Most people today believe the Lord will honor any kind of worship as long as it is sincere and meaningful for the person doing the worshipping. People pick and choose a faith of their choice and are very tolerant and respectful for each other's beliefs without going to God's word and see if God approves of them. Most people in Christendom believe we should always respect the other person's beliefs regardless whither we believe what they believe or not. Their thinking is we are going in the same direction and as long as its popular or seems right then it's OK.
I'm going to give an in depth look from God's word and see if God truly welcomes whatever you want to believe as long as it sounds reasonable and it feels good and is popular. Their belief system includes; no one can know for sure in this life and if you have a definite convictions from God's word; it is wrong and you a trouble maker to boot. It goes with saying people who advocate this kind of thinking are either not saved or they are saved and are ignorance of God's word. The world even in biblical times branded God's people as trouble makers. They were ether stoned to death, put in jail, fed to the lions and were hated by the people. The only difference today thank goodness, at least in this country they only make suggestion that a believer is a trouble maker and narrow minded. A spiritual believer will count it joy then they come across those who are guilty of things they judge God's people of. Then they will on the other hand say, not to judge, we don't judge you! No wonder the Lord said, Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
The Lord has made it clear, there is only one faith and not the faith of your choice as most practice.
It's says in Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
We should ask ourselves, is God wrong or is what is so popular to believe wrong?
Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.Is believing what we want the right way or is God's way narrow and has no room for believing what we want?
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
God says His way is narrow and straight, but can we know for sure what is right and have all of God's truth on religion, both His way and the way of the world?
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
God tells us wisdom does not come from man, but that which the Holy Spirit teaches by comparing spiritual things with spiritual things.
The bible is really very much alive and self explanatory if we follow God's instructions by studying to show ourselves approved by God. There is no way we can be approved if God's Holy Spirit didn't teach us God's will through His word.
I have seen so many people take two or three verses out of context and make a religion out of those verses and completely ignore the rest of God's word on the subject. God will not give us the spirit of truth and error unless we humble our hearts and minds and allow the Holy Spirit to teach us the truth of God unless we study and compare all of God's word on a subject. God also tells us, if we have the truth, the truth will set us free and indeed will be free indeed.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
We can know God's truth for God himself will witness to our spirit so we will know for sure.
1 Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
God's way is narrow, but true, and it will set you free from the philosophies and false doctrines of man and his sects and denominations.
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
A popular saying is join the church of your choice and God says there is only one body or church.
Romans 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
Romans 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
1 Corinthians 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
The many members is not referring to sects or denominations but is referring to the born again believers in Christ. He is the only one who adds members to His one Body or Church. If you have to join a church it is not the one Christ is building but is a counterfeit designed by man's carnal minds and the god of this world.
Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
If God doesn't add you to His church that is His body then you have no part with God unless you become saved. The many members are added by the Lord.
1 Peter 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
The reason God said the gates of hell will not prevail against His church because there are no unsaved in it.
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
De Benny, the bottom line is, Christ died for our sins because of his intolerance to sin.
Some seem to think Christ died for our sins because of his tolerance. That is not true. He died for our sins because he hates sin and he loves us and God demands the letting of blood to appease His heavenly court for the payment from Sin.
John 3:16 �For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
We can know all things, God said so; and we can learn His word only through His Holy Spirit. We don't learn in divinity schools but by the power of God through faith and trusting God to teach us Himself.
John 15:26 ��But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 16:13 �Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
1 John 4:6 �We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
We serve God His way and we do it in love not in tolerance.
Ephesians 4:15 �But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
If God was tolerant, He would not chastise every son He receives. So he chastises us out of love so we can grow spiritually.
Revelation 3:19 �As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Hebrews 12:6 �For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Some seem to think the reason we can do as we want and we can to a great extent in this life, have our own way because God created us with a free will, and God uses this free will to give us a choice of serving him in love and we can only do that through faith and our faith to be honored by God, has to be according to His word and His will not what we choose but what God has given us in his word.
God even tells us where faith comes from as found in Romans 10:17
Romans 10:17 �So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
When we met Christ face to face then we will have to give an account for every word and every deed done in the flesh. Does that sound like a tolerant God?
Romans 12:1 �I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 �And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Ephesians 6:7 �With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
2 Timothy 2:15 �Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
My question so people will think is this; God wants us to study so we won't be ashamed, only a intolerant God could state that.
We need to have our religion in only God's word and not in man's philosophies as found in denominations for they do not rightly divide the word of God as found in God's word.
I don't know how to make it any plainer than that.
I cook to unwind usually. I have found that I like to go places alone...I've always had my girls with me but now that they're older, I dont mind it and I actually like it. I can say it's therapeutic even.
Howdy Lady's & Gents....Well...Ima with T an River...I luv ta take photos of Nature as it is...mostly critters like my friend lil Gopher I visit at the city park...Some days...its hit the kitchen an whip up somethin that'll curl yer toes...its a messy job...but hey the end results are magnifec*....xo
Theraputic is SUCH a good word!! There's a Narional Park very close to my house and I love to go there, walk around and enjoy the sounds of nature...no hussle and bussle, just peaceful tranquility! As Thunder mentioned in another thread, I feel that's when God and have our deepest discussions and I always feel fulfilled!
