general, unrighteousness only makes righteousness the more wondrous. And so God by allowing unrighteousness is demonstrating righteousness.
Turn to chapter 5 verse 8. Here comes that word "demonstrates" again. "But God demonstrates His own love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Would we understand righteousness without unrighteousness? Would we understand love without sin? Would we understand the love of God in Christ to us if we did not understand how sinful and undeserving and wretched we are? Would we understand the significance of the sufferings of Jesus Christ on the cross for us? Not at all. The cross is the greatest display of the love of God, it is a massive display of the love of God against the backdrop of sin. Our being sinners, our being enemies allows God to put His love on open display.
So, Paul says God demonstrates His righteousness in a context of unrighteousness. God demonstrates His love in a context of hate among enemies. Turn to chapter 9...chapter 9. Here again translators of the NAS have helped us again by using the word "demonstrate," this time the verb is endeiknumi, it's a synonym for sunistemi, it means the same thing. What if...verse 22, Romans 9, "What if God although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction and He did so in order that He might make known...there's a synonym for demonstrates again, phaneroo...the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy which He prepared beforehand for glory."
Now follow this. Again we see God allowing sin to put on a display, to put on a demonstration. What if, although willing, please, willing would be better translated determining, determining. "What if God determining to demonstrate, to display, to openly show His wrath and make His power known endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?" Listen to this. God allowed evil to put His righteousness on display. God allowed evil to put His love on display. And God allowed evil to put His wrath on display. That's verse 22, to demonstrate His wrath. And by doing that, He put His holiness on display.
Would we know God the way we know God without sin? Of course not. We wouldn't know that He is as righteous as He is, as loving as He is, and as holy as He is. God allowed sin so that He could display His wrath. His holy anger over sin, His judgment on sinners...no sin, no display of righteousness, no display of love and no display of holiness. God endured sin. I love the way it's phrased, "He endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction." It was a thing that God had to endure. His holy nature had to endure it. He endured it patiently so that in the end He could display His wrath and its full eternal power.
But not just His wrath. Verse 23, "And He did so in order that He might make known," we could translate this demonstrate as well, "The riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy." To display His mercy. God also willed to make known, gnorizo, to...to display His mercy on the vessels which He had prepared beforehand for glory, that's election. No sin, no mercy...no grace, no forgiveness. No salvation. But it is God's nature to manifest His righteousness and to display and manifest His love, and to display and manifest His wrath, and to display and manifest His grace and His holiness. Listen, the whole reason God ordained evil to exist was for His own glory sake, so that forever and ever holy angels and redeemed saints would give Him glory in full comprehension of all His attributes. Prior to sin God was not worshiped fully for His righteousness against the background of unrighteousness. He was not worshiped nor could be fully for His love until He demonstrated the kind of love that loves enemy, rebel sinners. He was not worshiped fully for His holiness until His wrath displayed how He hated sin. And He was not worshiped for His grace until He displayed forgiveness and mercy on the elect. In every case there is this great disclosure of the nature of God. Why? To display His glory.
Paul gives us a demonstration of this. Go back to verse 17, an illustration and he draws it from Exodus chapter 9 and verse 16. "For the Scripture says to Pharaoh...here's a perfect illustration...for this very purpose I raised you up." Wow, God raised up Pharaoh? God was in charge of Pharaoh being born, growing up in a royal family, ascending to the throne of Egypt? And then being the ruler over the exiled children of Israel, and then making life unbearable for them and then all the plagues, and then all the rest that followed, and the exodus and the drowning of Pharaoh and his entire army? You mean God raised him up? Yes, "For this purpose I raised you up," and here comes our word again, to do what? "To demonstrate My power in you." And it was the power of judgment and it was the power of salvation, Passover, the slain lamb, the blood on the doorposts, that is the greatest Old Testament symbol of salvation, is it not? I raised you up to display My wrath and to display My grace.
Why, God? End of verse 17, "That My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth." In the end, God does everything for His own glory and He has been glorified throughout the whole earth by His people and He will be in the millennial earth and in the new heaven and the new earth. The greatest good, dear ones, is God's glory. The greatest good is God's glory. And if you don't understand that, then you don't have a God-centered world view.
