Why is it that in the brief time I have put in searching through our rich church history I can not find anywhere tongues being described as the charismatics define it today? In every instance where it is even mentioned, and that is in very few places, it is defined as another language not known to the speaker, such as Spanish, French, German, etc.
It was not until 1909 some people in California started acting weird and speaking in strange babbling that the Pentecostal movement got started. Most of the time the wacky far out stuff we see today iWhy is it that in the brief time I have put in searching through our rich church history I can not find anywhere tongues being described as the charismatics define it today? In every instance where it is even mentioned, and that is in very few places, it is defined as another language not known to the speaker, such as Spanish, French, German, etc.
It was not until 1909 some people in California started acting weird and speaking in strange babbling that the Pentecostal movement got started. Most of the time the wacky far out stuff we see today is associated with the charismatic churches or preachers. Why do we not see this gift in our church history for 1800 years and now we have people who will vehemently fight a bitter fight for this belief?
Personally I do not take the definition of tongues describe by some here or by the charismatic churches. Remember speaking in tongues as a strange babbling is something that does happen in satanic worship. And the devil does disguise himself as an angel of light and is deceiving many. Oh but of course all those here on the forums are to spiritual for the devil to deceive so that can't be what I am suggesting here.
There are 5 sources speaking in tongues can come from
1. The Holy Spirit and I don't believe that is happening the way people describe it, every time I hear about it it sounds unbiblical anyway.
2. Demonic. My personal pick for what influences most people.
3. Showmanship or entertainment. This I have seen and heard and it made me laugh so I guess it was entertaining. But yet sad because of the deceived souls falling for it.
4. A lunatic. Some are just plan out of their mind or acting like they are.
5. Ignorance. People want so badly to be a part of something they think they need to do this to be accepted so the play it out.
I know this will start a fire storm and I am not going to argue this point. I have studied Acts 2 and know about the Holy Spirit and things that went on all through the book, I have done my research and am convinced of what the Holy Spirit in my studies has reveled to me on this subject. I want to ask if you are a person who thinks they speak in tongues try not wearing it on your sleeve as a badge here. It is not very pretty to those who think you are wrong or just plan weird.
Now this brings me to what I have always wondered. I hear all the time about essentials and non essentials to salvation. As long as we have the essentials right we can be wrong on the non essentials and still call each other brother. Really? Is that true? Is that biblical? How much can someone be wrong and still be right? Is there not but 1 truth? I mean hey I could be wrong on the tongues issue but that probably means I am wrong about a lot of other important doctrines as well if I am using the same hermeneutic principles else where as I used on my study of tongues. Or vise versa if I am right about tongues and I did use the proper hermeneutical principles to know this, then those that are wrong could be wrong on other important issues as well.
Like I have said before PJ describes a god I can not find in the bible. His constant attacks on the character and nature of the God I see and know from the Bible and against those who follow God are blasphemous at best and heretical at worst. Because of this I can not call PJ brother. He is my neighbor so I am to love him as such but embrace as brother I can not do with the limited information I know about him. His fruit is bad so I have to come to the conclusion he is a bad tree because bad fruit can not come from a good tree.
Ok all you tongue believers have at it! If there is one thorn that can get people bent out of shape is to call their tongue gift false or fake, it will get a fire storm started every time.
s associated with the charismatic churches or preachers. Why do we not see this gift in our church history for 1800 years and now we have people who will vehemently fight a bitter fight for this belief?
Personally I do not take the definition of tongues describe by some here or by the charismatic churches. Remember speaking in tongues as a strange babbling is something that does happen in satanic worship. And the devil does disguise himself as an angel of light and is deceiving many. Oh but of course all those here on the forums are to spiritual for the devil to deceive so that can't be what I am suggesting here.
There are 5 sources speaking in tongues can come from
1. The Holy Spirit and I don't believe that is happening the way people describe it, every time I hear about it it sounds unbiblical anyway.
2. Demonic. My personal pick for what influences most people.
3. Showmanship or entertainment. This I have seen and heard and it made me laugh so I guess it was entertaining. But yet sad because of the deceived souls falling for it.
