Thread: Is it biblical to expose and name false teachers?
Admin
Is it biblical to expose and name false teachers?
Posted : 27 May, 2011 10:50 AM
I have been through many years of spiritual abuse and was delivered out of it by the might hand of the Lord, Himself. I was a "sheeple" and my experience is this "The church raised me, but never grew me up." I was thick into the "word of faith" teachings and rebuked as a "judger and non-loyal" to God's anointed for questioning any authority and what they taught.
Long story short, God brought me out of this church matrix by way of His inner voice inside of me and the long hours of study, AFTER praying for discernment and wisdom on things I felt a check about in my spirit. He said "My sheep hear my voice and they know Me." It's true and we must listen to him over any pastor or teacher, regardless of how much we love and adore them.
This is long and I could put in all in my own words, but this says everything I have written in the past. (wish I would have kept a copy) Sorry it is long, but a worthy read in light of the conversations in the forums and the end times we are in.
Cited from "Jesus is Savior"~
Is It Right:
To Judge, To Expose Error, & To Name Names?
By Pastor E.L. Bynum
Many today believe that it is wrong to expose error and to name names. Liberals have always seemed to believe this, but in recent times it has been widely espoused by evangelicals and Charismatics. Now we are seeing the same fatal error being declared by those who profess to be Bible believing fundamentalists. Those who are faithful in exposing error according to the Bible are now being widely denounced, and are accused of being unloving and unkind. In this tract we intend to present the teaching of the Bible on this vital subject.
I. It Is Right To Practice Biblical Judgment
One of the most misused verses in the Bible is, "Judge not, that ye be not judged." (Matthew 7:1). Every Scripture verse should be read in its context, if we are to properly understand the true meaning. In vs.2-5 of this same chapter it is evident that v.1 is referring to hypocritical judgment. A brother who has a beam in his own eye should not be judging the brother who may have a mote in his eye. The lesson is plain, you cannot judge another for his sin if you are guilty of the same sin.
Those who cling to "Judge not, that ye be not judged," to condemn those who expose error should read the entire chapter. Jesus said, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing..." (v.15). How can we know false prophets unless we judge them by the Word of God? If we know the false prophets, how can we fail to warn the sheep of these "ravening wolves?" All through the Bible we find proof that they should be identified and exposed.
"Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit" (vs.16,17). Did the Lord mean that we could not judge the tree (person), by the fruit of their life and doctrine? Certainly not, for you cannot know without judging. All judgment should be on the basis of Bible teaching, not according to whims or prejudices.
"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." (John 7:24). Here our Lord commands that we are to "judge righteous judgment," which is judgment based upon the Word of God. If judgment is made upon any other basis, other than the Word of God, it is a violation of Matt. 7:1. Webster's Dictionary says that a judge is "one who declares the law." The faithful Christian must discern of judge on the basis of God's inspired law, the Bible.
A fornicator is described in 1st Corinthians 5:1-13. Paul "judged" (v.3) the man even though he was absent, and he told the Church at Corinth that they were to "judge" (v.12) those that were within. The Greek word for "judge" is the same here as in Matthew 7:1. Paul did not violate "judge not, that ye be not judged," in judging the man, nor in instructing the Church to judge also. All of this judgment was according to the Word of God.
A person who is able to discern between good and evil, has at least one of the major marks of spiritual maturity. "But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." (Hebrews 5:14). W.E. vine says of the meaning of discern, "a distinguishing, a clear discrimination, discerning, judging; is translated 'discerning' in 1st Corinthians 12:10 of discerning spirits, judging by evidence whether they are evil or of God." Strong also agrees that it means to judge.
Those who are unwilling or incapable of discerning or judging between good and evil are in this manner revealing either their disobedience or their immaturity.
II. It Is Right To Expose False Teachers
False teachers are free to spread their poisonous doctrines today because there is a conspiracy of silence among many Bible believers. Wolves in sheep's clothing are thus enabled to ravage the flock, thereby destroying many.
John the Baptist called the Pharisees and Sadducees (the religious leaders of his day) "a generation of vipers" (snakes) (Matthew 3:7). Today, he would be accused of being unloving, unkind, and unchristian.
