Thread: Galations proves that we should keep the Torah
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Galations proves that we should keep the Torah
Posted : 20 Sep, 2010 02:44 AM
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Messiah has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
The yoke of bondage is (as we discussed in previous chapters) the 'good news of the circumcision.' As we discussed, Peter agreed with this in Acts 15:10-11. See the previous chapter discussions for more information.
Circumcision
At this point, Paul begins to make some important statements about circumcision and its role in the true 'good news'. In short, circumcision is not part of the good news of Yahushua in the sense that whether we we can still receive salvation whether we are circumcised or uncircumcised, . Let's continue in Galatians 5:
Galatians 5:2-5 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Messiah will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Messiah, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
One of the most important things to remember when reading the book of Galatians is that he is speaking to a certain group of people. In this case, he is speaking to the Galatians who were about to fall prey to a false 'good news'. As is evidenced by Paul's statements, "You have become estranged from Messiah, you who attempt to be justified by law" and "For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith," the subject matter at hand is whether or not circumcision is a part of the true good news that brings salvation.
Paul was NOT against circumcision if done for the right reasons. Proof of this is found in (once again) Paul's own example and practice:
Acts 16:1-3 Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek: 2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium. 3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.
In light of the common interpretation of Galatians 5, Paul was doing the very thing that most people think Paul was telling the Galatians not to do! Was he circumcising Timothy so that "Messiah could profit him nothing" and so that he would become "estranged from Messiah?"
Galatians 5:3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Messiah, you who [attempt] [to] be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Why did Paul tell the Galatians that they would be "fallen from grace," "estranged from Messiah," and "Messiah would profit them nothing" if they were to become circumcised because of Jewish pressures but then circumcise Timothy "because of the Jews?" Was Paul a hypocrite? Certainly not, but he would be if you went along with the common interpretation of Galatians. He was on one hand trying to tell the Gentiles of Galatia to not give into Jewish pressures, but then by most interpreters he gave into Jewish pressures himself in Acts 16:1-3. What is really going on here?
The truth is that Paul was not against circumcision. He was against the false doctrines found in the "good news of the circumcision" which were a perversion of the true "good news" that Yahweh desires to proclaim.
Timothy's father was a Greek. This means that Timothy would not be of Jewish heritage because in scripture a person's lineage follows the fatherly line. Today, Orthodox Jews believe it follows the mother's lineage but it is not certain if this was the practice in the first century. But even as the son of a Gentile, Timothy was raised in the scriptures by his Jewish mother Eunice (2Tim. 1:5, 3:15), was "well reported of by the brethren" according to Acts 16:2, and was ready in his heart to be circumcised.
Now there is no record of Paul ever circumcising anyone other than Timothy. But we see that in Acts 16:3, Paul decided to take it upon himself to circumcise Timothy. Why did Paul want to do the actual act of circumcision here? To prove to the Jews that he was not in any way against circumcising the son of a Gentile if it was done for reasons that would not pervert the good news of Yahushua. He did this right after going to the apostles and elders about the circumcision question in Acts 15. Paul's decision to make sure he was the one to circumcise Timothy would alleviate any concerns that Paul's trip to Jerusalem had any intentions of doing away with circumcision as a whole, even for the son of a Gentile--as it says "for they all knew his father was a Greek."
Let's read the verses in Galatians again:
Galatians 5:2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, the Messiah will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Messiah, you who [attempt] [to] be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
The issue here was our source of "righteousness." Those who held to the 'good news of the circumcision' believed that person had to learn/ obey the Torah and be circumcised before they could be considered righteous, and thus be saved. But the true good news is that one need only repent and believe in Yahushua to be considered righteous, and thus be saved. The former was an attempt to be "justified (declared righteous) by the law." The latter was the humble admission that our own righteousness is inadequate to gain any hope of receiving salvation through it. As a reminder, let's look at our diagram again:
:::::Good News of 'the Circumcision':::::::
Repent and accept Yahushua
THEN
Learn all of the Torah and obey it
THEN
Get circumcised
THEN
YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED AND ARE DECLARED RIGHTEOUS
Vain attempt to be "justified by the law"
Still "Under the law"
:::The True Good News::::
Repent and accept Yahushua (Acts 2:38)
THEN
YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED AND ARE DECLARED RIGHTEOUS
"Justification by faith" in Yahushua
Humbly "Under grace"
If a man was to try to be "justified by the law" by submitting to the 'good news of the circumcision' and getting circumcised, they would be a "debtor to keep the whole law." Why? Because in order for us to be justified (declared righteous) by the law, we would need to keep every single commandment in order to be considered righteous. For whether we fail in one point, or a thousand points, we are still labeled a transgressor. For this reason, any attempt to be justified by the law will utterly fail. This is why the law has no part in justifying us. We need Yahushua for our righteousness/justification. That's why it says that we "wait for the hope of righteousness by faith."
Galatians 5:5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in the Messiah Yahushua neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
So again Paul makes the point that if we are in the Messiah Yahushua, whether we are circumcised or uncircumcised it doesn't amount to anything in regards to whether or not we have righteousness. If we come to Yahushua, we are saved regardless of whether we are circumcised or not. Let's examine those verses once more before moving on:
Galatians 5:2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, the Messiah will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Messiah, you who [attempt] [to] be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in the Messiah Yahushua neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
Again, keep in mind that Paul himself circumcised Timothy. Therefore when it says "the Messiah will profit you nothing" and "every man who becomes circumcised...is a debtor to keep the whole law" and "you have become estranged from Messiah," it does not mean everyone in the entire world who becomes circumcised is condemned.
