53 Jesus said to them, �Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.� 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
It has been proposed that we continue with our discussion on differences between Catholics and nonCatholics.
Since, I am not allowed to answer, please allow me to share a short story:
* A married couple; husband is protestant, wife is catholic.
* Wife invites the local parish priest for dinner to talk to her husband in to converting to catholicism.
* The husband listens attentively to the priest while he helps his wife make dinner.
* When the priest was done explaining everything the husband asks: "since you are a priest can you say Mass now so that I may receive communion and be converted?"
* The priest replies,"Yes my son I will say Mass and we can all receive communion together".
* The wife could hardly hold back her joy as the priest said Mass.
* Just as the priest began to take communion himself, the husband interrupted him and said : "father is it really true that the bread and wine are actually changed into the real flesh and blood of Christ?"
* The priest answered "Yes my son it is just as I told you"
* The husband asked again,"Do mean the elements are changed like symbolic or really changed into the flesh and blood of Christ?"
* The priest a little preturbed answered, " Yes, it is changed into the real body and blood of Jesus."
*Then the husband said, "Well, then it doesn't matter when I made the bread and poured the wine, I put enough arsenic in yo kill a horse"
@ Mark since you brought it up but for everyone else too. Although it is long this is my response. Nothing is quoted from other sources other than the Bible verses.
Communion vs. Passover
I have stated several times on this forum that I do not believe Communion, or the Eucharist, or whatever other name it might have, is Biblical and that it is not necessary for Christians to practice it. My argument regarding this does not come from the idea that it is based on a pagan ritual or anything like that. Although this may be a viable argument it is not really the true reason Christians should not be practicing it.
I will begin by asking that you read the following passages that refer to this event: Mt 26:17-30, Mk 14:12-26, Lk 22:7-23, 1 Cor. 11:23-27.
I believe it is important to not only consider these passages in the context in which they are written but also in the context of the culture and especially the traditional meal of Passover. If you are not familiar with this very important Jewish Feast you must research it and if possible participate as often as you can in order to be familiar with it.
The cup which Jesus is �taking� is called The Cup of Redemption. It is the third of four cups of wine that are taken during the meal. It is also the first cup taken after the breaking of the bread that follows the meal portion of the Feast. The matzo that is broken is comes from a particular piece of matzo that is taken from a pouch that contains three pieces of matzo. The matzo bread has both stripes and perforations in it. These are now understood to represent the wounds that Jesus would suffer from His beating and crucifixion.
So having broken this bread half of it would have been wrapped up and hidden for the children to look for later. This represents Jesus burial and later when it is found it represents His resurrection. Here, Jesus is explaining to the disciples what this piece of bread they have been eating every year of their life represents. And he will then do the same thing with the wine.
The Cup of Redemption is the third cup of wine in the Feast and taken after the completion of the meal. This is the cup Jesus held up to the disciples and told them that it represented His sacrifice and the shedding of His blood for the Redemption that was promised. It is at this point that Jesus is explaining to His disciples that He is the fulfillment of this Feast. HE is the Lamb and the bread and that He must drink of this cup of Redemption by shedding His blood to bring it about. This is the cup He later refers to when He talks about it in the Garden. Luk 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. And Joh 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it? Jesus is reminding Peter of what he had explained to him earlier at the Feast. He�s saying, �I told you what this is all about. Do you think you can stop what my Father has sent me to do? I have to do this!�
In the case of the passage in 1 Cor I think the topic is the behavior of the congregation when they gather for a meal also called breaking of bread. To assume that breaking bread refers to Communion is way off. It was a common term that meant having a meal. The people are coming in very hungry and eating so much that there is nothing left for the late comers. Paul is reminding them that Jesus sacrificed His life for them and that Jesus is our Bread of Life and Wine of Redemption and that we need to keep our priorities straight therefore, take a look at yourself and see if you are living a sacrificial life that is worthy of the sacrifice made for you because this kind of behavior does not line up with it. Paul is in no way advising on how the Communion service should be carried out nor is he saying that we need to confess our sins before taking communion. He�s admonishing these people for their misbehavior and for forgetting the example set by Jesus.
Therefore, there is no way that in any of these passages we can find a command, directly spoken or implied that Christians are to practice some sort of �new� sacrament. In fact it seems clear that Jesus is telling His disciples that He intends for them to continue the Passover Feast and to do so from now on with the remembrance of their Redemption through Him rather than look forward to it as the Jews had been doing since the Exodus.
I would add that I do not believe that taking Communion is a sin and that anyone doing so is not saved. I believe that if it is done while keeping in mind that we must live sacrificially as our Savior did and that we must also take up our cross and follow His example then its fine. I simply want to make the point that it is not a Biblical practice and therefore not instituted by Jesus, not a commanded practice and therefore not necessary as part of the Christian life. I believe that we should be keeping Passover instead because that appears to be the expectation of Jesus for us.
Matthew 26:29 ~ "I tell you I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom."
hmmm...I wonder if Jesus drank the forth cup? Or is this the forth cup referenced in this passage when Jesus drinks anew in the Father's house?
:excited:...Now thats what I call somethin to Gnaw on...:eat:...Study to show thy self approved...Agree that in order to understand the Man / Jesus is to understand His way of life in His times...:applause:...xo
Sarcastic ?...NO !!! My reply was to ToGs post...Good Manna...an thanks I'll check out the link...as far as the fourth cup to be drunk in Heaven as Lord Jesus said He would not drink of the vine until...:winksmile:...xo
What about this Sparrow? If Jesus didn't drink the fourth cup and is expecting to drink it with His disciples when He returns there may be a few million disciples that don't know what He's talking about! :ROFL:
I also wonder about the numerology of it too. Three is the number of completion. When something is said and done three times it is final. It was after the third cup and before the fourth then that it was finished. The fourth cup is the Cup of Praise. The fourth cup does nor represent what Jesus will do but what His people will do upon His return. They will praise Him for eternity.
Check out this link for a brief description of the Seder (Passover) service.