Jesus said to the religious Pharisees, "O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh" (Matthew 12:34). To many evangelicals and some fundamentalists, this would be unacceptable language today, but it is biblical language and it came from the mouth of the Son of God.
Standing face to face with these false teachers, Jesus Christ the son of God, called them "hypocrites," "blind guides," "blind," "whited sepulchres," "serpents," and "ye generation of vipers" (Matthew 23:23-34). Yet, we are told today that we are to fellowship with men whose doctrines are just as unscriptural as those of the Pharisees. Some who say they are Bible believing Christians insist on working with Roman Catholics and other assorted heretics. Yet, according to many, we are not supposed to rebuke them for their compromise.
Near the beginning of His ministry, "Jesus went up to Jerusalem, and found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise" (John 2:13-16). Our Saviour is presented today as one who was meek, lowly, kind, and loving, even to false teachers, but this is entirely false. When dealing with false teachers and prophets, His words were sharp and His actions plain.
Near the end of His public ministry, Christ found it necessary to cleanse the temple once again. The exposure of false doctrines and practices is a never ending job. At that time He said, "Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves" (Mark 11:17). Is it any different today? The thieves come into the house of God, and rob God's people of the Bible and peddle their perverted Bibles instead. At the same time this den of thieves rob the people off the doctrine of separation and the doctrine of sanctification. Then you can hardly tell God's people from the people of the world. In all honesty, should not these thieves (false teachers) be exposed?
In our day these false teachers have come into the churches with their books, literature, movies, psychology, and seminars, and have turned the Father's house into a den of thieves. It is time that men of God stand up and expose their errors for all to see.
The Bible Admonishes Us To Expose Error
We are to TRY them. "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits, whether they be of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world" (1st John 4:1). All doctrine and teachers are to be tried according to the Word of God. "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them" (Isaiah 8:20). Every message, messenger, and method is to be judged according to the Word of God. The church at Ephesus was commended because they had "tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast fund them liars" (Rev. 2:2). The church at Pergamos was rebuked because they tolerated those that held "the doctrine of Balaam," and "the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate" (Revelation 2:14,15). It is never right to tolerate false teachers, but they are to be tried by the Word of God, and exposed. Of course those who want to disobey the Word of God will seek by every means to avoid this teaching.
We are to MARK them and AVOID them. "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them" (Romans 16:17). Those whose conduct and teaching contradicts the Word of God are to be marked and to be avoided. This requires discernment and judgment in the light of the Bible. The ecumenicalists, new evangelicals, and compromising fundamentalists will resist any effort to obey this Scripture. They cannot be marked and avoided, unless they are judged according to the Word of God.
We are to REBUKE them. "Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith" (Titus 1:13). This was written to Titus, because there were those going from house to house and subverting whole houses with false doctrine (v.10-16). Oral Roberts, Robert Schuller, Jimmy Swaggart, Pat Robertson, and others are subverting whole houses with their false doctrine today. Are we to sit silently by, while they do this, without rebuking and admonishing people to avoid their teaching? No, the faithful servant of the Lord is to be "Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers" (Titus 1:9).
We are to have NO FELLOWSHIP with them. "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them" (Ephesians 5:11). Reprove means to censure, condemn, find fault, rebuke, and to refute. How can we obey this Scripture unless we try them by the Word of God?
We are to WITHDRAW from them. "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which ye received of us" (2nd Thessalonians 3:6). We are to withdraw from those whose doctrine and conduct does not conform to the Word of God. The context clearly shows that obedience to sound doctrine is what Paul has in mind, for he says, "if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet, count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother" (2nd Thessalonians 3:14-15). Paul admonished Timothy to "withdraw thyself" from those who "consent not to wholesome words...and to the doctrine which is according to godliness" (1st Timothy 6:3-5).
We are to TURN AWAY from them. Concerning the last days, he says that some will have "a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away" for such people are "never able to come to the knowledge of the truth" (2nd Timothy 3:5,7). How can we turn away from them if we do not identify them, and this requires that their message be compared to the Word of God. It is the business of the true preacher to: "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine" (2nd Timothy 4:2). This is usually an unpopular and thankless task but it is the duty of the God-called man.