So how do we respond to that? Go back to verse 15...or, 14. Are you struggling with that? Are you saying it doesn't seem fair? Verse 14, "What shall we say? There's no injustice with God, is there?" No, no, no, no. We can't accuse God of being unrighteous. He has a right to do what He wants. I'll have mercy on whom I have mercy. I'll have compassion on whom I have compassion. It doesn't depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. Verse 18, "So then He has mercy on whom He desires. He hardens whom He desires. You will to me...you will say to me then, why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" Are you going to argue with God. Are you going to debate the point that God did what He wanted to do? And he reaches right back to what we read earlier, verse 21 from the Psalms, "Does not the potter have a right over the clay to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?" Are you forgetting who's in charge?
"And He did it all," verse 23, "that He might make known the riches of His glory." There's no other explanation. It reminds me of Job, doesn't it you? Job has all that trouble that God allowed to come into his life. Satan comes down, kills everybody in his family except his wife who was a pain. Told him to curse God and die. Takes away everything he owns. Gives him all kinds of illnesses. And then he gives him a bunch of stupid friends who give him bad answers, and bad theology. We're only valuable as long as they sat in silence for seven days, and as soon as they opened their mouth, all wisdom left. He's all alone. He's trying to sort out what's going on. And he wants an answer from God. It doesn't seem right. Doesn't seem fair. And God finally speaks to him in Job 38, "The Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind," Job 38, "'Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?'" What an introduction. Do I hear somebody down there mumbling? "Gird up your loins like a man and I'll ask you, you instruct Me. 'Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?'" That is to say, "If I needed advice from you, I'd have gotten it. I created everything without you. Tell Me if you have understanding. Who said it was measurements since you know? Who stretched the line on it? Where were its bases sunk? Who laid the cornerstone when the morning star sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Who enclosed the sea with doors and bursting forth it went out from the womb and I made a cloud its garment, thick darkness its swaddling band." The language is just rich. Verse 12, "Have you ever in your life commanded the morning? Have you ever caused the dawn to know its place, Job? Have you ever entered into the springs of the sea, verse 16, or walked in the recesses of the deep? Have the gates of death been revealed to you? Have you seen the gates of deep darkness? Have you understood the expanse of the earth? Tell Me, if you know so much."
Wow, this is what I call tough talk. "So, Job, where's the place to the dwelling of light? Where is the source of light? Where does light come from? And by the way, in verse 25, who has a cleft or a channel for the flood and a way for the thunderbolt to bring rain on the land without people? Can you bind...in verse 31...the chain of the Pleiades, and loose the cords of Orion? And lead forth a constellation in its season and guide the Bear with her satellites? Can you run all the bodies moving in orbit in space? Can you command the clouds...in verse 34...and tell them what to do with water?" Oh, let me get a little simpler, verse 1 of chapter 39, "Do you know the time the mountain goats give birth? Can you count the months they fulfill, or do you know the time they give birth? And who set a wild donkey free, and who loosed the bonds of the swift donkey?" I mean, it's just amazing, this is just tough talk. You have no right to question Me. Chapter 40 verse 1, "The Lord said to Job, 'Will the fault finder content with the Almighty?'" In verse 4, "Okay, Job says to the Lord, 'I'm insignificant, what can I reply to You? I lay my hand on my mouth.'" He's done. Tough talk is I do what I do because I'm God. I do what I do for My glory. And Job got it. Chapter 42, and you have to...you have to get the end of it, verse 1, "Job answered the Lord, said, 'I know You can do all things.'" I affirm that You're the God that Scripture says You are and that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted. Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge? Therefore I have declared that which I do not understand, things too wonderful for me which I didn't know. This is the right response, I don't even know what I'm talking about. Hear now and I'll speak, I'll ask you and do you instruct me?
And then I love this. "I have heard of Thee by the hearing of the ear, now my eyes sees Thee, therefore I retract and I repent in dust and ashes." Tough talk and Job buckles and says "God, I have no right to question You, You are God and You have every right to put Your glory on full display." And evil makes that happen. We will spend forever and ever in the presence of God extolling Him in ways that never would be possible had He not allowed and ordained without ever creating or being the source of it the evil that temporarily dominates the creation. And in His perfect timing, it will all be over and He will destroy this entire universe in a holocaust described by Peter as the elements melting with fervent heat and the creation of a new heaven and a new earth in which only eternal righteousness exists, but we will forever worship with an understanding of the full display of His glory.
