Thread: Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
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Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 29 May, 2011 09:09 AM
This is the surprise that I promised : The forgiveness of your sins are not dependent on your asking for forgiveness --- it is unbiblical.
I looked up 8 forms of the word 'forgive' every single place they occurred in the New Testament after weeding out a few that do not apply to the topic here is what I came up with:
Occurs 1 time --- *Forgiveness based on confession. (1John 1:9)
Occurs 4 times --- *Forgiveness based on the blood of Jesus. (Matt26:28 Eph1:7 Col1:14 Heb9:22)
Occurs 5 times --- *Forgiveness given based on nothing. (Matt9:6 Col2:13 Heb8:10-12 Heb10:16-18 1John2:12)
Occurs 7 times --- *Forgiveness based on Faith. (Matt9:2-6 Mark2:5-10 Luke5:20-24 Acts10:34 Acts13:39 Rom4:7-9 Jam5:15)
Occurs 8 times --- *Forgiveness based on as we Forgive others. (Matt6:12-15 Matt18:21-35 Mark11:25 Luke6:37 Luke11:4 2Cor2:7-10 4:32 Col3:13)
Kind a of Occurs 9 times --- *Forgiveness based on repentance. Note: Of the the first five none reference anyone interacting with Jesus, that leaves only 4 verses in Acts, meaning all but two where written by Luke and the two in Mark, one is about John the Baptist and the other a quote of Isaiah. (Mark1:4 Mark4:12 Luke3:3 Luke17:3-4 Luke24:47 Acts2:38 Acts5:31 Acts8:22 Acts26:18)
Forgiveness based on asking for forgiveness Occurs 0 times in the New Testament.
I submit to you that asking for forgiveness is a lack of Faith or Understanding of the Gospel. Your sins are already forgiven--- All Of Them---Past Present and Future! Therefore the only thing that remains for us is to receive Forgiveness through Faith and in turn Forgive others as Jesus has Forgiven us.
What about confession and repentance? This is really about Faith, about agreeing with God about our sin and turning to Him. Many think to repent means to turn from their sin, I disagree --- that is only half way. To repent is a 180� u turn, meaning turning from sin and to God. Just turning from sin is Not repentance ; it is only a 90� turn from sin.
Forgiveness is only found in believing Jesus already has forgiven you, confession and repentance is not as much about forgiveness as it is about you cooperating with God to remove sin from your life, sin that has Already Been Forgiven!
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 30 May, 2011 10:50 PM
T, You made more sense to me...lol.
Of course I don't think that if you don't ask forgiveness for one sin, or forget to ask, or forget something that you won't be forgiven, I'm just saying doesn't your heart cry out, and don't we as humans sort of feel the urge to say sorry, and ask for forgiveness?
Because we feel ashamed, and sad, maybe afraid...maybe because we just want the Lord to understand (As we know eternally he does) that we don't mean to sin, that we don't mean to upset him?
I love you too, T.
Sometimes the differences between people and their hearts and their words, and their ideas are insurmountable.
It causes a harsh and hurtful rift.
Sorry for anyone I have offended here.
I think we all mean the same thing sometimes, we're just speaking different languages.
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 31 May, 2011 07:13 AM
@ MS M.
I hope that this might clear some of this up.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Why is there 'NOW',RIGHT NOW' NOOO CONDEMNATION.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Becuase we have been 'DECLARED,JUSTIFIED' by the one who has the authority,and power to condemn us.
To be 'Justified' is a legal term.
It is to be declared just Not guilty,but also Righteous, by someone that has the authority to make such a declaration.
Even in the face of overwhelming evidence against myself.
How did YHWH accomplish this.
He needed someone to be taking my place,my sin,and the condemnation of my sin upon Himself.
This person would recieve the judgement that deserved for my sin.
What would i then recieve,FREEDOM from judgement,and Adoption into His family.
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 31 May, 2011 10:56 AM
One thing I think I can say as factual since I've been coming to this forum. TS is a teacher with a heart of gold who only wants to keep the "herd" on the right path, away from predators and snakes. He's a true, white hat. :applause:
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 31 May, 2011 11:50 AM
"forgiveness"
occurs 7 times in 7 verses in the KJV
Psa 130:4~ But [there is] forgiveness 5547 with thee, that thou mayest be feared 3372.
Mar 3:29~ But 1161 he 3739 that 302 shall blaspheme 987 against 1519 the Holy 40 Ghost 4151 hath 2192 never 3756 1519 165 forgiveness 859, but 235 is 2076 in danger 1777 of eternal 166 damnation 2920:
Act 5:31~ Him 5126 hath God 2316 exalted 5312 with his 846 right hand 1188 [to be] a Prince 747 and 2532 a Saviour 4990, for to give 1325 repentance 3341 to Israel 2474, and 2532 forgiveness 859 of sins 266.