We are NOT to RECEIVE them into our house. "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds" (2nd John 10,11). There is no doubt about who John is speaking about, it is "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ..." (v.9). By radio, TV, and literature, false prophets are brought into the homes of many Christians today. Brethren, this ought not to be!
We are to REJECT HERETICS. "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject" (Titus 3:10). We should reject those who deny redemption by the blood of Christ. There are many who deny this or some other doctrine of the Word of God. If they will not respond to being admonished, then they are to be rejected.
We are to look out for those who preach another gospel. Paul warned about those who preached "another Jesus...another spirit...or another gospel" (2nd Corinthians 11:4). How can we know them unless we judge their Jesus, their spirit, and their gospel by the Word of God? Paul called such preachers "false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ" (2nd Corinthians 11:13). He explains in v.14-15 that these preachers are the ministers of Satan. The God-called man must be just as faithful today in exposing the ministers of Satan.
Paul warned the Galatians about those who "pervert the gospel of Christ." He also said, "if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." (See Galatians 1:6-9). Multitudes today are preaching a perverted gospel. Those who teach salvation by baptism, or by works, are teaching a perverted gospel. Those who preach a salvation that you can lose, are preaching a perverted gospel. The Charismatics, Catholics, many evangelicals, and many fundamentalists (?) are preaching a perverted gospel. Yet, we are supposed to cooperate with them in evangelism and Christian work, according to many today. If we fail to expose these false prophets, then we have betrayed Christ and His gospel.
We are to SEPARATE from them. "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you" (2nd Corinthians 6:17). This makes it plain. God's people are to come out of apostasy and religious error. How can any Bible believer remain in the National Council or World Council of Churches? How can they remain in the Southern Baptist Convention, or any of the other apostate organizations? How can they remain among compromising evangelicals and wishy-washy fundamentalists?
III. It is Right To Name Names
Many mistakenly believe that it is wrong to expose error and to name the guilty teachers; but they are wrong according to the Bible.
Paul named Peter publicly. Peter was guilty of unscriptural practice. "But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed...But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?" (Galatians 2:11-14). The whole issue revolved around salvation by the law or by grace. When the integrity and purity of the gospel is at stake, then we have no choice when it comes to the matter of exposing error and naming names.
Paul named Demas for loving the world. "For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world" (2nd Timothy 4:10). Those who forsake the cause of Christ for worldly living and pleasures should be name and exposed.
Paul named Hymenaeus and Alexander. Paul told Timothy to "war a good warfare; Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaesus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme" (1st Timothy 1:18-20). God's true servants should war a good warfare, and name those who have departed from the faith that was once delivered to the saints. Paul is not here discussing the faith of salvation but the faith as a system of doctrine. These men had made shipwreck of it and Paul exposed them and called their names.
Paul named Hymenaeus and Philetus. He told Timothy to "study" that he might be able to "rightly" divide "the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some" (2nd Timothy 2:15-18). False doctrine overthrows the faith of some, so those who are proclaiming it must be exposed.
Paul named Alexander the coppersmith. "Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works: Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words" (2nd Timothy 4:14-15). It is clear that this is not a personality problem, but a doctrinal problem. Alexander had withstood the words and doctrine of Paul. He was an enemy to the truth. Godly pastors face the same problem every day. They stand and proclaim the truth, then their members go home and hear this truth disputed by radio and TV preachers. Often times these false prophets are sending their publications into the homes of members of true churches. Then the man of God is suppose to keep his mouth shut, according to many. Only a coward will be silent when the truth of the Bible is under attack.
John name Diotrephes. "I wrote unto the church; but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, recieveth us not" (III John 9). He related how this man had prated against him "with malicious words" (v.10). He further said, "Beloved, follow not that which is evil but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God, but he that doeth evil hath not seen God" (v.11). It is not wrong to name those whose doctrine and practice is contrary to the Word of God.
