There are a number of Scriptures that teach us that the scope of Christ's death was limited to the elect. Here are a few of them:
Just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for MANY (Matthew 20:28).
The "many" for whom Christ died are the elect of God, just as Isaiah had said long before,
By his knowledge my righteous servant will justify MANY, and he will bear their iniquities. (Isaiah 53:11)
The Lord Jesus made it clear that His death was for His people when He spoke of the Shepherd and the sheep:
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep....just as the Father knows me and I know the Father---and I lay down my life for THE SHEEP (John 10:11, 15).
The good Shepherd lays down His life in behalf of the sheep. Are all men the sheep of Christ? Certainly not, for most men do not know Christ, and Christ says that His sheep know Him (John 10:14). Further, Jesus specifically told the Jews who did not believe in Him, "but you do not believe because you are not my sheep" (John 10:26). Note that in contrast with the idea that we believe and therefore make ourselves Christ's sheep, Jesus says that they do not believe because they are not His sheep! Whether one is of Christ's sheep is the Father's decision (John 6:37, 8:47), not the sheep's!
...just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for US as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God....husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up FOR HER to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless (Ephesians 5:2, 25-27).
Christ gave Himself in behalf of His Church, His Body, and that for the purpose of cleansing her and making her holy. If this was His intention for the Church, why would He give Himself for those who are not of the Church? Would He not wish to make these "others" holy as well? Yet, if Christ died for all men, there are many, many who will remain impure for all eternity. Was Christ's death insufficient to cleanse them? Certainly not. Did He have a different goal in mind in dying for them? [I am not here denying that the death of Christ had effects for all men, indeed, for all of creation. I believe that His death is indeed part of the "summing up of all things" in Christ. But, we are speaking here solely with the salvific effect of the substitutionary atonement of Christ. One might say that Christ's death has an effect upon those for whom it was not intended as an atoning sacrifice.] No, His sacrificial death in behalf of His Church results in her purification, and this is what He intended for all for whom He died.
He who did not spare His own Son, but gave him up for us all---how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring a charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died---more than that, who was raised to life---is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us (Romans 8:32-34).
The Father gave the Son in our place. Who is the "our" of this passage? The text says that it is "those whom God has chosen," that is, the elect of God. Again, the intercessory work of Christ at the right hand of the Father is presented in perfect harmony with the death of Christ---those for whom Christ died are those for whom He intercedes. And, as this passage shows, if Christ intercedes for someone, who can possibly bring a charge against that person and hope to see them condemned? So we see what we have seen before: Christ dies in someone's place, He intercedes for them, and they are infallibly saved. Christ's work is complete and perfect. He is the powerful Savior, and He never fails to accomplish His purpose.
Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for HIS FRIENDS (John 15:13).
Are all the friends of Christ? Do all own His name? Do all bow before Him and accept Him as Lord? Do all do His commandments (John 15:14)? Then not all are His friends.
While we wait for the blessed hope---the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself FOR US to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good (Titus 2:13-14).
Both the substitutionary element of the cross (gave himself for us) and the purpose thereof (to redeem us...to purify) are forcefully presented to Titus. If it was the purpose of Christ to redeem and purify those for whom He died, can this possibly not take place?
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save HIS PEOPLE from their sins (Matthew 1:21).
Christ will save His people from their sins Well, did He? Did He save His people, or did He not?
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me (Galatians 2:20).
This is the common confession of every true believer in Christ. We died with Him, our Substitute, the one who loved us and gave Himself in our behalf.
We have seen, then, that the Word teaches that Christ died for many, for His sheep, for the Church, for the elect of God, for His friends, for a people zealous for good works, for His people, for each and every Christian.
Guys Calvinist only reference to scripture is simply a tool for their doctrine of men and devils, there is no truth in it, they avoid the simplicity of believing what is written.
Scripture is only valid to them to exhort men and women to their belief, not to the lord.
Their doctrine at no times honors the lord, or displays any reverence to him.
No matter what you present to them in truth, it is not true, thus by there actions denying the lord, and his sacrifice.
Here is another scripture as an example:
Rom 6:7 � Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Rom 6:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Rom 6:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
One thing the holy spirit is to do is convict the sinner of rejecting Jesus, because they do not believe on Jesus.
