Thread: 1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean?
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1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean?
Posted : 7 Dec, 2009 11:23 AM
Here is another article addressing the bad English translation due to Calvinistic bias of the translators. This is also a very important article and well worth the time to read and study it.
1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean?
Posted : 27 Dec, 2009 06:16 PM
One of the most irritating internet skeptic tricks is to critique the translators.
1. You expect me to believe that ALL the hundreds and hundreds of EXPERTS in Greek got it wrong on a SIMPLE thing, and that only YOU got it right?
2. people who play "critique the translators" do so because they realize they cannot get anyone to accept their strange interpretation using the Bible, so they are forced into saying it is a conspiracy!
3. The best translations today are ALL done by TEAMS of translators, and that is the BEST way to minimize ANY bias, and yet, those who play "critique the translators, will ALMOST ALWAYS quote from a translation done by ONE PERSON!
4. The five Biblical doctrines that are nicknamed Calvinism, rest upon over a HUNDRED Scriptures, so I will give you your two verses and you are STILL confronted with over a hundred verses that point out that GOD is the one who saves.
1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean?
Posted : 28 Dec, 2009 07:38 AM
I believe God saves....I just don't believe He forces salvation:goofball:. And don't start telling me that Calvinists don't "re-translate", because there's just a few on here that LOVE to do it...only the verses that "support" their view are immune to re-translation and misinterpretation. Point out some verses that say God desires all men to be saved, and they get re-translated to death. "No, 'all' actually means just 'some'". "The 8th definition in Strong's concordance says that "world" means just a few people...I skipped over the 5th definition though...that one doesn't count because it doesn't support my view". I'm sorry, but if I can be wrong and misinterpret scripture involuntarily, then so can Calvinists. We're all human. The difference is, they won't admit its a possibility...because they're special. God picked them. They deserve salvation. They are unquestioning, and I believe that is dangerous in a world so full of biblical error.
1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean?
Posted : 28 Dec, 2009 12:40 PM
You love that word "force"dont you Mark?I have explained dozens of times to you that its not force at all,but merely an awakening.Remember when the scales fell from pauls eyes?I think the lord couldnt have given a more perfect analogy for his regenerate work than this.
1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean?
Posted : 28 Dec, 2009 01:10 PM
DontHitThatMark
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1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean?
Posted : 28 Dec, 2009 07:38 AM
Mark:
I believe God saves....I just don't believe He forces salvation.
James replies:
God does not ever force anyone, because there is no need to.
Because of the Fall, ALL human beings are born completely spiritually dead, with a will that is enslaved to sin.
God, takes the person he chose before the world was made, and the Holy Spirit enters that person and they are given a new NATURE. This person now NATURALLY desires to repent and trust in Jesus. So, no force is ever needed. The Holy Spirit makes a spiritually dead person come to life.
Mark continues:
And don't start telling me that Calvinists don't "re-translate", because there's just a few on here that LOVE to do it...only the verses that "support" their view are immune to re-translation and misinterpretation.
James replies:
I am guessing here, but the rule of faith is a rule of interpretation that says that the unclear verses are interpreted in light of the clear. Many Christians refuse to use this rule of interpretation. For instance, there are about three verses used to say that a Christian can lose their salvation. The problem is that IF you demand that a Christian can lose their salvation, then what do you do with the other 65 that clearly say you can't?
Mark continues:
Point out some verses that say God desires all men to be saved, and they get re-translated to death. "No, 'all' actually means just 'some'".
James replies:
The word "all" hardly ever means "everyone who ever lived", but in the case of reading Paul's letters, we have to admit that these letters were written to Christians. So, God does desire that all of his elect be saved. We have ten verses that say this, and half of them are directly from Jesus.
Mark continues:
"The 8th definition in Strong's concordance says that "world" means just a few people...I skipped over the 5th definition though...that one doesn't count because it doesn't support my view". I'm sorry, but if I can be wrong and misinterpret scripture involuntarily, then so can Calvinists. We're all human.
James replies:
I agree. We can all misinterpret Scripture, and thank God our salvation does not depend on having a perfect understanding of everything in God's Word.
On the "world" verses, I would like to say that this was a totally new concept for the people who lived in Jesus' Time. You and I accept that God saves people from all over the planet, and that is perfectly normal for you and I. However, in Jesus time God only saved people in ONE geographical area, and that was near the Temple, in order to give the sacrifices. For the FIRST TIME IN HISTORY, God was now going to save people from ALL OVER THE WORLD, not just Jerusalem. This concept had to be repeatedly TAUGHT, and that is what the "world" verses are teaching. It was a totally new concept that had to be taught.
Mark continues:
The difference is, they won't admit its a possibility...because they're special. God picked them. They deserve salvation. They are unquestioning, and I believe that is dangerous in a world so full of biblical error.
James replies:
If you have repented and are trusting in Christ alone, then the Bible says you are saved. This is the most incredible blessing anyone can ever receive. Since faith itself is a gift from God,
(Eph.2:8,9) then yes God does decide whom He will save, and that DOES make a Christian special, although, that word does even come close to saying it. The Bible says that NO ONE deserves salvation and it is ONLY by the mercy of God that anyone is saved. Romans 9 even says that God chose because of HIS choice, not because of anything anyone would do in their life. Mark, there ARE Christians who just found out that God is sovereign in salvation, and they have seen the lists of Scriptures that show the five points, and they run around bashing other Christians over the head with them. Shame on them! They need to grow up. There is a LOT more to the Word of God than just those five points that the followers of James Arminius rejected.
I agree with you, that you and I live in a world where so many people and organizations are lying about God, and what His Word says. That is one reason that I think that we need to study church history. We have two thousand years of Christians who read the same Bible we have, and studied the same verses we do. We should not ignore them, but that is what typical American Christians do. Here is a an important sentence to remember: "Church history should not rule our interpretation of Scripture, but it should guide our interpretation of Scripture."