In fact, the whole Bible abounds in examples of false prophets being named and exposed. All this modern day talk about love, used as an excuse for not exposing error, is not really biblical love but is really sloppy agape.
Moses called the name of Balaam. (See Numbers 22-25). Peter exposed "the way of Balaam... who loved the wages of unrighteousness" (2nd Peter 2:15). Balaam was a prophet that was in the work for money, just like some of the TV false prophets today. They beg for money and live like kings, while multitudes of innocent people send them their hard earned money. They are always building colleges, hospitals, TV networks satellites, and amusement parks that have a water slide for Jesus. And then we are suppose to keep our mouth shut about these religious charlatans. How can we be silent and be true to God?
Jude exposed "the error of Balaam" (Jude 11). John exposed "the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication" (Revelations 2:14). This gets right to the heart of the matter, concerning the doctrine of separation. Balaam never did curse Israel even though he wanted the wages that he was offered to do so. The men of Israel committed "whoredom with the daughters of Moab...and bowed down to their gods" (Numbers 25:1,2). Why did they do this? Because Balaam taught Balac how to break down the barrier of separation between the Moabites and the Israelites. We know this to be so because it is plainly stated in Revelation 2:14 and Numbers 31:16. This sin resulted in 24,000 men of Israel dying under the judgment of God.
False teachers are breaking down the barrier of separation between God's people and false religion. There is too little preaching and teaching on the doctrine of separation. Balaam breached the doctrine of personal separation by causing the men of Israel to commit fornication with the Moabite women. He breached the doctrine of ecclesiastical separation by causing the men of Israel to bow down to Baal. This brought a curse upon Israel. Until we get back to teaching the truth about personal and ecclesiastical separation, we can expect the continued widespread havoc that we have today.
It seems to be believed by many that some people are too high and mighty to be named or exposed. Men in high places, pastors of large churches, and those with great radio of TV audiences, are supposedly above criticism. Whatever they may do or say, no matter how contrary to the Bible it may be, is supposedly all right. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Nathan identified the man. There was a man in a very high place who was a secret adulterer. Surely this man who held the highest office in the land could not be rebuked by a lowly unpopular prophet. Nathan went right into the presence of David, revealed the sin in a parable form, and then told the enraged David, "Thou art the man" (2nd Samuel 12:7).
Hanani name king Jehoshaphat. In many ways Jehoshaphat was a good king, but he mistakenly forgot to practice religious separation. He caused his son to marry wicked king Ahab's daughter. (See 2nd Chronicles 18:1; 21:1-6). He made an alliance with Ahab and went to the battle of Ramoth-gilead with him (2nd Chronicles 18). Hanani "said to King Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the Lord?" (2nd Chronicles 19:2). We have a question for those who insist on working with Charismatics, Catholics, and members of the National Council of Churches, "Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the Lord?"
Yes, it is right to expose error and to name those who are in error. It is right to "earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 3). It was once delivered and it has never been recalled for revision. We had better beware of "false teacher...who privily shall bring in damnable heresies" (2nd Peter 2:1). Faithful messengers will warn the sheep of these heretics, and identify them by name. It is not enough to broadly hint of their identity, for the young lambs will not understand and will be destroyed by the wolves.
The heresy teachers will tell you that Jesus was rich, and that He wants you rich too. But lets look at some facts:
1) Jesus was born into poverty. His mother had to offer a turtle dove as a sin offering because she could not afford a lamb.
2) Jesus was a carpenter/stone mason. If Jesus had been a land owner he would have been a farmer. In Bible days, carpenters were peasants. It was the lowliest of trades. It would be like shining shoes at a bus station today.
Most of the prosperity teaching that the word of faith group teach on is taken out of the Old Testament. That's because the New Testament does not promise material wealth and prosperity. The New Testament promises trials and hardships that will refine your faith.
In 2nd Corinthians 8 and 9, Paul is taking up an offering for the poor saints. He does not rebuke them for being poor. Jesus said never promised tons of money, earthly riches and material possessions. He did promise that He would meet our needs. Our needs are clothing, food and water, not $300, 000 mansions, gold, jets and sports cars gotten from tithes, which is not for the New Testament. And we are not to "sell Jesus" to gain wealth.
