There are a number of Scriptures that teach us that the scope of Christ's death was limited to the elect. Here are a few of them:
Just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for MANY (Matthew 20:28).
The "many" for whom Christ died are the elect of God, just as Isaiah had said long before,
By his knowledge my righteous servant will justify MANY, and he will bear their iniquities. (Isaiah 53:11)
The Lord Jesus made it clear that His death was for His people when He spoke of the Shepherd and the sheep:
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep....just as the Father knows me and I know the Father---and I lay down my life for THE SHEEP (John 10:11, 15).
The good Shepherd lays down His life in behalf of the sheep. Are all men the sheep of Christ? Certainly not, for most men do not know Christ, and Christ says that His sheep know Him (John 10:14). Further, Jesus specifically told the Jews who did not believe in Him, "but you do not believe because you are not my sheep" (John 10:26). Note that in contrast with the idea that we believe and therefore make ourselves Christ's sheep, Jesus says that they do not believe because they are not His sheep! Whether one is of Christ's sheep is the Father's decision (John 6:37, 8:47), not the sheep's!
...just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for US as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God....husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up FOR HER to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless (Ephesians 5:2, 25-27).
Christ gave Himself in behalf of His Church, His Body, and that for the purpose of cleansing her and making her holy. If this was His intention for the Church, why would He give Himself for those who are not of the Church? Would He not wish to make these "others" holy as well? Yet, if Christ died for all men, there are many, many who will remain impure for all eternity. Was Christ's death insufficient to cleanse them? Certainly not. Did He have a different goal in mind in dying for them? [I am not here denying that the death of Christ had effects for all men, indeed, for all of creation. I believe that His death is indeed part of the "summing up of all things" in Christ. But, we are speaking here solely with the salvific effect of the substitutionary atonement of Christ. One might say that Christ's death has an effect upon those for whom it was not intended as an atoning sacrifice.] No, His sacrificial death in behalf of His Church results in her purification, and this is what He intended for all for whom He died.
He who did not spare His own Son, but gave him up for us all---how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring a charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died---more than that, who was raised to life---is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us (Romans 8:32-34).
The Father gave the Son in our place. Who is the "our" of this passage? The text says that it is "those whom God has chosen," that is, the elect of God. Again, the intercessory work of Christ at the right hand of the Father is presented in perfect harmony with the death of Christ---those for whom Christ died are those for whom He intercedes. And, as this passage shows, if Christ intercedes for someone, who can possibly bring a charge against that person and hope to see them condemned? So we see what we have seen before: Christ dies in someone's place, He intercedes for them, and they are infallibly saved. Christ's work is complete and perfect. He is the powerful Savior, and He never fails to accomplish His purpose.
Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for HIS FRIENDS (John 15:13).
Are all the friends of Christ? Do all own His name? Do all bow before Him and accept Him as Lord? Do all do His commandments (John 15:14)? Then not all are His friends.
While we wait for the blessed hope---the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself FOR US to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good (Titus 2:13-14).
Both the substitutionary element of the cross (gave himself for us) and the purpose thereof (to redeem us...to purify) are forcefully presented to Titus. If it was the purpose of Christ to redeem and purify those for whom He died, can this possibly not take place?
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save HIS PEOPLE from their sins (Matthew 1:21).
Christ will save His people from their sins Well, did He? Did He save His people, or did He not?
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me (Galatians 2:20).
This is the common confession of every true believer in Christ. We died with Him, our Substitute, the one who loved us and gave Himself in our behalf.
We have seen, then, that the Word teaches that Christ died for many, for His sheep, for the Church, for the elect of God, for His friends, for a people zealous for good works, for His people, for each and every Christian.
Additional reasons Jesus could not have died for everyone who ever lived.
# God punishes people in hell, which would be unjust if their sins were atoned for
twosparrows replies, incorrect James, God honors their decision to pay the price themselves.
James shared:
# Mark 9:43-44 If one were to say, �their sins are atoned for, but that atonement is not applied because of unbelief,� he fails to realize that unbelief is likewise a sin.
twosparows replies, John 3:18 ~ " Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the God's one and only Son" Guess your logic disagrees with Scripture, imagine that.
