Author	Thread: Logic vs. Spirit
Admin	Logic vs. Spirit Posted : 1 Apr, 2011 06:41 AM Did you hear what the man, said about the man that trys to communicate spiritual things being logical, or employing logic in understanding spiritual matters. Logic is like a log in the eye you see, or do you really see with the log in the eyes. Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Post Reply
View Profile History	Logic vs. Spirit Posted : 1 Apr, 2011 05:11 PM LSU, What does the verse say? SAY! Not what you think it means, What does it say? Does it say what kind of understanding? Or are you adding adjectives to the text? Sheesh. As to the applicablity of the verse to logic:: Some understand intuitively, some emotionaly, some by spritual revelation, and those such as your self understand through the employment of logic. Spiritual truth is not understood by employing logic, it is spiritually revealed in a relationship with God through Jesus by the Holy Spirit. If you want to walk closer to God you are going to have to make your logic ride in the back seat. It seems Calvinists have traded the Spirit of God for the spirit of logic.. The Spirit of God produces life. The spirit of logic produces pride and arguments. Post Reply
View Profile History	Logic vs. Spirit Posted : 1 Apr, 2011 05:21 PM James, Someday God is going to pry your white knuckled fingers off of logic, for you it will be earth shattering to have nothing to lean on except God himself...."though He slay me, yet I will trust in Him" Post Reply
View Profile History	Logic vs. Spirit Posted : 1 Apr, 2011 05:32 PM James and Ryan Fellas you both believe in the Bible....right? How would you describe the book of Job? Here is how I would describe it : 4 guys trying to logically understand why these things were happening to Job, trying to logically discern the what and why of what God was doing. Well how did they do? What did God have to say about their logic? Have you ever read the end of the book? Do you think Jobs friends would of made good Calvinists?...I do. I think even Job started out as a Calvinist at the beginning of the book, however by the end of the book he is cured. Post Reply
View Profile History	Logic vs. Spirit Posted : 1 Apr, 2011 05:45 PM Twosparrows said: Someday God is going to pry your white knuckled fingers off of logic, for you it will be earth shattering to have nothing to lean on except God himself...."though He slay me, yet I will trust in Him" James replies: Shocking and nonsense! Nonsense because acting like a Christian who has read the Bible and sees where God has TOLD him to seek wisdom, and accepts this, that somehow he will no longer trust God because of obeying him in that area, IS NONSENSE. Shocking because ONCE AGAIN twosparrows, you actually quote from a book and your interpretation of a verse in it, makes you do the opposite of the main point of the entire book!!! The book of proverbs is a collection of short sayings on how to be wise. Now, since you think your private religious hunches are the Holy Spirit, I have no idea if you agree that the book of Proverbs is a collection of short sayings on how to be wise. For all I know, the ahem "holy spirit" could have told you that Proverbs is a secret prophecy for those who are "led by the spirit". But, using the rules of grammar, and the culture and historical evidence, Proverbs IS a collection of short sayings on how to be wise. Now, I truly believe that any Christian who is reading the Bible and thinking they don't need the church, or anyone to tell them how to interpret the Bible IS leaning on their own understanding and just CALLING it "the Holy Spirit". I understand the temptation. You open the Bible and your ego swells up like one of the life rafts where you pull a cord and it inflates immediately. Then, magically the Holy Spirit puts in your mind the correct interpretation of every word you read. This is SO easy because you not only get to confuse your own ego with the Holy Spirit, but it involves ZERO studying! And you don't have to be under a pastor at the local church, or even attend Bible study with a church. It is all about YOU. Now, I have real problems with that approach. First, before even leaving the book of proverbs I read that THREE times it says, "There is wisdom in many counselors". Now, if I take YOUR interpretation of "Lean not on your own understanding", then that contradicts Proverbs saying "there is wisdom in many counselors", and it says that THREE TIMES. Secondly, I read in the Bible that We Christians NEED the body of Christ, which is other Christians, and we have the "many counselors" because God has raised up great men of genius throughout the last two thousand years to expound on the Christian faith. And