In the Old Covenant God promised Israel material wealth and riches if they would obey and serve Him. It did not work. God then dissolved that Old Covenant based on works and law, and started a New Covenant based on faith and grace.
The New Testament is spiritual. It is full of spiritual promises and blessings to the church. Now we have absolute forgiveness, right standing, peace, joy and fellowship with God. We are now promised eternal life! It is a better covenant established on better promises.
You have the anointing of God on your life, joey. As I read many of your posts, the Spirit of God bears witness. Keep the Truth-Telling posts coming! You're an Awesome Sister! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ BTW---Are you and Saved twins? You sound just alike!! LOL
Ok JS, I'm sure you forgot to do so, but if your gosl is to expose hersey and false teachings, then should you not also include an explanation as to what it is Jan is taliking about, and what is being said that make Jan's statement hersey?
So since you say it doesn't take long for the Spiirt to let you know this quote from Jan is speaking is hersey... just what is the Holy Spirit telling you she is talking about here in this quotes for those who need to know the difference in the truth and the lie. Also, what is the real truth of what she is speaking... So we will know what part of her statement is true or is not truth, or if all that she is saying is hersey, half truth or all a lie.
What is the Spirit of the Lord telling you that makes this hersey.What is she talking about and what does God say is the truth. You can't correct or expose a lie without the truth being also pointed out.
I also think you should share the difference between a false teacher, a person being in error of the word, and a heretic. Becasue if a person speaks heresy this makes them a heretic, but if a person speaks in error does that also make him/her a heretic or a false teacher?
So it would be nice for you to explain the differenec between the three, of course, if there is a difference and how the differences are pointed out in scripture, if there are any passages to point to... Thanks
BTW, JS, if you should respond sometimes today, and I'm not responding back today, I must go into preparation today, I will be overseeing services on Sunday morning at a Methodist church so I must spend time preparaing today for tomorrow... will get back on late Sunday or Monday...
Thank you, Chevy. I love truth at all costs because it sets us free and draws us into a deeper communion with the Lord.
ET, if you cannot see the error in this statement, being a teacher, then I will leave it between you and your quiet time with God and hope that you will repent of your support of teachings right out of the pit of hell that you support.
I won't use all my energy to teach you when I discern the mockery and arrogance in you, trying to trip me up, as you have done to others here. Boomerangs are not fun, beware.
"His spirit must not only descend into hell, but into the lowest hell�The Father turned Him over, not only to the agony and death of Calvary, but to the satanic torturers of His pure spirit as part of the just dessert of the sin of all the race. As long as Christ was "the essence of sin" he was at Satan�s mercy in that place of torment�While Christ identified with sin, Satan and the hosts of hell ruled over Him as over any lost sinner. During that seemingly endless age in the nether abyss of death, Satan did with Him as he would, and all hell was "in carnival."
Jesus did EVERYTHING on the Cross and nothing more had to be done to complete the atonement for all mankind. He did not have to go to hell to complete the atonement, It was finished on the cross.
�When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, IT IS FINISHED: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.� - (John 19:30)
When He took on all of our sins, He felt forsaken because of the weight of sin, the mockery of all the Jewish zealots and throngs of people around Him.. but God never forsook Him or sent Him to hell. If he had to go to hell, then His work on the cross was not good enough for God.
Psalm 22:24~ �For he has not despised or disdained
the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him, but has listened to his cry for help.�
�And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?� ~Matthew~ 15:34
All of Psalm 22 shows the real perspective of the events on Golgotha that Jesus was not abandoned and God heard His cry.
His crucifiers admitted that He trusted in God, His Father~
"He trusts in God. Let God deliver him now, if he wants him; for he said, 'I am the Son of God." Matthew 27:33
Jesus prophecy declares the answer he got when he cried out to His Father. He knew and said that He could call on ten thousand angels before this, do you think that changed, or that Father God was not attentive to His Son?
�Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?� Matthew 26:53
"Save me from the mouth of a lion: And, from the horns of the high places Thou hast answered me!" Psalm 22:21
He declared He would be in paradise "that day." So He did not spend three days and nights in hell. This is what the Captain of the army, Lord of Hosts did do!