James shared:
# Heb 3:12 [�The Father imposed His wrath due unto, and the Son underwent punishment for either: 1) All the sins of all men; 2) All the sins of some men; or 3) Some of the sins of all men. In which case it may be said: 1) If the last be true all men have some sins to answer for, and so none are saved; 2) That if the second be true, then Christ, in their stead suffered for all the sins of the elect in the whole world, and this is the truth; 3) But if the first is the case, why are not all men free from the punishment due unto their sins? You answer, Because of unbelief. I ask, Is this unbelief a sin, or is it not? If it be, then Christ suffered the punishment due unto it, or He did not. If He did, why must that hinder them more than their other sins for which He died? If He did not, He did not die for all their sins!� �John Owen, The Death of Death in the Death of Christ] God bears eternal wrath against people, which by definition means that his wrath against them has not been propitiated [appeased]
1The 2:16; 2The 1:6-9
twospsrrows replies, there still stands a unpardonable sin : Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
James wrote - "This verse shows us that Jesus ACTUALLY PAID FOR the sins of His people AT the cross."
"His people" being only the elect, right? The blood of Jesus couldn't possibly be shed for the sins of all, to include those who will deny Him, right?
Wrong.
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the LORD THAT BOUGHT THEM, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. -2 Peter 2:1
...? I have to still wonder though how you DO share the Gospel of Christ if you don't include God's love.
James replies:
The word "gospel" means Good news!
God has sent Jesus that whosoever will repent and trust in Him, in Christ alone, is saved.
Saved from an eternity in Hell, saved from a pointless life, saved TO holiness, saved to a life with meaning and purpose.
71 said:
James wrote - "These verses are written to people who are ALREADY Christians, and it is NOT concerning sharing the gospel with non-believers."
Right. Even though we read "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners"
James replies:
And this is true, because ALL of God's people are sinners.
71 said:
and Paul said this was "worthy of all acceptation". And even though Paul wrote that "Christ died for the ungodly". And the many other Scriptures which give reference to Christ dying for the sins of the world. This can only be for the 'elect'.
James replies:
Yes, and God's elect for the first time in the history of mankind was going to be expanded to ALL OVER THE EARTH.
Every country, nation, and continent. Every class, every skin color, Every tribe and tongue!
71 said:
So I guess you leave that part out of your sharing the Gospel as well, huh? So far, you don't share God's love with a lost and dying world and you don't share the Cross or Christ dying for the ungodly sinners in a lost and dying world. What hope do you offer? When you take away God's love and Christ dying for sinners, what is there left of the Gospel of Christ to share?
James replies:
I don't include the FACT that Jesus died for people in every nation and every tribe and tongue.
I usually DO include John 3:16, because it is a not only a good verse to use, but many people who are not Christians, have heard of it.
71 said:
And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions. -Mark 10:17,21-22
Wow.. Jesus loved this sinner, who through his own choice, rejected Him. How you can say that Jesus' love is not for all, including those who reject Him, is beyond my comprehension.
James replies:
WHY, because Jesus SAID SO Immediately AFTER!! Keep reading.........
Jesus NEXT says HOW hard it is for a rich man to be saved, and the disciples are STUNNED and they say:
"who then CAN be saved?" And Jesus says, (Mark 10:27) "With men, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE......."
So much for Free will again, huh!
71 said:
Maybe God should've been more clear or descriptive when using the word "world" for those of us who believe the world includes all the inhabitants thereof. Maybe God should've just replaced "all" and "world" with 'elect'. Maybe John should've written, 'Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the elect'. Or maybe, 'For God so loved the elect, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever elect that believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the elect to condemn the elect; but that the elect through him might be saved'. Maybe Jesus should've used the word 'elect' instead of "world" in the following... 'And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the elect, but to save the elect'.
James replies:
I understand that for all of your Christian life, the word "world" in the Bible meant "everyone who ever lived".
I know it is shocking to find out that that interpretation is not correct, and that it makes a LOT of other Scripture contradict the "all" and "world" verses. But it is the case.
If you just keep reading your Bible, you will see "elect" and "appointed" and "chosen" and "election" and destined"
and "Predestined", over and over.
You want to know HOW MANY TIMES the New Testament uses the word "elect"?
If you have a concordance, look up "elect" and "election", Appointed/chosen/destined/predestined.
Add them up, you will be surprised.
71 said:
Let me ask you something James... How do you know you are truly one of the 'elect' according to your view/belief. If one were to ask you what one Scripture you can offer to confirm your salvation according to your Calvinistic belief, which would it be?
James replies:
You do not ask yourself "Am I elect". I mean you can if you wish, but what you should ask yourself is,
"Am I truly born again?" And the tests basically boil down to what/who am I trusting in for salvation?
And is there holiness in my life?
It is the same test for every Christian, and this has NOTHING to do with the five points.
If someone were to ask me what one Scripture that confirms my salvation, I would say Romans 5:1.
Why are you being so hard headed? There is no scripture negatively stating Jesus did not die for all sin for all men. The view I presented you agrees with all Scripture and still you refuse to believe. So much so that you would rather agree with a doctrine that does Not agree with all Scripture!