Act 13:38~ Be it 2077 known 1110 unto you 5213 therefore 3767, men 435 [and] brethren 80, that 3754 through 1223 this man 5127 is preached 2605 unto you 5213 the forgiveness 859 of sins 266:
Act 26:18~ To open 455 their 846 eyes 3788, [and] to turn 1994 [them] from 575 darkness 4655 to 1519 light 5457, and 2532 [from] the power 1849 of Satan 4567 unto 1909 God 2316, that they 846 may receive 2983 forgiveness 859 of sins 266, and 2532 inheritance 2819 among 1722 them which are sanctified 37 by faith 4102 that is in 1519 me 1691.
Eph 1:7~ In 1722 whom 3739 we have 2192 redemption 629 through 1223 his 846 blood 129, the forgiveness 859 of sins 3900, according 2596 to the riches 4149 of his 846 grace 5485;
Col 1:14~ In 1722 whom 3739 we have 2192 redemption 629 through 1223 his 846 blood 129, [even] the forgiveness 859 of sins 266:
*** All are Forgiven & All have much to Forgive ***...xo
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 31 May, 2011 12:39 PM
Yes, Jesus Christ died a suffering painful death on the cross for the remission (forgiveness) of our sins, so that those who believed in/on Him would not perish but would have eternal life in glory in His kingdom as co-heir and joint heir with Him.
And this the cross was God's way of providing man with a solution to resolve man's sins and reconcile man back to Himself, His creations and His children, sons and daughters of God righteous in Hi sight. Every believers in Christ is now, able to as the writer of Hebrews chapter 10 says, come boldly before the throne of grace in times of need, temptation, troubles, sickness or whatever we have need of, in prayer and make our prayer request made know to God without doubt or fear in holy boldness.
Because we are now called believers in Christ and now have a way through repentance and confession of our sins before a holy God, to be set free and made clean of our daily sins. God through the blood of Jesus lets us know that because we are now His children and His Only Son died so that we might be free from sins and the accusations of Satan accusing us before God about our sins... He has made a way for us to get rid of our sins and receive forgiveness, and so exhorts believers saying, if My people who are called by My name would humble themselves and pray and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways (repent of their sins), THEN I WILL FORGIVE THEIR SIN AND HEAL THIR LAND.
When there is sincere repentances of sins there is forgiveness of sins, and we are now free from our old sin debts through God's Son who carried our sins upon His shoulders, and nailed them to the cross therefore, RIGHT NOW, this moment, this is the ONLY REASON why there is therefore, NO CONDMENATION to/for those who are in/believers in Christ Jesus, who DO NOT WALK AFTER OR ACCORDING TO (means to continue sinning after being born again) THE FLESH, BUT ARE WALKING AFTER/IN OR ACCORDING TO THE Holy Spirit which is the Spirit of God and the Lord Jesus Christ..AND Notice God DID NOT says, there is NO CONDEMNATION FOR THOSE BELIEVERS WHO ARE WALKING ACCORDING TO THE FLESH... meaning walking in the sins of the flesh, but are THERE IS NO CONDEMNATION FOR THOSE BELIEVERS WHO ARE NOT WALKING IN THE FLESH, BUT ARE WALKING ACCORDING TO THE THINGS/WAYS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, LIVING a life style pleasing to God.. Jesus says a just person needs no repentance... uh, so who are just in thier ways before God?
Confession of our sins before a holy God, brings us to repentance, and when we repent of our sins of that day, we receive forgiveness of those sins we have committed for that day from God.
God also knows our daily needs, but He requires of us to ask of Him, this is why He says to PRAY ALWAYS ASKING, GIVE US THIS DAY OUR DAILY BREAD AND FORGIVE US OUR DEBTS which imeans our SIN DEBTS that we have sinned against God, as we forgive those who have sinned against us... so why does He tells us to ask for forgiveness in our prayers? This means we are to forgive others of their sin debts who have sinned against us, AS meaning we will do this, forgive others who have sinned against us and ask God to forgive us. As David prays, I acknowledge my transgressions and my sin is ever before me, Against YOU, Lord, YOU only have I sinned and done this evil in YOUR sight. When we sin against others, we sin against God, and when we sin against God, we break His commandments and fellowship with Him, as was the case with David. And we are to pray, confess, repent and ask forgiveness from God for our sins against others and those sins we commit agianst God..