He went to a place called Abraham's bosom: Luke 16:22 ~And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham�s bosom.
�When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.�
9:In saying, �He ascended,� what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth?a 10:He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things." Ephesians 4:8-9
He descended to Abraham's bosom and preached the mystery of the gospel, To who? The saints for sure and maybe the condemned souls and fallen angels? (but not to offer them a second chance) He then raptured them to the earth, and then to heaven: (I love visualizing this one!)
Matthew 27:51-54 "At that moment the curtain in the sanctuary of the Temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, rocks split apart, the tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many." Some were allowed to go into the city, then went to heaven. (another rapture) When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son of God!"
"And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." (Abraham's bosom since Jesus was three days and nights preaching and then hung around the earth for 40 days before the rapture to heaven) Luke 23:42-43
Pretty exciting and better than any movie I've seen! Now, the details of how it all happened could vary, but I do know that Jesus did NOT suffer in hell or get tormented by demons.
And a heretic or false teacher (same thing to me) Teaches false doctrine and or follows it.
Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick [141 hairetikos] after thefirst and second admonition reject;
Strong's: 141 hairetikos {hahee-ret-ee-kos'}
from the same as 140; TDNT - 1:184,27; adj
AV - that is a heretic 1; 1
1) fitted or able to take or choose a thing
2) schismatic, factious, a follower of a false doctrine
3) heretic
Someone who makes a mistake and is correctable, is not a heretic. I used to believe and teach a little of the word of faith stuff, but renounced it and apologized to people for it. I was not deceived as much as afraid to confront wrong teaching of high and mighty men in the church. God cured me of it.
Titus 1:13~ "This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith."
Again, rebuking another often involves naming them, shaming and embarrassing the other one when exposing his error, often offending him in the process. And yes, it is certainly Biblical to do so.
JS states: I won't use all my energy to teach you when I discern the mockery and arrogance in you, trying to trip me up, as you have done to others here. Boomerangs are not fun, beware.
ElLa States:JS, Firstly, I have teachers who are capable of theching me, and with seminary and all, I'm really not seeking out anymore teachers... thanks. But please make yourself clear in your above statement and prove your proof of your charge that you discern the morckry and arrogance in me, and that I'm trying to trip you up as I have done others on this site? What spiritually would be my point? Sounds like spiritual paranoia to me... And as many who are not sure of what they themselves speak will call condifence as being arrogrance, just because a person is bold enough to come out and speak against another's comments about a matter and can prove I can prove what I speak when they cannot, so I understand this one and where you're and the others are coming from. And if being called arrogrance is my title then I will indeed wear it proudly and with honor, at least I know I am doing my work and in good company with the other men and women of God called into ministry, after all Jesus forewarned us these things would eb when spreading His word to those who are lost, and to those who think they know. They called Jesus and Paul arrogrant and many other names... and I've been called worse by many people in higher places than this CDFF forum, and so have many other teachers, and ministers and pastors who knew what they spoke was a truth of God, and so far PRAISE GOD! we are still standing...
Plus, whatever I have posted in response to others can be backed up with scripture, in fact I have posted a few responses from paraphrased Bibles and others still have come up against what I have posted, so that let me know where their spiritual understanding and insight was coming from. I have no need to trip up you or anyone else up, either you are grounded and rooted and know God and the Word for yourself and have spiritual insight in what your'e opposing or you don't. Either you're learning and don't mind being questioned and challenged in order to grow to mariturity or you don't. So Please allow the Holy Spirit to assist you in explaining just what you mean by this statement so that I will fully understand along with your proof. Thank you. BTW, surely, the Spirit of the Lord is not the one allowing you such lost of enegry, so if you're strong and filled with His power as you say, then why would you not waste His energy to spend time correcting error with proper answers? ..... God bless you...
