Thread: more quotes of a christian church Jew hating father
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more quotes of a christian church Jew hating father
Posted : 16 May, 2011 06:20 PM
Accordingly, it must and dare not be considered a trifling matter but a most serious one to seek counsel against this and to save our souls from the Jews, that is, from the devil and from eternal death. My advice, as I said earlier, is:
First, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able toss sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in some hellfire...
Second, that all their books-- their prayer books, their Talmudic writings, also the entire Bible-- be taken from them, not leaving them one leaf, and that these be preserved for those who may be converted...
Third, that they be forbidden on pain of death to praise God, to give thanks, to pray, and to teach publicly among us and in our country...
Fourth, that they be forbidden to utter the name of God within our hearing. For we cannot with a good conscience listen to this or tolerate it...
-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)
Here's a second quote:
My essay, I hope, will furnish a Christian (who in any case has no desire to become a Jew) with enough material not only to defend himself against the blind, venomous Jews, but also to become the foe of the Jews' malice, lying, and cursing, and to understand not only that their belief is false but that they are surely possessed by all devils. May Christ, our dear Lord, convert them mercifully and preserve us steadfastly and immovably in the knowledge of him, which is eternal life. Amen.
-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)
What do you think? Was Luther as bad as these quotes sound? Was it merely the air he breathed or did have a certain disgust for the Jewish people?
more quotes of a christian church Jew hating father
Posted : 17 May, 2011 09:39 PM
Sirjames Regardles of what you believe your replacement theory is not Biblical
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
more quotes of a christian church Jew hating father
Posted : 17 May, 2011 09:40 PM
Sirjames Regardles of what you believe your replacement theory is not Biblical
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
more quotes of a christian church Jew hating father
Posted : 18 May, 2011 06:35 AM
Maybe I'm missing the point, 2. My thought is, if everyone else was jumping off the cliff, would you? If God tells you, specificaly you, don't jump off the cliff, would you? Just because these people are doing terrible things, should you preach hate? War itself is tricky enough of a subject, but this isn't Patton that martin sounds like, its more along the lines of a radical muslim. I understand being torqued at the people in charge. I got dems and reps making all these decisions for me and mine, fighting over rich people stuff, and enslaving the populants with credit cards (endentured servitude)and mortgages(share cropping). But I don't preach hate for all politicians, to burn t heir houses down. I understand "revolution". Martin was preaching "kick a man while he's down". I'm a fighter: you don't do that. Do what us Irish did when we got here: breed out the problem. If everyone is Irish, no one will care if you complain whatever the problem, you have options. So yes, the sentiment at the time was anti-jewish, I don't doubt that. But is it really a reason? As a religious leader, aren't you suppossed to be above that?
more quotes of a christian church Jew hating father
Posted : 18 May, 2011 08:23 AM
"Martin was preaching "kick a man while he's down".
--------------
It is evident you do not know the historical context, the Jews weren't down they were rich in a country not theirs by exploiting others, specifically the poor.
And for the umph-teen time I Do Not endorse or support Luthers position on this, however I understand it.
more quotes of a christian church Jew hating father
Posted : 18 May, 2011 09:05 AM
I read every bit of what you all have stated, on both threads. I am merely drawing on the information that has been written by both sides of this point and was verified by both sides. In his quotes, martin states that jews should have their schools burned, not be allowed to work for a living, houses razed and destroyed, and deported. Wow. That's pretty low. I guess that from my objective point of view, God wants us to love others, regardless of what they do. But if I was subjective, and I felt that martin was a "good guy", I can see why he's using God to further political reforms, ie, petitioning royalty to not grant them protection. If I thought he was a "bad guy", id say he's just a jew hater, and probably is responsible for killing Kennedy, too. But I don't choose sides. I go by what God calls on us to do. Give unto Ceasar what is Cesars. So I "get" that jews were being jerk-faces. But that's no excuse to preach hate.
more quotes of a christian church Jew hating father
Posted : 18 May, 2011 05:48 PM
Lifesed said:
"Sirjames Regardles of what you believe your replacement theory is not Biblical."
James replies:
It is not replacement, because there is only ONE people of God.
It is EXPANSION.