Father, we thank You for the insight that comes to us from Your Word. You've told us why. It's not left to mystery. I'm God, I do what I do for My own glory. And how wonderful is it that You have chosen us to be part of that eternal assembly who will give You glory and who will sing praise to the Lamb who was slain. We thank You for the power in the truth. Help us to help others, to answer the deep questions with the straightforward revelation that You've given us. We are in awe, O God, that You have chosen us to be a part of that redeemed community who will understand forever the glory that came and was fully displayed because of sin. What a privilege. We thank You in Christ's name. Amen.
So you see,there is no alternetive!If God Is All powerful,Then He created Evil,If He created evil,then he wanted it there.If he is all knowing,all powerful and everywhere(wich the bible states and shows all the way through)Then he already knew what was going to happen before it did or does,there is no battle between god and satan,Its already been won before it started,so logically,if theres a hell,(and of course there is)then god wills people to be there,can you follow the logic?Its pretty simple!Lucky for us,He wills some of us not to be there!Its His Love gift to Christ,(again its all about him,Not you or me!Once you get this you will finally have peace,Your eyes will truly be opened,and you can rest in Christ(not work to earn something Christ already Paid for with his BLOOD!
In Christ
With love,
steven
P.S.This is my final post on this topic(unless you want to come back with some more brainwashed nonsense,If you do that I will paste and copy the entire internet to keep other seekers from seeing that garbage.
Well...after that I really have nothing to say to you either. You've succeeded in slandering me and my beliefs, and you've basically threatened censorship if I continue talking about it. Are you sure you don't want to persecute me? But know this, God is not a respecter of persons, His word doesn't just come to those who study the longest/have more experience. I'm sure the pope is very old and wise, and you believe he is in error. Your conduct toward me and my beliefs has just cemented my faith in what I believe. The Bible, the Adventist Church, Ellen White, and I...all say that God's true remnant church has followers in all denominations. All adventists are not going to heaven. You say that I'm an unsaved heretic because I have a prophet that agrees with my beliefs. Fine. Sounds like you are the exclusive group. I don't want to join your club anyway:goofball:.
I'm not talking about this to convince you or prove I'm right...because it is unprovable. Matters of faith always are. But hopefully people that read this will see how we each defend our faith. I know what I believe, and you obviously don't know what I believe or you wouldn't put that stuff on here. Because lying or spreading half-truths and expounding on them isn't going to get ME to see your point....whether you did it on purpose or not. It might slander my position, but it's not helping me AT ALL. So that tells me you either don't know my beliefs or you don't care about wanting me to change.
Anyway....have a nice Sabbath...whether you do it on purpose or not.
How could there be such a wide range of "beliefs" if there is only one god? If you believe in something, does that make it true? Take Santa Claus for example. As a kid, totally believed, as an adult...well I still kind of want to believe in a big jolly dude giving out free stuff haha...but yeah, let us just say that me and my little brother don't put out cookies and milk any more. I see two gentlemen here who are obviously dedicated enough to open up the bible and not only read it, but desire to understand it. I see a sword fight, one man's interpretation of the word versus another. Two beliefs, one God...how can this be?
I believe it to be common knowledge that languages don't translate into other languages perfectly, that you cannot get a true understanding of the nature of a translated work unless you understand the original language it was written in. The original bible itself is perfect, to the point that their would be no dispute of it's content. The bible we read today is not perfect, if it was, there would only be one denomination (like there was when God [Jesus] came to the earth and walked in the flesh). God's word has been through a couple of translations, from one language to the next, and through this process has lost some of it's absolute clarity. And while God's word is still the same, we read a watered down version, a shadow of THE truth.
How do we overcome this? By disputing our beliefs over a translated work? Or by understanding the closest to the original work as we can? Who can view their pastor more clearly, a man sitting in the front row or a man sitting in the balcony?
Much time is wasted in disputes, nobody debates the color of the sky. God is one way and one way only. To go that way you have to know Jesus, to know Jesus you have to know God's word. Knowing something is a lot more different than having the idea of something. You want to know what the bible says? Learn Hebrew, Learn Greek, why not make it your new hobby because it will benefit you more than your Bowling League. It's a task, but well worth it...or you can always be a person who takes someone else's word for it, atleast then when you go before God you can say "It's not my fault, I was just following what Reverend So-and-so said".
God will lead those who seek truth to him, regardless of one's past, denomination, or beliefs. Don't give up the search, and don't be so quick to accept what our fellow man says to be truth because as perfect as we all are we still make mistakes.
