Mk 4:9 And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
4:10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
Lk 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Lk 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
If you were on a deserted island not ever being taught any doctrine whatsoever and a Bible washes up on shore ....be honest.... by reading the verses you provided would you say "oh, regeneration must precede faith" ?
However if you read the verses PJ posted, one can easily see with no prior training that hearing and believeing precede salvation.
Now do not hyper-literalize my words, for I fully agree with Scripture in that no one comes Jesus without the Holy Spirit drawing them. However you must note the Bible uses the word "draw" and not "regenerate". In other words the Bible doesn't say 'no one comes to Jesus without first being regenerated'.
To draw is like leading a horse with a lead rope and halter. The Holy Spirit literally leads you to the truth. Now you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink, but you can make sure he is thirsty when he gets there, as God often does.
John 5:25 ~ "I tell you the truth, a time is coming and now has come when THE DEAD WILL HEAR the voice of the Son of God and THOSE THAT HEAR WILL LIVE."
1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ HAS BEEN born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.
1 John 5:1
A spiritually dead man cannot have faith in God. If you have faith, you HAVE BEEN born again.
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life
John 6:47
Whoever believes has eternal life already
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and AS MANY AS WERE APPOINTED TO ETERNAL LIFE BELIEVED
Acts 13:48
I have brought up John 3:1-8 and will continue to because just as a baby is passive in birth, so is dead man in the new birth. That is the analogy here. Man can't give life to himself, the Spirit goes where it will.
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them
Ephesians 2:10
Believers are created in Christ. Just as the universe was passive in it's creation relying only on God, so it the believer. If any man is in Christ, he is a new creature. He's not a new creature because he believes. He believes because he's a new creature.
4But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ� by grace you have been saved
Ephesians 2:4-5
It doesn't say God saw our faith and made us alive for a dead man can't respond in faith.
And to show again that man is passive in this,
21For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life TO WHOM HE WILL
John 5:21
This is in agreement with how Jesus speaks of the Spirit giving life in John 3:1-8. Doesn't say He gives life because He sees faith.
Man incapable
44NO ONE CAN COME TO ME UNLESS THE FATHER WHO SENT ME DRAWS HIM. And I will raise him up on the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets, And they will all be taught by God. Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me
John 6:44-45
60 When many of his disciples heard it, they said, "THIS IS A HARD SAYING; who can listen to it?" 61But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, "DO YOU TAKE OFFENSE AT THIS? 62Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 63 IT IS THE SPIRIT THAT GIVES LIFE; THE FLESH IS NO HELP AT ALL. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64But there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) 65And he said, "This is why I told you that NO ONE CAN COME to me UNLES IT IS GRANTED HIM BY THE FATHER."
John 6:60-65
The disciples took offense to the teaching that they couldn't be a part of their saving faith.
And finally
13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, but of God.
twosparrows - but you can make sure he is thirsty when he gets there, as God often does.
Ryan - God leads there and then He event makes men want Him? but then they drink themselves? So men are made to want Him?
twosparrows - John 5:25 ~ "I tell you the truth, a time is coming and now has come when THE DEAD WILL HEAR the voice of the Son of God and THOSE THAT HEAR WILL LIVE."
Ryan - I have not said anything to contradict this verse. God makes dead men hear. Everyone that hears will live. You say that many hear and some choose life. There you give says all that hear will have life.
Jer 25:4 And the LORD hath sent unto you all his servants the prophets, rising early and sending them; but ye have not hearkened, nor inclined your ear to hear.
Lk 8:8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Lk 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
The responsibility is upon man to hear, and it is obvious to those that believe, the ability to hear is in mankind and has been thru out the word of God
PJ - The responsibility is upon man to hear, and it is obvious to those that believe, THE ABILITY TO HEAR IS IN MANKIND and has been thru out the word of God
Ryan - I will address the bold. If it's in all mankind, why is it that everyone who hears will live?
"Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
John 5:25
The bible teaches that those not of God DO NOT hear Him.
Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God."
John 8:47
The bible teaches that a specific group hear Him.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
John 10:27
Even more interesting is the bible teaching that God will actually shut the ears of some. Remember how you said mankind can hear?
7What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, 8as it is written,
Just bouncing...:bouncy:...through...Good morning Yall...I see the word Elect again...ALL that believe are Elect...Calvin doesnt teach this...but Jesus through Paul does...
1 Timothy 4:9~11 (KJV)
9~ This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
10~ For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who [ is ] the Saviour of [ all ] men, [ specially of those that believe. ]
If a Jew has not trusted in Christ alone for his/her salvation then he/she is not saved. By the way, it wasn't according to me. I simply posted the verse.