Why?
Have you been indoctrinated in Calvinism since you were a young child?
James, the issue of sin is a problem for man, not God, God has taken care of this issue out of Love for man, all men, if they believe. Try as you may to say different, you are in disagreement with Scripture and don't fully comprehend the multi facets of the Cross.
Sin is Paid for in Full for all men. Therefore it they stand redeemed or condemned by their belief. The unpardonable sin is to refuse to believe the Holy Spirit, in essence calling Him a liar, ie : blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, that is why men go to hell, that and their are some that love death.
Your doctrine has God choosing them unconditionally before they were created to go to hell, sorry that does not agree with the revealed nature of God in Scripture.
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the LORD THAT BOUGHT THEM, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. -2 Peter 2:1
Peter is not teaching who Jesus died for, he is Highlighting the responsibility of false teachers.
Again, if you demand that the phrase, "the Lord that bought them" means Jesus died for everyone who ever lived, then you make the bible contradict itself when it says that Jesus died for "the sheep", "His people", "the church"," his friends", etc.
Before He died, Jesus prayed for those the Father had given Him and not the world.
John17:9,20
"I pray for them, I do NOT pray for the world, but for those you have given me............."
James, since you are no longer addressing my posts, I'll jump in on Saved and yours if you don't mind.
James shared to Saved:
".... Jesus died for everyone who ever lived, then you make the bible contradict itself when it says that Jesus died for "the sheep", "His people", "the church"," his friends", etc."
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James, you of all people should know that is Not how you interpret Scripture!
The truth that Jesus died for the sheep, His people,the church, His friends, does NOT EXCLUDE THE TRUTH that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, in fact the Bible says as much!
James, basically you need a Scripture that says Jesus did NOT die for the sins of the whole world, but your are not going to find any, why? Cause there are none! That oils cause the Bible to contradict it self in the same way your doctrine does.
James you seem a little dull on this point of interpretation, perhaps this will help: If I were to go to China and preach that Jesus died for Asian people, dies that EXCLUDE the rest of the world?...No. So just because it is said Jesus died for His sheep, you can Not on that alone conclude to EXCLUDE to whole world.
The Good News is no matter how hard the Calvanist doctrine pushes on people their false teaching on who Christ died for, the Truth is, sinner, He died for YOU:(and me)! WHOSOEVER will, may come. That means YOU! Don't doubt for one minute or ever think He didn't die for you, and if you're seeking , He's Your Answer. He Loves YOU: He shed His Blood: He hung on that cross for YOU and You can receive salvation and eternal life! You have free will: accept or reject what He offers to ALL. Accepting Christ will be the Wisest decision you ever make. HE'S AWESOME!
Some persons love the doctrine of universal atonement because they say, "It is so beautiful. It is a lovely idea that Christ should have died for all men; it commends itself," they say, "to the instincts of humanity; there is something in it full of joy and beauty. I admit there is, but beauty may be often associated with falsehood.
There is much which I might admire in the theory of universal redemption, but I will just show what the supposition necessarily involves. If Christ on His cross intended to save every man, then He intended to save those who were lost before He died. If the doctrine be true, that He died for all men, then He died for some who were in hell before He came into this world, for doubtless there were even then myriads there who had been cast away because of their sins.
Once again, if it was Christ's intention to save all men, how deplorably has He been disappointed, for we have His own testimony that there is a lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, and into that pit of woe have been cast some of the very persons who, according to the theory of universal redemption, were bought with His blood that seems to me a conception a thousand times more repulsive than any of those consequences which are said to be associated with the Calvinistic and Christian doctrine of special and particular redemption. To think that my Saviour died for men who were or are in hell, seems a supposition too horrible for me to entertain. To imagine for a moment that He was the Substitute for all the sons of men, and that God, having first punished the Substitute, afterwards punished he sinners themselves, seems to conflict with all my ideas of Divine justice. That Christ should offer an atonement and satisfaction for the sins of all men, and that afterwards some of those very men should be punished for the sins for which Christ had already atoned, appears to me to be the most monstrous iniquity that could ever have been imputed to Saturn, to Janus, to the goddess of the Thugs, or to the most diabolical heathen deities. God forbid that we should ever think thus of Jehovah, the just and wise and good!"
The numbers at the beginning of the Quotes are the year they were born, and the year they died.
All I can do as a Christian is show from Scripture why I believe Jesus died specifically for His people, and then show that Christians have believed this throughout church history.
I am going back as far as I can to show that the Early church believed that Jesus died specifically for His people.
Jerome (347-420) on Matthew 20:28: He does not say that he gave his life for all, but for many, that is, for all those who would believe. See Turretin, Vol. 2, p. 462.