thirdly, I see that the Bible says that God has said the Church will have pastors and teachers, and elders, etc, and that we SHOULD obey them, and respect and listen to them. If I am to just open the Bible and whatever interpretation I come up with, uh sorry the "Holy Spirit" tells me, then WHY would God say that there is wisdom in many counselors, and tell me that we Christians NEED the body of Christ, and that I am SUPPOSED to be a member of the local church under the authority of a pastor and elders, for teaching, etc? I know you have read some Spurgeon, so I wil leave you with a quote from him: In order to be able to expound the Scriptures, and as an aid to your pulpit studies, you will need to be familiar with the commentators: a glorious army, let me tell you, whose acquaintance will be your delight and profit. Of course, you are not such wiseacres as to think or say that you can expound Scripture without assistance from the works of divines and learned men who have laboured before you in the field of exposition. If you are of that opinion, pray remain so, for you are not worth the trouble of conversion, and like a little coterie who think with you, would resent the attempt as an insult to your infallibility. It seems odd, that certain men who talk so much of what the Holy Spirit reveals to themselves, should think so little of what he has revealed to others. � C.H. Spurgeon, Commenting and Commentaries, 1890. IN Christ, James Post Reply
View Profile History	Logic vs. Spirit Posted : 1 Apr, 2011 06:06 PM James, A typical Calvinist rebuttal; build a straw man and knock it down. Do you really think I don't read commentary? Do you think I actuality don't study? Do you think I have not taken Bible studies? Been discipled? Sat under a pastor? Attend a church? Had religious training? If you really believe what you posted, then I can only assume you are clueless to how the Holy Spirit works. Post Reply
View Profile History	Logic vs. Spirit Posted : 1 Apr, 2011 06:48 PM Two you are starting to see, what is really going on. James you have really exposed yourself in your last couple of posts, now i have known that all along, but I am glad others are getting to see it first hand. Post Reply
View Profile History	Logic vs. Spirit Posted : 1 Apr, 2011 06:48 PM Two you are starting to see, what is really going on. James you have really exposed yourself in your last couple of posts, now i have known that all along, but I am glad others are getting to see it first hand. Post Reply
View Profile History	Logic vs. Spirit Posted : 1 Apr, 2011 07:16 PM james, please be careful how you talk about the Holy Spirit. Giving ego or man credit for the Holy Ghost's work is on the verge of blasphemy. Don't let your pride or need to be right cause you to commit a sin you will NEVER be forgiven for. Post Reply
View Profile History	Logic vs. Spirit Posted : 2 Apr, 2011 06:12 AM twosparrows - What does the verse say? SAY! Not what you think it means, What does it say? Does it say what kind of understanding? Or are you adding adjectives to the text? Ryan - Ok, then let's try a different route. Why do you think scripture would say to not lean on our own understanding? twosparrows - Spiritual truth is not understood by employing logic, it is spiritually revealed in a relationship with God through Jesus by the Holy Spirit. Ryan - Please show how spiritual truth is illogical twosparrows - It seems Calvinists have traded the Spirit of God for the spirit of logic Ryan - No I believe spiritual truth and logic can exist simultaneously and you have yet to show how they can't. twosparrows - The spirit of logic produces pride and arguments. Ryan - Please show me how logic does this twosparrows - Here is how I would describe it : 4 guys trying to logically understand why these things were happening to Job, trying to logically discern the what and why of what God was doing. Ryan - I see guys leaning on their own understanding. twosparrows - What did God have to say about their logic? Ryan - What does God say about logic itself? I still haven't gotten an answer from anyone. twosparrows - I think even Job started out as a Calvinist at the beginning of the book, however by the end of the book he is cured. Ryan - So then your belief is that someone who uses logic is a Calvinist? Post Reply
View Profile History	Logic vs. Spirit Posted : 4 Apr, 2011 08:13 AM Ryan - So then your belief is that someone who uses logic is a Calvinist? You didnt ask me but ima answer anyway...NO ! The Truth is someone that Professes Calvins Doctrine and uses Logic is applying a Scientific approach to a Spiritual reality...Thats my two bits...hava Blessed day...xo Post Reply

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