AS regarding Jan's statement, there is NOT ONE THING in any of my posts that states that I think rebuking false teaching or heresy is wrong... so I wonder who much discerning you're doing is your own? Surely, the Holy Spirit hasn't led you to believe such...you misunderstood my post in your egaerness to attempt to try and correct me. I too, believe in contending for the faith and it is Biblcial, but you had better be in line with what God speaks, and there still must be evidence of such false teachings are indeed going on. There is much as on this site nd all one must do is review the posts an from whom such is coming.and I am surprised you of all people combating false teachings have not taken a strong, becsue God dodes not call for us to be passive Christin, He calls for us to be BOLD in His word and stand strong against such and explained the truth of God's word to those who are in error. I'm very surprised you have not confronted such...
As for Jan's statement, I was hoping and had thought maybe the Holy Spirit would reveal to you the things that I sought, and you would discerned what Jan was speaking. In all of Jan's drama, from what I interpret and gather from her quote is that she is expressing the sin burden Jesus had to carry on His shoulders for the whole world, as we read in 2 Corinthians 5:21, �...God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God� . and as it were Jesus had the victory of defeating satan on the cross by His blood and death, but satan thought he had won the victory when Jesus died.
When I look at what Jan is saying I don't find heresy, when also consdiering the scriptures she is putting and applying in her own words to express herself in this statement:Jan said: "His spirit must not only descend into hell, but into the lowest hell�The Father turned Him over, not only to the agony and death of Calvary, but to the satanic torturers of His pure spirit as part of the just dessert of the sin of all the race. As long as Christ was "the essence of sin" he was at Satan�s mercy in that place of torment�While Christ identified with sin, Satan and the hosts of hell ruled over Him as over any lost sinner. During that seemingly endless age in the nether abyss of death, Satan did with Him as he would, and all hell was "in carnival."
In this same statement, I hear Jan expressing the joy of the enemies who put Christ to death on the cross, and the joy satan and his demons must have felt when Jesus died on the cross. In that, those who curcified Jesus and satan thought they/he had won the victory and that Jesus was at the mercy of those being used by satan who crurcified Him on the cross. But instead, they and satan found out that Jesus' death was only another defeat and especially when Jesus died, and and was buried in the grave, and when He showed Himself and preached to the spirits who were in prison as pointed out in I Peter 3:18-22, �For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit, by whom He went and preached to the spirits in prision, who were sometime disobedient, when God waited in the days of Noah, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.�
And again, satan and those who crucified Him were slapped in the face once again when Jesus got up from the grave in resurrection power..
I ask you, did not Jesus Himself feel forsaken and abandoned by His Father? Yes, He felt that God had turned His back on Him and He did feel alone, thats why He cried out in agony asking the question Father, why have You forsaken Me?� But it was not that God had so much as turn His back on His back on His Son, as we understand turning ones back, but God turned his back on the sins of the world that His Son died for and was silent, and this made Jesus feel so alone during the time of His death, because God was silent.
Aand not to speak about the greif God Himself must have felt to see His Only Son making such a suffering sacrifice for the sins of the world... And did not those who crucified Him mock and rejoice when He died? This is also found in Jan's statement when she says �and all hell was in a carnival�. Jesus felt rejected by His Father., and this also gave satan reason to rejoice, as it did those who stood mocking Him during His death who were Hi enemies.
I really don't find that what Jan has stated as heresy, just drama... as she is known for, and is apart of who she is in nature.... Sure, there have been times when she has mis-stated scriptures and mis-interpreted what God is revealing in His word, but to flat right out call this statement as being heresy, and to judge her by this one statement as anything less than a woman of God who in some things regarding scripture one who makes errors is a sin within its self.. because just as you and I do and others do, make mistakes in what God has revealed � is to charge Janr falsely with being a false teacher or a heretic based on this one statement, again, that within its self is something God calls sin for you or anyone else to bear false witness against another person and to wrongly judge without cause or proof.
And as I've said having facts and evidence to prove such is to know for sure of what a person is speaking teaching and preaching, based on what the word of God teaches, and the Doctrine of Christ, and not your own personal opinions and prejudices against a person, just because you don't care for them, this is not righteously judging.
