Mark, here is what Acts chapetr 2, verse 34 says and what it means.
For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself, The Lord said to my Lord, sit at My right hand, till I make Your enemies Your footstool.
The key word here is ASCEND, first of all Peter is speaking about Jesus ASCENDING into heaven, NOT DAVID. David did not asend into heaven after he died, ONLY JESUS ASENDED INTO HEAVEN. Daivd's body is still in the grave, this is the point Peter is making, but Jesus's body ascended into heaven and it is David speaking about what God said to Jesus, to David saying, , The Lord (God) said to my Lord(Jesus), sit at My (God is speaking here to Jesus) right hand, till I (God) make YOUR (Jesus) your enemies your footstool.
David is repeating what God told him, this is not about David its about Jesus.
Question: "How is eternity in hell a fair punishment for sin?"
Answer: This is an issue that bothers many people who have an incomplete understanding of three things: the nature of God, the nature of man, and the nature of sin. As fallen, sinful human beings, the nature of God is a difficult concept for us to grasp. We tend to see God as a kind, merciful Being whose love for us overrides and overshadows all His other attributes. Of course God is loving, kind, and merciful, but He is first and foremost a holy and righteous God. So holy is He that He cannot tolerate sin. He is a God whose anger burns against the wicked and disobedient (Isaiah 5:25; Hosea 8:5; Zechariah 10:3). He is not only a loving God�He is love itself! But the Bible also tells us that He hates all manner of sin (Proverbs 6:16-19). And while He is merciful, there are limits to His mercy. �Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near. Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon� (Isaiah 55:6-7).
Humanity is corrupted by sin, and that sin is always directly against God. When David sinned by committing adultery with Bathsheba and having Uriah murdered, he responded with an interesting prayer: �Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight�� (Psalm 51:4). Since David had sinned against Bathsheba and Uriah, how could he claim to have only sinned against God? David understood that all sin is ultimately against God. God is an eternal and infinite Being (Psalm 90:2). As a result, all sin requires an eternal punishment. God�s holy, perfect, and infinite character has been offended by our sin. Although to our finite minds our sin is limited in time, to God�who is outside of time�the sin He hates goes on and on. Our sin is eternally before Him and must be eternally punished in order to satisfy His holy justice.
No one understands this better than someone in hell. A perfect example is the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Both died, and the rich man went to hell while Lazarus went to paradise (Luke 16). Of course, the rich man was aware that his sins were only committed during his lifetime. But, interestingly, he never says, �How did I end up here?� That question is never asked in hell. He does not say, �Did I really deserve this? Don't you think this is a little extreme? A little over the top?� He only asks that someone go to his brothers who are still alive and warn them against his fate.
Like the rich man, every sinner in hell has a full realization that he deserves to be there. Each sinner has a fully informed, acutely aware, and sensitive conscience which, in hell, becomes his own tormenter. This is the experience of torture in hell�a person fully aware of his or her sin with a relentlessly accusing conscience, without relief for even one moment. The guilt of sin will produce shame and everlasting self-hatred. The rich man knew that eternal punishment for a lifetime of sins is justified and deserved. That is why he never protested or questioned being in hell.
The realities of eternal damnation, eternal hell, and eternal punishment are frightening and disturbing. But it is good that we might, indeed, be terrified. While this may sound grim, there is good news. God loves us (John 3:16) and wants us to be saved from hell (2 Peter 3:9). But because God is also just and righteous, He cannot allow our sin to go unpunished. Someone has to pay for it. In His great mercy and love, God provided His own payment for our sin. He sent His Son Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for our sins by dying on the cross for us. Jesus� death was an infinite death because He is the infinite God/man, paying our infinite sin debt, so that we would not have to pay it in hell for eternity (2 Corinthians 5:21). If we confess our sin and place our faith in Christ, asking for God�s forgiveness based on Christ�s sacrifice, we are saved, forgiven, cleansed, and promised an eternal home in heaven. God loved us so much that He provided the means for our salvation, but if we reject His gift of eternal life, we will face the eternal consequences of that decision.
I wish to clear uo a misunderstanding I read earlier in the post.Someone said they believe that you just stay in the grave until Jesus returns. I have some eveidence to prove that is wrong.
A special speaker who I heard some years ago gave his testamony. he was 13 years old when a F5 tornado hit Flint
Michigan in the 1950's. It killed him,he was not saved. he remembers leaving his body.he looked around and started to go into the ground. he told us about his trip downwards. It got very hot and people were screaming.At the door to Hell he heard a voice say he does not belong here.Then he started to go back up and entered his body.:peace:
Does this help with any confusion as to what happens if Jesus is not in your life and you die.