4. A lunatic. Some are just plan out of their mind or acting like they are.
5. Ignorance. People want so badly to be a part of something they think they need to do this to be accepted so the play it out.
I know this will start a fire storm and I am not going to argue this point here. I have studied Acts 2 and know about the Holy Spirit and things that went on all through the book, I have done my research and am convinced of what the Holy Spirit in my studies has reveled to me on this subject. I want to ask if you are a person who thinks they speak in tongues try not wearing it proudly on your sleeve as a badge. It is not very pretty to those who think you are wrong or just plan weird.
Now this brings me to what I have always wondered. I hear all the time about essentials and non essentials to salvation. As long as we have the essentials right we can be wrong on the non essentials and still call each other brother. Really? Is that true? Is that biblical? How much can someone be wrong and still be right? Is there not but 1 truth? I mean hey I could be wrong on the tongues issue but that probably means I am wrong about a lot of other important doctrines as well if I am using the same hermeneutic principles else where as I used on my study of tongues. Or vise versa if I am right about tounges and I did use the proper hermeneutical principles to know this, then those that are wrong could be wrong on other important issues as well.
Like I have said before PJ describes a god I can not find in the bible. His constant attacks on the character and nature of the God I see and know from the Bible and against those who follow God are blasphemous at best and heretical at worst. Because of this I can not call PJ brother. He is my neighbor so I am to love him as such but embrace as brother I can not do with the limited information I know about him. His fruit is bad so I have to come to the conclusion he is a bad tree because bad fruit can not come from a good tree.
Ok all you tongue believers have at it! If there is one thorn that can get people bent out of shape is to call their tongue gift false or fake, it will get a fire storm started every time.
Row,:hearts: apology accepted. I do understand where you're coming from, but we are taught to have compassion on those who are of the household of faith, and may not have the spiritual insights and/or be as spiritually mature as we make THINk we are.
I know PJ can get under your skin at times, sometime I feel like pulling out my hair, but I also undertsand he is growing and we must be patient with him, just as others who assisted and help us to come into the knowledgeof the word were with us.
And just as I made mention to others who had some problems with PJ, and how he expresses himself... no matter what, at least he is trying. We who claim to be stronger and claim we are more spiritually capable in knowledge, wisdom and understanding in the Word, we are exhorted show this in our conduct and behavior, and to have compassion toward those who lack in spiritually in certain areas. We must be apt to teach with PATIENCE AND MEEKNESS. of course, after you have clocked his blocker off:ROFL::boxing:
Row, I ain't mad atcha, I just want you to be the Christian I know God is calling you to be, and stop allowing your flesh to dictate your behavior and what you speak toward those you diagree with, over write your mouth... get angry but sin not... I don't think there is a person on this forum who hasn't gotten angry at PJ, and expressed their anger to him. I also know that PJ, has gotten angry with everyone as well, including me, and has said things that would have been offended many. But as a strong Christian, Jesus has already told us that offenses would come, therefore why would anyone still allow such to offend them, if you are who you say you are in Christ, and already know these things will happen?
Offenses, This is to be expected, and PJ has come a loooooooooong ways in his spiriual growth. PRAISE GOD! :applause::glow::angel::party:
As long as he does acknowledge that Jesus Christ is his Lord and Savior, PJ, is our brother in Christ... so go wash your face , take a deep breath, put a smile on your face, and continue posting those things of interest to you and others for good discussion .
We must receive PJ as our brother whether welike it or not, and if he has things all confused, what a great opportunity God has placed in our midst for witinessing to our brother.
Therefore, do you ignore such an opportunity for witnessing? Or leave it alone just because you don't like what he says, and/or the manner he expresses himself about God?
Always remember, Your witness is based on Christ , not PJ and his rambling:dancingp::glow::applause::applause::peace:
PJ, you stand corrected... Jesus never taught anyone to speak in tongues. And as I and Row and others have said, the tongues the Bible speaks about that the disciples spoke, where languages of all those who were in Jerusalem durin the feast which ws called Pentecost... God gave them languages, which is only another word for tongues, so that they could minister to those people form all the idfferent regions.