Surely, the Holy Spirit should have informed you of this error you have made in wrongly judging and charging Jan and me with being a false teacher or a heretic, or to even slightly assert such toward me in your refences is to call me a false teacher and YOU to think which is your own peronal opinion, my need for the Holy Spirit, which if indeed you were operating under His control and anointed power, you would know within whom the Holy Spirit is operating, since Jesus has said His sheep know His voice. Again, surely, the empowerment of Holy Spirit within you, would give cause for you to discern these things, minus your attitude of being puffed as if you got something or more power than anyone else has. This is Unbelieveable... woman of God!
Therefore, I find that Jan's statement is filled with more drama as in trying to be spiritually deep, than heresy because she was only expressing her dramatic thoughts of the scriptures as in her own manner..So how can you judge this statement as proof of heresy or her being a false teacher?
1.There is a difference between a false teacher, a heretic, and a person who is scripturally in error for whatever reason. A person in error is spiritually unlearned in the proper things of God's word, and has not been taught how to go about studying God's word or the person may be under an overseerer who does not him/her self understand God's word with wisdom or knowledge and proper understanding, and does not know how to wait on the Holy Spirit to reveal the word to him/her. As was the case with Apollas in error of proper doctrine teachings. About God and Jesus, in Acts Chapters 18-19. But I don't think Paul considered him as a false teachers,
2. A False teachers is one who takes the doctrine of Christ and God's teachings and willfully twist and turn the meanings of the teachings and fit fashions them for their own purposes and are know to bring confusion regarding the true faith in Jesus Christ. As is pointed out throughout the gospels as is in Galatians, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, and Jude.
3.Heresy is a complete departure frm the gospel and doctrine of Jesus and christianity and the true faith of salvation through Christ, as found in the Christian Science of Minds, and the Inclusion, and other false teachings. The so-called teachers of the Gospel of Inclusoin teachings that state there is no hell and that everybody is already saved. This is not God's teachings, and it denies the doctirne of Christ and beiefs of what God has said in His word..
Heresy rejects Bible teaching almost totally, and use their own books and Bibles to explain away scriptures and the doctrine of Christ. As those in Pauls' writings who taught that there was no ressurrection. and many other things opposing the truth.
As not to make this any longer I would like to ask by whose, and/or what standard of guidelines do you use to meaure whether or not a person is in error of proper doctrinal teachings, and how do you measrue who is a false teacher or a true heretic? Are you speanding time studying such in the Bible to determine the differences as well as stuyding the different false regigions out there to know what they are teachign and to know the difference according to Gpod's Word of Truth?
It very spirutally imoprtant that you have need to know that You just can't go popping off calling a person a false teacher or a heretic just because he/she may express the scripture differnetly than you do, and you have no proof or evidence of their teachings outside of what you read about them on the internet, or hear their words once or twice without any consistance.
I know you are a sincere woman of God, but I also think you have need to spend more time studying how to detect and give proper answers and responses to those who do not undersatnd God's word and are new believers in the faith to strengthen and increase their faith in the Word and in the Lord. And be fully prepared to give correct answers, rebukes and spiritual insight to crrect the false teachers, heretics who has strayed and are leading others away from the faith.
Good place for training is on this site... In the name of Jesus as the Lord lives today...
�Then John said to Jesus, �Master we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he is does not follow with us (not one of us). But Jesus said to him, DO NOT forbid him, for he who is NOT AGAINST US IS FOR US.� Luke chapter 9
"Some indeed preach Christ even fromenvy and strife, andsome also from good wil. The former preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my chain, but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth Christ is preached, and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice. Philippian chpater 1
Hope you're having a God blessed holiday weekend and will have the same for the week...
How ironic is it that Joey gives us a wonderful post about judging someone's fruit and Ella shows how fruitless she is?!
I am not doubting Ella's education or knowledge of the Word, however what good can a scoffer do for our Lord? How can someone do good for His Kingdom when they are so blatantly mean to His children?
ET With all due respect, I understand what you are speaking, I can only speak for myself, If I were doing all the things in sin, Yes I would allow myself to be sat down! But first I would not be caught in that type of sin. I am a servant of the Lord! Thanks for the question, In His Love