Hilary of Arles (c. 401-449) commenting on 1 John 2:2: When John says that Christ died for the sins of the "whole world," what he means is that he died for the whole church. Introductory Commentary on 1 John. Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture: New Testament, Vol. XI, James, 1-2 Peter, 1-3 John, Jude (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2000), p. 177.
Chrysostom (349-407) on Hebrews 9:28. "So Christ was once offered.": By whom offered? evidently by Himself. Here he says that He is not Priest only, but Victim also, and what is sacrificed. On this account are [the words] "was offered." "Was once offered" (he says) "to bear the sins of many." Why "of many," and not "of all"? Because not all believed, For He died indeed for all, that is His part: for that death was a counterbalance against the destruction of all men. But He did not bear the sins of all men, because they were not willing. NPNF1: Vol. XIV, Epistle to the Hebrews, Homly 17.
Prosper of Aquitaine (d. 463): He is not crucified with Christ who is not a member of the body of Christ. When, therefore, our Saviour is said to be crucified for the redemption of the whole world, because of his true assumption of the human nature, yet may he be said to be crucified only for them unto whom his death was profitable. . . . Diverse from these is their lot who are reckoned amongst them of whom is is said, 'the world knew him not.'
Bede (672/673-735) commenting on 1 John 2:1: The Lord intercedes for us not by words but by his dying compassion, because he took upon himself the sins which he was unwilling to condemn his elect for. On 1 John. Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture: New Testament, Vol. XI, James, 1-2 Peter, 1-3 John, Jude (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2000), p.
Bede (672/673-735) commenting on 1 John 2:2: In his humanity Christ pleads for our sins before the Father, but in his divinity he has propitiated them for us with the Father. Furthermore, he has not done this only for those who were alive at the time of his death, but also for the whole church which is scattered over the full compass of the world, and it will be valid for everyone, from the very first among the elect until the last one who will be born at the end of time. This verse is therefore a rebuke to the Donatists, who thought that the true church was to be found only in Africa. The Lord pleads for the sins of the whole world, because the church which he has bought with his blood exists in every corner of the globe. On 1 John. Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture: New Testament, Vol. XI, James, 1-2 Peter, 1-3 John, Jude (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2000), p. 178.
Augustine (354-430): 2. But alongside of this love we ought also patiently to endure the hatred of the world. For it must of necessity hate those whom it perceives recoiling from that which is loved by itself. But the Lord supplies us with special consolation from His own case, when, after saying, "These things I command you, that ye love one another," He added, "If the world hate you, know that it hated me before [it hated] you." Why then should the member exalt itself above the head? Thou refusest to be in the body if thou art unwilling to endure the hatred of the world along with the Head. "If ye were of the world," He says, "the world would love its own." He says this, of course, of the whole Church, which, by itself, He frequently also calls by the name of the world: as when it is said, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself." And this also: "The Son of man came not to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved." And John says in his epistle: "We have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also [for those] of the whole world." The whole world then is the Church, and yet the whole world hateth the Church. The world therefore hateth the world, the hostile that which is reconciled, the condemned that which is saved, the polluted that which is cleansed.
3. But that world which God is in Christ reconciling unto Himself, which is saved by Christ, and has all its sins freely pardoned by Christ, has been chosen out of the world that is hostile, condemned, and defiled. For out of that mass, which has all perished in Adam, are formed the vessels of mercy, whereof that world of reconciliation is composed, that is hated by the world which belongeth to the vessels of wrath that are formed out of the same mass and fitted to destruction. Finally, after saying, "If ye were of the world, the world would love its own," He immediately added, "But because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." And so these men were themselves also of that world, and, that they might no longer be of it, were chosen out of it, through no merit of their own, for no good works of theirs had preceded; and not by nature, which through free-will had become totally corrupted at its source: but gratuitously, that is, of actual grace. For He who chose the world out of the world, effected for Himself, instead of finding, what He should choose: for "there is a remnant saved according to the election of grace. And if by grace," he adds, "then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace." NPNF1: Vol. VII, Tractates on John, Tractate LXXXVII, �2-3, John 15:17-19.
Chevy wrote - "The Good News is no matter how hard the Calvanist doctrine pushes on people their false teaching on who Christ died for, the Truth is, sinner, He died for YOU:(and me)! WHOSOEVER will, may come. That means YOU! Don't doubt for one minute or ever think He didn't die for you, and if you're seeking , He's Your Answer. He Loves YOU: He shed His Blood: He hung on that cross for YOU and You can receive salvation and eternal life! You have free will: accept or reject what He offers to ALL. Accepting Christ will be the Wisest decision you ever make. HE'S AWESOME!"