BTW, you can cook for us anytime you'd like!! Hehe!
I didn't know you were a photographer too!! :) Thats awesome!! Have you been published?!?! There is a photo contest coming up if you're interested!! Here's a link: paducahphoto.com. I plan on sending in some entries. I'd love to see some of your photos!
Plus, I love to eat some of your cooking too!! Hehe!! I have a few things I can put together, but Paula Dean I am not! :)
Hey T ~ Yup ! Photogin is my main Artistic Hobby...I jus luv getin out in GOD's awesome nature an snappin shots of critters or nature that most people jus walk on by. Its so rejuvanatin....plus its alone time with the Lord... Thanxs for the link...I'll check it out an when get a lil time I'll send ya a couple of my pixs...xo
"Jesus died for our sins because of His intolerance to sin. Because he loves us and hates sin."
He might be intolerant to sin, but not to the sinner He loves.
I have a slight problem with appeasing the heavenly court, I don't like the Anselmian (?) ransom theory, I prefer the Jesus Victor approach, but this might be another issue.
"We don't learn in divinity schools." Well, I agree we do learn only through His spirit, but why is it you think His spirit would be coming when I read the bible at home, but not when I read it in divinity school?
You seem to have a different understanding of tolerance than I have. For you tolerance seems to be saying that anything and nothing was true. This is not tolerance to me, this is indifference. Going that way you could as well say it was not bad, just different culture, to kill for God or go to war for God. This is indifference, and indifference is a bad thing. In this one point I even agree with the pope in Rome ;)
Tolerance for me is to bear with the weakness and flaws of my next. He might be full of hate, he might be so mislead that he curses the Lord all day. Still, I am to bear this, to tolerate him and not smite him, for this is the Lord's job. Being intolerant would mean to me that I would show to have no love for my next who is behaving like this. And I cannot think of any part of scripture prohibiting love. Tolerance is not saying bad was good, tolerance is not saying I didn't mind. Tolerance is saying: I don't like you doing this, but I'll bear this for we are all sinners and I cannot claim to be only a bit better than you before God.
Chastising someone doesn't mean he was intolerant. God doesn't chastise us because we are bad, but because He wants us to find the way to the light. If He would really be intolerant and mean to really chastise, we wouldn't be here anymore. The whole world would have drowned in times of Noah. The bible says there is not one righteous. If God wasn't tolerant and would chastise to chastise and not to teach, we would not be alive anymore. I think this is what Rev 3,19 is saying too. Same with Hebrews 12,6.
I am not sure if there is something like a free will. I never chose to serve Him. He made me, I had no other chance. I cannot do a thing for being saved, even faith in Him is something He started in me.
Giving account before Christ has nothing to do with Him being intolerant but all with Him being not indifferent. Evil is evil and good is good, there is no doubt about that. But how He will judge us we will see only then, the only thing I know is that He will judge us rightly, so I am not afraid. If He judges me to go to hell, I deserve it and I know He will do it only because He loves me.
A word on man's philosophies: Everything that has to do with thinking is philosophy, this is why the early christians claimed the teaching of our Lord to be the only right philosophy. So when you call the philosophies of the denominations man's philosophy, take in mind that you yourself are as well just and man, and you are not the only one trying to walk your way with God. Many people in the denominations do this as well, they read the bible, they think about it, they write down what they think and try to live by what they found out (some more, some less, we all know that everyone's a sinner); and what they wrote down might be called man's philosophy. Maybe they've made some mistakes, writing things down. That is only human. But here I would quote some scripture myself, I think KJV is most popular around here (I'm not so much into disciussion of English language bibles):
Mt 7, 1-5
1�Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2�For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3�And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4�Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5�Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
I think we always have to be aware that there might be beams in our eyes. Condemning others is a dangerous thing to do, and I try very much to avoid it, as I kknow I am a sinner myself, and I do not want to be judged by this standard.
Joh 8, 1- 12:
1�Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2�And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3�And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4�They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5�Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6�This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7�So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8�And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9�And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10�When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11�She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
12�Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
What would have happened to the Pharisees if they had stoned the woman as the law demanded? Judging is the sole work of God, no one else. And how He will be doing it, we have some small ideas based on scripture, but we do not yet know, all we know is that things turn out differently as people think. Remember what kind of a Messiah the Jews were waiting for and what they got? Whole different Messiah, much greater and very different from what was expected.
So I'd say: Go to those groups that you feel in most accordance with. If you have problems with the teachings of denomination A, go to B etc, or set up your own bible study group, if you don't feel well anywhere. But do not condemn for it miht fall back to thyself.
God is tolerant, but not indifferent. He tolerates all we do for the love He has for us, but He chastises us as well for the same love He has. Still He tolerates us for if He didn't, He'd be putting us to hell right away and there'd be no way out for us. But this would go against His love for us, so He tolerates us though we are imperfect, but tells us about it and leaves us not in doubt about our imperfection.
Thank you for your efforts to explain your thoughts to me.
dg/Dennis ~ I know you luv yer trains...I bet yer pixs of trains are awesome. T posted an suggested a Link on this thread. We can enter a photo contest with our pixs...I will check this out an let ya know bout it...Keep on shootin the Trains...with a Camera that is.....:ROFL:...xo