Yet they say the lord is just, but they say man can not believe because of the lie of total inability.
The one continual thread of truth about who will be part of the family of God is the one that believes on the lord Jesus.
Their only defense for that is the lie of total inability. they will not agree with scripture
Actually Calvinism claims to be the most accurate doctrine, and the one common thread in Calvinism is denying the lord Jesus by continually denying his word.
James, WHY do you continue to post stuff here from other writers? Especially when these articles totally distort our beliefs to fit their own argument against us who do not believe as they do. In fact, why do you continue to post Calvanistic articles, period? It's no wonder you are so sucked into this theology. You must have myriads of writings from these people. You post more from them than from Scripture. You argue from their point of view. You let them do your talking.
Why are you being so hard headed? There is no scripture negatively stating Jesus did not die for all sin for all men.
James replies:
LOL! Tightening up the rules now are we?
1. There is no Scripture saying that Jesus died for everyone who ever lived. The CLOSEST you would have would be the "all" and "world" verses, and if you say Jesus died for everyone, then that would contradict all the clear verses that say He died specifically for His people.
2. You reject the Positive statements saying Jesus died for the ones that God gave Him? I mean if you had even one verse that said that Jesus died for everyone who ever lived, then I could see you saying that Jesus died for the elect AND everyone else, but you don't have that.
3. John 17:9 "I pray for them, I do not pray for the world but for those you have given me."
So, according to you......Jesus died for everyone in the whole world, but he would not pray for them???????
Twosparrows continues:
The view I presented you agrees with all Scripture and still you refuse to believe. So much so that you would rather agree with a doctrine that does Not agree with all Scripture!
Why?
Have you been indoctrinated in Calvinism since you were a young child?
James replies:
First off your view does NOT agree with Scripture! If we have TEN verses saying that Jesus died for a specific group, and you say,"No, Jesus died for everyone that ever lived" then we have a contradiction.
"indoctrinated in Calvinism"? I did not come from a Christian home, the Lord saved me when I was 25. I became a member of First Baptist church, and one day after being there a year, a man said I should read Romans. I did. When I got to Romans 9, and it said that GOD is the one who saves, and it is according to HIS choice, I shrugged my shoulders and said, "Well, God has a right to do with His creation as He pleases." And I went on with my life. At that moment, I accepted God's Word on unconditional election. I had never even heard the word Calvinism.
Now, about YOU........YOU have been indoctrinated into Arminianism and PROOF of it is you never even heard the WORD until a Calvinist told you!! I understand that we are all naturally Arminian. It is natural to think that our decision is the reason we accepted Jesus, and it is sweet to think that Jesus died for everyone who ever lived. It just isn't what the Bible teaches.
And since the Bible DOES teach that Jesus died for us SPECIFICALLY, and our sins WERE LITERALLY paid for AT the cross, God's love is MUCH more precise and all powerful than the Arminian view.
Twosparrows continues:
James, the issue of sin is a problem for man, not God, God has taken care of this issue out of Love for man, all men, if they believe. Try as you may to say different, you are in disagreement with Scripture and don't fully comprehend the multi facets of the Cross.
Sin is Paid for in Full for all men.
James replies:
That makes no sense. You are saying that all the people in Hell right now, have had their sins paid for????
Sin the REASON people are in Hell. If anyone's sins are paid for, they are perfectly righteous in God's eyes, and they will NEVER experience Hell.
twosparrows continues:
Therefore it they stand redeemed or condemned by their belief. The unpardonable sin is to refuse to believe the Holy Spirit, in essence calling Him a liar, ie : blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, that is why men go to hell, that and their are some that love death.
Your doctrine has God choosing them unconditionally before they were created to go to hell, sorry that does not agree with the revealed nature of God in Scripture.
James replies:
Yes, I said that was what you had a problem with a long time ago. I get it, you don't think God has the right to create people He knows will go to Hell. Well, Romans 9 says He did, and John 6 says that NO ONE can come to Jesus unless the Father draws them. Forget that the Arminian view still has God creating people He knew would reject Him. The FACT is, God gave Adam and Eve free will, and He KNEW they would disobey Him.
"the revealed nature of God" in Scripture is not a god who is like Santa Clause. God COULD have chosen to save NO ONE, and He STILL WOULD HAVE BEEN PERFECTLY JUST. He could have chosen to save everyone, but what Scripture teaches is that He decided to save some. This does NOT make him unjust OR unloving.