I used to be a Dispensationalist. The central tenant of Dispensationalism is to believe that Israel, and the church are two different groups.
As I see it, this distinction does not hold up. In what follows I simply call attention to several passages that destroy this fundamental distinction of dispensationalism:
--Eph.2:11-3:6 Whenever I read the book of Ephesians I have a sort of mantra that runs through my mind. It goes like this, "If Ephesians 1:1-2:10 is true, Arminianism is false; if Ephesisans 2:11-3:6 is true, dispensationalism is false." I'll not get into the debate with Arminianism right now, but I will briefly consider what this passage has to say about the distinction that, according to Ryrie, exists between Israel and the Church.
Simply put, if Paul is saying anything, he is saying that no such distinction exists. On the contrary, he affirms their unity. Those who were formerly excluded from citizenship in Israel, etc. (2:11-12) are now "brought near" (2:13) by the blood of Christ who made of the two (Jew and Gentile) "one new man" (2:15). As a result of Christ's work we are "fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household" (2:19). Paul goes on to discuss his insight into the mystery of Christ, which is "that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus" (3:6). Contrast Paul's statements with this one by John Walvoord, "The Church composed of Jew and Gentile is considered a separate program of God which does not advance nor fulfill any of the promises given to Israel" (Walvoord, p.523).
Paul almost couldn't be any clearer, there is no distinction between Israel and the church; they are the one people of God who share in the promise of God (3:6) which is administered through the covenants (2:12) [for an exposition of the promise and the covenants see O.P. Robertson].
--Ro.9:6-18: I said I wouldn't get into the debate with Arminianism although this passage relates to both dispensationalism and Arminianism. Suffice it to say that this passage teaches that membership in the true Israel is not a matter of physical descent, but one of God's election. Paul develops this further within this same chapter and points out that this includes the Gentiles (vv.24-26). In other words, Israel (the people of God) consists of elect Jews and elect Gentiles. Once again we see that there is no distinction between Israel and the church.
--Ro.11:11-24 There is one olive tree composed of both Jews and Gentiles, i.e., there is one united people of God; not two.
--Jo.10:14-16 Jesus has sheep that come from two "pens" (Jews and Gentiles) and who together form one flock.
--Ga.3:15-29 Gentile believers are children of promise, the seed of Abraham, and spiritually speaking there is no distinction between them (vv.26-29, verse 28 is often cited in the feminist debate; but it's primary teaching does not relate to that issue, rather, it affirms the spiritual unity of the people of God).
--Ga.6:16 The phrase "the Israel of God," contextually seems best understood to refer to believers in general. In more technical language, this expression is epexegetical to the expression "those who will walk by this rule." This understanding is consistent with Paul's discussion in chapter 3 of all believers being the seed of Abraham and with his discussion in Ro.9 that being part of Israel is not a matter of physical descent but of God's election.
Although I originally planned to say much more on this point, what I have said should be enough to indicate why I came to dispute Ryrie's contention that Israel and the church are distinct peoples of God. As I see it, Scripture simply does not support such a notion; it affirms the opposite.
Before moving on let me add as a sort of an all too brief footnote that even though I see Scripture affirming a continuity between the Old Testament church and the New Testament church, I also see a development, hence the distinction between OT and NT. Even Louis Berkhof speaks of the old dispensation and the new dispensation. So to say that there is one people of God is not to say that salvation history has not progressed.
more quotes of a christian church Jew hating father
Posted : 19 May, 2011 08:22 AM
Dg, I would not be as base as to attack you or your personal history. I don't even know you, and even if I did, it would take A LOT more than a debate on a message board to "get my goat". I work security at a few of the local bars at night. I have drunk people behaving insanely, and I manage to keep a cool head through it with a smile on my face and God at my back. My comment was geared towards martin, and his leaving of the church. I went to public school, unlike my siblings. So I am familiar with not just the christian version of history, but the worlds as well. Its amazing how much these two conflict at times! But long story short, no sir, I did not intend for you to take my comment as a paeronal attack. In the future, it would help to know that I don't attack individuals personaly. Its counter-productive to discussions, and derails the purpose of revealing the Truth in Gods Word.
