I do about "Jacobus Arminius" and his followers 5 points. The reason no one makes a fuss about it is cause they are not following him, because probably over 90% of non-Calvinist believers don't even know who he is. Absolutely no disrespect intended ; but Calvinists are viewing this from a environment of Calvinism where 99.9% of the believers have been taught about Calvinism vs Ariminian theology. I suspect the truth is if you surveyed all those who are Not Calvinists and had them define their beliefs on the 5 points you would find the majority of them adhere to a mixture of both. The other thing to bring to light is most non-Calvinists do not even know the 5 points much less have them defined. Yet from the perspective of a Calvinist who subconsciously thinks it is a given that all believers have thought through the 5 points just as he/she has because they are paramount in "his/her" faith, is not seeing the picture clearly, especially when it comes to labeling all others as Ariminians or a 3 or 4 point Calvinist. I was raised Catholic and am not comparing Catholicism with Calvinism, but I do know what it is like to have to shed all the preconceived doctrines and interpretations of scriptures to be able to see clearly. I am not saying 5 point Calvinism is wrong. It is just people in the forum and on some web sites I found just parrot doctrines with no understanding. I am quick to recognize this only because past experience with the Catholic Church, then later with Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons. I am not saying Calvinism is a cult! Just that they tend to see things ONLY from the perspective of a Calvinist. I have asked sincerely for Scriptural Proof and get the same thing over and over like I am supposed to understand the meaning Calvinists have been taught since youth and have poured into their verse and automatically believe.
How does Calvinism explain the "second death" of unbelievers in Revelation?
The only way around it is to admit the "Total Depravity" doctrine takes things to the extreme. Brothers, as you well know, All scripture needs to harmonize. No one here is saying man can save himself but it seems to me you have tunnel vision when it come to this. Man Has to be 110% depraved and dead! Why? Like man could really rob glory from God by responding to The Love and Grace of God!...lol. Anyway the question still stands.. How can something 110% dead, die twice?
Well, we have you on record reading verses of Scripture that say that man is NOT ABLE to come to God, and even see the kingdom of God, and then you turn around and say those verses are not talking about ability.
Now we have you saying that fallen man is not really spiritually DEAD, even though I have presented verses showing this.
How about you answer a question for me?
God, in Genesis, and Paul and Jesus in the New Testament, say that fallen mankind is DEAD. What KIND of death do they mean???
You tell me okay?
Gen 2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Joh 3:5-7 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Eph 2:1-3 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
God Told Adam and Eve they would die that day, so tell me twosparrows, what KIND of death did God mean???
Jesus says that you cannot even ENTER the Kingdom of God unless you are born again FIRST!
I don't want to debate this, but I can give you a couple of scriptures that I believe reconciles the scriptures you are debating.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Rev 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
We will all come back for judgment, saved and unsaved. Those who were dead before through unbelief will suffer the death of the soul. Though they were dead in their trespasses, the soul lived. God will destroy that in the end.