I beleive in speaking in the idfferent langues (tongues), and i beleive there are people who have spoken in a language they have never spoken in. BUT, most of this stuff that is going on in many Pentecostal, Assembly o God, and other churches where people are supposedly speaking in tongues in not the languages or tongues as given by the Holy Spirit to be spoken in the church.
Number one when a person speaks in the church as some do, they are pout of order,a dn in disobedience, becasue Paul says DO NOT speak this is the church, becasue no one understands what you're saying. Why speak an Idian dialect if there is no one from an Indian tribe to understand what you're saying.
Secondly, if these people are truly, speakign words givent o them by the Hoyl Sprit why are they always saying the same things over and over every Sunday. Only a few words. There are many labnguages in the world that we have never heard of, and they just might be saying onyl a few of these words, and during the time Christ is to return, God may just have them witnessing to the people of these languages. We don't know, but until uch time, Paul says KEEP SILENT IN THE CHURCH if there is no interperter. Plus, why would you speak a language in a church, when everyone in the church speaks english? half the people don;'t unstand what God is spekaing in english, not to speak of another language... duuuuh!:zzzz:
Now that's the WORD!:rocknroll::bow:
And I say, If you have a language you speak at home in your secret closet, that's between you and God, and just as others should not condemn anyone for speaking in what they called tongues, unless its in the church. Nor should you or anyone condemn anyone else, because they don't believe in speaking in tongues.
God has always proven Hijself to the doubters, So Maybe God will give them a language, and the next time they answer the phone it will be in a tongue they have never spoken or heard of...:rocknroll::excited::bouncy:
PJ, I know you are trying to come into the knowledge and understanding of God 's word, just as we all are, and no one on this forum has the know all.
However, I have some things against you, my frined. All the guys who have blasted you, and most assuredly it has not been without cause, but it was uncalled for and not proper for them to do. Nevertheless, they have ALL come forth and apologzied for their unChrist-like behavior toward you.
It is not their fault that you have a lack spiritual menatl block of hearing, listening, and understanding what they have been trying to get across to you when interpreting God's word, but as Christians, they are to assist you with these things.
I've noticed, NOT ONCE HAVE YOU POSTED A COMMENT ACCEPTING THEIR APOLOGY! NOR HAVE YOU EVER APOLOGIZED TO THEM FOR NOT UNDERSTANDING, NOR HAVE YOU POSTED AN APOLOGY FOR ANY OF YOUR RUDE COMMENTS. THUS, TYHIS MAKES YOU ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE!
For whatever reason your PRIDE refuses to allow you to post a comment of accepting their apology, and YOU YOURSELF HAVE REFUSED TO APOLOGZIE FOR YOUR IRRATIONAL AND YOUR IRRITANT conduct and behavior.
So your acceptance of APOLOGY TO ALL THE GUYS WHO HAVE SPOKEN OUT HARSHLY AGAINST YOU, IS PAST DUE. THEREFORE, I WOULD STRONGLY SUGGEST TO YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS, post an acceptance of their apology, and then POST YOUR OWN APOLOGY TO THEN FOR YOUR contaray behavior and hardheadness and pride!
Examine yoursefl to see if indeed you are in Christ as you say you are, then you will have no problems with posting an acceptance of their apology, and then posting your own apology to them. thanks.
Now Ella I will accept your apology, for one we are never to approach the word of God mentally or carnally as you continue to mention.
In your response you mentioned two different topics whether you realize it or not,
Speaking in tongues is not the same as the gift of tongues. the word is very clear on that.
Now in my bible Jesus is the logos and the living word of God made manifest.
In Acts ch 2 the believers spoke in tongues as the Holy Spirit gave them utterance, this is only one manifestation the bible speaks of, this is the evidence of the believers receiving the holy spirit just as they where encouraged to do.
A christian does not contact God with his mind or reasoning faculties, ever.
