I have a red flag feeling when I see the word "trinity".
I find it can be traced back to Tertullian's vain philosophies and deceit that Paul warns about. Who knows where Tertullian got it but the trinity is not a new doctrine , it can be seen in Babylon with Baal, Ishtar and Tammuz. Christian theology was largely organized and nurtured in the schools of Alexandria, and Alexandria was not only the meeting place of East and West, it was also the place where the decrepit theology of Egypt was revivified by contact with the speculative philosophy of Greece. The library at Alexandria burned and the first person blamed for the destruction is none other than Julius Caesar himself. In 48 BC, Caesar was pursuing Pompey into Egypt when he was suddenly cut off by an Egyptian fleet at Alexandria.
This however is what I do believe about the Godhead..
Genesis 1 God created....
Exodus 3:4 I AM
Isaiah 43 :1-2, 10-15 Redeemer, no Savior beside me.
Isaiah 46:9-11 No other God , end from beginning
Isaiah 49:16 I have inscribed you on my palms.
John 1:1-14 In the beginning was the Word and the Word....
John 8:58 Before Abraham was , I AM.
John 14:9-11 He that has seen me has seen the Father.
John 1:18 in the bosom of the Father
Colossians 2:9 ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily
1 Corinthians 8:6 For us there is ONE God, the FATHER.
Salvation is a "beginning" and not an "end", so not all doctrine needs to deal directly with salvation. For example, if we discuss angels, their roles can be considered quite different than our own, and their "salvation" was determined by a somewhat different understanding that many decided to stray from. But again, many are united under the same faith we have in Jesus Christ. Regardless, a kingdom has to be united or it will fall.
Matt 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Revelation 5:11-14: Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and then thousand times ten thousands They encircled the throne and the Living Creatures and the Elders. In a loud voice they were saying: :Worthy is the **LAMB** who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!" Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea and all that is in them, saying: "To Him who sits on the throne and to the**LAMB** be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!" The Four Living Creatures said "**AMEN**," and the Elders fell down and worshiped.
Revelation 22:8,9: John said, " fell down to **WORSHIP** at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. But he said to me, "Don't do that I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this Book. **WORSHIP GOD**!"
It is interesting to note that only Jesus and His Father were **WORSHIPED BY EVERYONE IN HEAVEN** and the holy spirit is not even mentioned. And why would everyone in heaven be worshiping the **LAMB JESUS** when it is a terrible sin to worship anyone but **GOD**!! Jesus is worshiped 12 other times in the New Testament and the holy spirit is not even worshiped one time??
Hebrews 1:1-4,6: In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many tomes and in various ways, but in these last days He has spoken to us b His Son. Whom He appointed heir of all things, and through Whom He made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the **EXACT**representation of His being, and **SUSTAINING ALL THINGS BY HIS POWERFUL WORD**! After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. Se He became as much superior to the angels as the name He has inherited is superior to theirs... God says, ""LET ALL GOD'S ANGELS **WORSHIP HIM**!"
I use the word "salvation" because this is a Christian Forum and that's what people understand. I use the term loosely because "salvation" can easily be a self serving motive. Do we need to be saved? Absolutely! But salvation is a byproduct of a healthy relationship with God, not an end in itself.
It just as much a sin to worship anyone or anything but God in the OT as it is in the NT. David was never worshiped and if he was it was a terrible sin in the OT!!
Exodus 20:1-5,16: God spoke all theses things: I am the Lord your God.. you shall have no other gods before Me! You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or In the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing the children of sin.... You shall not give False Witness l{Like Chuckles}
Chuckk takes the bait and quotes the Shema Duet 6:5 to defend his anti-trinity heresy.
Chuckk completely missed my argument about monotheism and the concept of explicity that he uses fallaciously to deny what he doesn’t want to believe in but never mind that, not surprising.
The monotheism taught in the Shema doesn’t disprove the Trinity, like Chuckk thinks. No one who teaches the trinity rejects monotheism or believes in polytheism.
Sorry Chuckk the Shema actually favors the monotheism of trinity doctrine. All trinitarians embrace monotheism.
But let’s help Chuckk understand the Shema.
First of all, let’s look at the inspired words of Holy Spirit in the Shema.
The word for "one" in Deut. 6:4 is "echad”. It is sometimes used for describing a **composite unity** such as one cluster of grapes.
Seems even the Shema hints to more than one person in the monotheistic Godhead
You can play with "echad" all you want. But you are being intellectually dishonest. You posted that NO WHERE DOES THE BIBLE EXPLICITLY TEACH MONOTHEISM. I gave you two verses. Okay for some reason you want to reject Deut 6:4, but you dishonesty ignore the other verse I gave you: Isaiah 45:5
"I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me,"
Isaiah 9:6--7: For unto us a **CHILD** is born, to us a **SON** is given, and the government will be on His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor ,**MIGHTY GOD**! and **PRINCE OF PEACE**. Of the greatness of His government **THERE WILL BE NO END**. He will reign on David's throne and over His Kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness **FROM THAT TIME ON AND ****FOREVER****.
John 1:1-3,18: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Go, and the **WORD WAS GOD**. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that as been made...No one has ever seen God, but the One and only Son, who is **HIMSELF GOD** and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made Him known!
John 20:27-29: Jesus said to the doubting Thomas, "Put your finger here in My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe!" Thomas said to Him, My Lord and **MY GOD**!" Then Jesus told
him, Because you have seen Me, you have believed, blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed!" {And so since Chuckles does not believe he is not blessed by Jesus!!}
Hebrews 1:6,8: When God brings His firstborn into the world He says, "Let all God's angels **WORSHIP HIM**.... About the Son He says, "Your throne, **O GOD**, will last for ever and ever, a scepter of justice will be the scepter of **YOUR KINGDOM**!"
Titus 2:13,14: We wait for the **BLESSED HOPE**--the glorious appearing of our **GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR**, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify a people that are **HIS VERY OWN**, eager to do what is good!!
Philippians2:5-10: In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus. Who being in very nature God, did not consider Equality with God something to be used to His own advantage; rather He made Himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance like a man, he humbled Himself by becoming obedient to death--even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted Him to the **HIGHEST PLACE** and gave Him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus **EVERY KNEE SHOULD BOW**, in heaven and on earth!!
I don't know that in context, Deut 6:4 would suggest monotheism. I think the keyword here is "one" and understanding what that means.
Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Deut 6:4-5 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
"One" can most definitely mean a unified one.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
In Deut 6:4-5, in Hebrew "God" is called "Elohim", which is plural. (Reference Strong's H430 - elohiym)
Isaiah 45:5 also uses Elohim. (Strong's H430- elohiym)
Just a note as well, both times it's combined with Yĕhovah.
Last thing. "One" can definitely mean "unified" in Hebrew. A good example of this is...
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