Some get incredible mercy, many get perfect justice,
James you probably did not do it on purpose but you context for Jesus praying for the elect in Jn 17 is readily understood he was praying for his disciples present tense, but even if you want to disregard that truth,
Here is another stumbling block for Calvin:
Jn 17:20 � Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Again James Jesus made this statement again and again, you can not agree with it because if you do, Calvinism is dead, because it's foundation is built upon the foundation of the lost not being able to believe, the very requirement Jesus made of the sinner.
The goodness of God is so readily revealed in this message to the church:
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 � Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ�s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
As Two Sparrows has told you time and time again sin is not the problem, the father declares all reconciled to him and that is the message of the church to the sinner.
It is easy : When you accept Christs offer you receive a spiritual lotto ticket, a scratcher in your name stored in heaven, when you die and leave this earth your ticket is pulled from heavens vault at which time the ticket is scratched off, if you get three "elect" you win and get to stay in heaven. It is something like that, for the rest of the details James will have to answer.
Romans 9: (10) And not only so, but also Rebekah conceiving of one, our father Isaac, (11) for [the children] not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of the [One] calling, (12) it was said to her, The greater shall serve the lesser; (13) even as it has been written, I loved Jacob, and I hated Esau. (14) What then shall we say? [Is there] not unrighteousness with God? Let it not be! (15) For He said to Moses, I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will pity whomever I will pity. (16) So, then, [it is] not of the [one] willing, nor of the [one] running, but of the [One] showing mercy, of God. (17) For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, For this very thing I raised you up, so that I might display My power in you, and so that My name might be publicized in all the earth. (18) So, then, to whom He desires, He shows mercy. And to whom He desires, He hardens. (19) You will then say to me, Why does He yet find fault? For who has resisted His will? (20) Yes, rather, O man, who are you answering against God? Shall the thing formed say to the [One] forming [it], Why did You make me like this? (21) Or does not the potter have authority over the clay, out of the one lump to make one vessel to honor, and one to dishonor? (22) But if God, desiring to demonstrate His wrath, and to make His power known, endured in much long-suffering vessels of wrath having been fitted out for destruction, (23) and that He make known the riches of His glory on vessels of mercy which He before prepared for glory, (24) whom He also called, not only us, of Jews, but also out of nations.
For all of you who want to keep the glory for yourselves,humble yourself with this verse and realize,ITS ALL ABOUT GOD,you dont get any credit,Not even credit for accepting the free gift because you lousy sinners wouldnt even desire God if he hadnt opened your eyes!Your A lump of finite clay!!!!Your only purpose in the universe is to Glorify the only being in the universe worth Glorifying......and it aint you!Get over yourselves......If Christ Died for ALLL then ALL would be saved....Its not About you or me....We are a gift from the father to the son....thats it,nothing more
Steve as for those that believe in the ransom of the lord Jesus christ, they are not hung up on themselves as you project it is actually the other way around, the calvinist lying on God and elevating themselves thru and those that adore him (Calvin)
The father says you honor him and the son when you believe him thru his word and you dishonor him when you believe not his word.
Arminian Speaking;Oh Father thankyou for making me a very accepting guy,You see IM not like that sinner down the street ,He wouldnt accept you at all,Im not like him,I got something special,Uh....an accepting power that that sinner just dont have....go ahead Lord,just throw something right at me....I guess your power isnt good enough for "ALL"....But me Im acceptng....Just mark that down on my old glory card Lord,because after all you dont have the power to grant me salvation lesson I accept it,Hmmm,if you look at it that way,your kind of powerless,theres something you CANT do,that is make it possible for me to be saved if its against my nature,but thats ok Lord,See im a very accepting fellow and I got a power you dont,that is to change my heart myself when its against my nature.So you just sit Down and relax Lord,I got this....Ill just turn on my accepting power full blast and change my old hard heart,and Ill make these old blind eyes see!Ill go round acting all sweet and nice and humble tellin folks about you....but Me and you Lord we gots us a secret....That is my accepting nature changin power!
Now trhe real Christian:Lord thankyou for saving a sinner like me,for I know its nothing Ive done,But Christ in me,the hope of glory