This is why many are as they are in their life having problems, having personal problems and sicknesses, because of pride and thinking Jesus has already paid for their sins and forgiven me, and think and feel they have no need to keep asking Him for forgiveness, and they have failed to repent and ask for God to forgive them of sins commited yesterday.
This has not one thing to do with confessing and repenting of our sins upon salvation, this about doing this in humility on a daily bases, covering your sins each day of our life. The blood that Jesus shed on the cross for our sins provides us this opportunity so that WE CAN COME and repnet and ask for forgiveness from God, and as David says, My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise. Psalm 51
Again, Forgiveness is conditional upon our confession and repentance, if there is no confession or repentance before God, there is no forgiveness FROM GOD. Confession of our sins leads to repentance, and opens the door for God to forgive us on a daily bases, yes, sure, Jesus took care of our sins on the cross, so we can find forgiveness each day from God, and we are covered when we confess and repent..
Also know this, that salvation mean deliverance, so repentance leads to deliverance not only for ones salvation but also deliverance from sins and everything else that is displeasing to God.
Yes, Jesus died for our sins, so that we MIGHT HAVE THE FREEDOM or have the PRIVILEGE of coming to God, and before God in REPENTANCE, not so that we might keep going on sinning thinking everything is covered.... thats' self-pride and arrogrance before God... you cannot continue to sin and think that Jesus already paid the price and we have been forgiven, so we will just casually confess and apologizes and keep it moving. NO! NO! The devil is a liar. For the Lord is not slack (slow) in keeping His promise, as some understand slowness. Instead He is patient with us, not wanting anyone to perish, but EVERYONE TO COME TO REPENTANCE. 1 Peter chapter 3.
Jesus teaches us that if someone sins against us and comes to you and REPENTS, not apologizes, BUT REPENTS �there is a BIG DIFFERENCE IN REPENTING AND APOLOGZIING for an offense or wrong... but if one comes and REPENTS and turn away from doing whatever, and then does something else and comes again and REPENTS you are required to forgive. BUT, if there is no REPENTANCE how can there be forgiveness? This same principle applies with God.
PLEASE DO NOT BE DECEIVED, because God is not mocked, if you DO NOT REPENT of your sins and ask God to forgive you of those sins that you have committed that day willingly or unwillingly by commission, submission, omission, or permission you are spiritually out of fellowship with God.�Therefore, to the one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.� James chapter 4.
For If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be PUNISHED who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, �It is mine to avenge; I will repay,� and again, �The Lord will judge His people.� It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews chapter 10. And God will then chastise you for those sins you have not repented of or asked Him to forgive. Hebrews chapter 12.. if everything has been taken of , and there is no need to ask God to forgive or to repent, why does He chasten us for our worng when there is no repentance?
This is VERY SERIOUS, and again, Confession leads us to repentance and repentance brings forth God's forgiveness.
What shall we say then? Shall we continue to sin, so that grace might abound? God forbid! How shall we, who are dead to sin (born again believers), live any longer in sins? Romans chapter 6.
God encourages us to come boldly before His throne of grace to find mercy during our time of need, and there is not one person who does not need God's forgiveness of sins to revive us again and make us anew each and everyday, So that we might stay in fellowship with Christ.
If you say that you have no sin (past or present), you deceived yourselves and the truth is not in you.
If you confess (which leads to repentance) your sins (past or present), God is faithful and just to forgive your sins, and to cleanse you from ALL unrighteousness. If you say that you have not sinned (past/present/future) you make God a liar, and His word is not in you. I John chapter 1.
Y'all can take this or leave, its between you and your God. For God has not required of me to MAKE anyone listen or hear, He has ONLY required of me to let it be known and to WARN... and when I've done my part to the best of my ability, then it is finished, and the rest is His business....
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 31 May, 2011 03:32 PM
If et repents and asks forgiveness every time she's arrogant, prideful, flat-out mean to God's children, tells a lie, etc.(all of which she has done here on this forum), I'm surprised she has time to write such long-winded posts trying to un-do teachings the Lord has layed on the hearts of men of God to share. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ And et you're responses to joey in her biblical to expose thread show just how arrogant and pride filled you are. You sound like satan. Is he your father? Why must you try to tear down Wonderful teachers?
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 31 May, 2011 04:45 PM
P.S. et, as far as your post goes, I'm not taking it; I'm leaving it. You are one of the most arrogant, pride filled, flesh driven people I've seen on this forum ---and to quote yourself, "thanks, but no thanks". I'd much rather be taught by Spirit Led Teachers.