"Everybody quoting a looooong list of scriptures, and nobody is explaining how they connect together with the topic in discussion, nor is anyone explaining what the scriputres mean as they relate to Romans chapter 6...uhh."
As long as there are people with substantial doctrinal error (denying hell, for instance) you will find that they are unable to stay on topic. There approach to interpretation is to disregard plain passages and try to amass a larger number of passages that say something contrary. They treat it like an election: whoever has the MOST VERSES wins.
There are certain denominations (which AdamW from his superior position of courtesy and gentleness has "hinted that I should not name), denominations which deny hell, and do not believe that the departed are conscious, or that the righteous who die are absent from the body and present with the Lord. With this erroneous mindset, they simply cannot escape the obsessive fixation with their error.
Anyone who points out their error is "attacking their denomination, and MILLONS of people," or "intolerant and a bigot." Meanwhile as they continually deny orthodox theological truth they of course see themselves as perfect gentlemen who are trying to be kind and gentle.
So, as long as there are errorists with the unwavering agenda to defend and promote their error we will find it forever difficult to focus on sound exposition and exploration of a particular passage.
Keeping putting the new topics out there, and hopefully they will be able to refocus away from their pet errors on the rest of the truth of God.
:ROFL:Flood you are a flood:ROFL:..but you're right! I have been praying and wondering if some of these guys even attend church or if they are teaching themselves, never comparing what they learn with what others are saying who have been called by God to intertper His word to some degree for our benefit, so that we will not be tossed to and fro with every WIND of doctrine until we ALL come into a oneness of fiath about the Lord Jesus Chrsit.
But this is what happens when people DO NOT STUDY, or SEACRH SCRIPTURE for themsleves and compare what the preacher adn others are saying...
Soemntime I feel like WOW what and where and who are these people listening to as their pastors, and what Bible are they reading?:excited:
However this forum does make for good Bible Study 101, and we who are studied, should have patience with those who are not. But maaaaannn, it is hard to hang in there:ROFL: .. nevertheless, I try with patience, because I have learned with the churches I work with, people who have been in the church for over 30 yrs. who still don't have a clue about God's word...
I don't know how Paul and the apostle did it, and then had nerves enough to tell us who teach, do it with patience WOW, I get headaches:ROFL:
BTW, one of the hardest denominations I have tried to teach Bible Study classes to and the correct interpretation of God word are the Pentecostals... I mean, how can you convience them that salavtion IS NOT when you speak in tougues and fall out on the floor, but salvation comes when you have faith in Jesus Christ, REPENT of your sins and receive Christ's death has paid in full for your sin debt ....No, some dont care to hear this, because of what happened on the day of Pentecost, and they strongly believe that unless you're speaking in tongues you're not saved.
It took a long time with some, but God pulled me through.:dancingp::yay:
I'm not saying David is in hell...I'm saying he's resting in the grave until the second coming. Anybody want to answer the questions with some verses or at least give a decent explanation about why the verses I gave don't apply? They contradict these beliefs that we have immortal wispy souls that fly away to heaven when we die, that there are people burning in hell right now, that sinners are tormented in hell for eternity, etc...
Ecc 12:6 Remember your Creator before the silver cord is loosed, Or the golden bowl is broken, Or the pitcher shattered at the fountain, Or the wheel broken at the well.
Ecc 12:7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.
Joh 11:26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"
2Co 5:8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
There it is from Solomon, Jesus, and Paul. "BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY WORD SHALL BE ESTABLISHED."
Mark, you are still confusing me with what you speak.
Have you taken the time out to read 2 Corinthians chapter 4-5, as well as I Corinthians chapter 15? It would make a BIG difference for you in understanding mortal and immorality.
You ask the questions and make comments that are not clear to me as to what you are speaking about.
You asked about David being in hell and pointed to Acts chapter2:verse 34, and as I sadi this has nothing to do with David but Jesus.
Maybe if you READ, and not SKIM through these chapters, YOU will be able to express and understand what it is that you are sayng. Reading of these chapter will also help you to better understand and know what Paul is speaking about in Romasn chapter 6 about the penalty of sin bringing death.There is a price to pay for sin , whether its death emotionally, death mentally, death physically, death financially, or the second death, which is eternal death in the pits of hell... Can't get around it.