Paul is writing to the Galatians. Before we think his statements apply to everyone in the entire world, we need to examine the context, examine other scriptures, and examine Paul's own practices to get a full understanding of what was intended. Otherwise we have Paul sending Timothy to the lake of fire by circumcising him "because of the Jews."
Paul is addressing the false 'good news of the circumcision,' so for someone to be circumcised by them was a sign of submission to that false doctrine, a doctrine so dangerous it could cause a man to lose his salvation. Paul himself did circumcise the son of a Gentile to prove he wasn't against circumcision, but he vigorously refuted anyone who taught this 'good news of the circumcision' which was always was a false doctrine.
The truth is that if we are in the Messiah Yahushua, whether we are circumcised or uncircumcised doesn't gain us salvation. To the contrary, if we use it (or any other commanded act) as attempt to replace the work of Messiah, we are putting ourselves under the law and separating ourselves from Yahushua.
We are sons of Abraham through Yahushua the Messiah, not circumcision. In this sense it avails us nothing. But circumcision for the right reasons does fulfill a purpose. Otherwise Timothy endured a very painful ordeal for nothing. He wasn't getting circumcised because he wanted to witness to the Jews, as some say. Timothy was going to be circumcised anyway. Paul was choosing to be the one who actually did the act of circumcising Timothy 'because of the Jews'. He was proving to them that he was not against circumcision if done for the right reasons. What are the right reasons? No, it is not so that you can impress the Jews! He was clearly dead against that!
In the Torah, circumcision was never the first item on Yahweh's list of things He desired. Yahweh didn't give Abraham the covenant of circumcision on the day that he called him. He gave the covenant of circumcision to Abraham after Abraham had walked with Him many years.
This was also how Yahweh dealt with this issue with the children of Israel. The children of Israel were in the wilderness for 40 years and were not circumcising their children but Yahweh said nothing about it until just before they entered the promised land:
Joshua 5:2-7 At that time Yahweh said unto Joshua, Make thee sharp knives, and circumcise again the children of Israel the second time. 3 And Joshua made him sharp knives, and circumcised the children of Israel at the hill of the foreskins. 4 And this is the cause why Joshua did circumcise: All the people that came out of Egypt, that were males, even all the men of war, died in the wilderness by the way, after they came out of Egypt. 5 Now all the people that came out were circumcised: but all the people that were born in the wilderness by the way as they came forth out of Egypt, them they had not circumcised. 6 For the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, till all the people that were men of war, which came out of Egypt, were consumed, because they obeyed not the voice of Yahweh: unto whom Yahweh sware that he would not shew them the land, which Yahweh sware unto their fathers that he would give us, a land that floweth with milk and honey. 7 And their children, whom he raised up in their stead, them Joshua circumcised: for they were uncircumcised, because they had not circumcised them by the way.
The trek of the children of Israel going through the wilderness is a picture of our own salvation. It wasn't until just before they entered the promised land that Yahweh said anything about it. Why? Yahweh had some major sin that needed to be dealt with first. Idolatry, fornication, and a lack of faith were the major issues that needed to be dealt with first.
The same is true of Gentiles who are turning to Yahweh. They need to focus on learning Yahweh's commandments and practicing them before they concern themselves with circumcision:
Romans 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
For this reason Paul told the (very carnal) Corinthians who were turning to Yahweh:
1 Corinthians 7:18-19 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. 19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of Elohim.
The real focus for one being called was the need to keep Yahweh's commandments. This was in perfect line with the ruling in Acts 15. Gentiles needed to spend their time learning the Torah and this was the reason James made the ruling in Acts 15:
Acts 15:19-21 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to Elohim: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
The expectation that came out of this ruling was that the Gentiles would be learning the Torah when they attended the synagogues every Sabbath. This is why James limited the requirements for new believers to some 'necessary things' which demonstrated their allegiance to Yahweh. The 'pollutions of idols... fornication... things strangled, and .. blood' had to do with idolatrous temple practices.
Now Timothy was not circumcised as a child because his father was a Greek. But he was not raised to be an idol worshiper. His Jewish mother and grandmother raised him in the scriptures:
2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Messiah Yahushua.
Because of this, Timothy, who was 'well reported of by the brethren,' was quite ready as an adult to go ahead and get circumcised. Paul's decision to be the one who circumcise him in Acts 16:1-3 was proof that Paul still preached circumcision if done for the right reasons. He did this to prove to the Jews that he was not against circumcision--even if the person is an adult and the son of a Gentile.
As we know, the actual commanded time of circumcision was on the 8th day. For an adult to go through this process is extremely painful. It wasn't the first item on Yahweh's agenda in the Torah and it wasn't in the first century assembly either, per the ruling in Acts 15 and other verses.
Galatians 5:7-11 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? 8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. 9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. 10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be. 11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.
Further evidence that Paul was not against circumcision is Paul's statement "if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution?" Because Paul still preaches circumcision, and proved that he wasn't against it in Acts 16:1-3, there should be nothing offensive about Yahushua's death on the tree being sufficient to bring salvation. But because some in Judah did not see righteousness by faith, they do stumble:
Romans 9:30-33 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
So the Gentiles were receiving righteousness by faith in Yahushua while many of the Jews were not because they were setting aside the work of Yahushua and trying to gain righteousness by their own works of law keeping. Thus, Yahushua became a stumbling stone and rock of offense to them rather than the only begotten Son of Yahweh who was able to make them righteous.
If Paul did not preach circumcision, there would be a legitimate reason for them to stumble because circumcision is clearly something Yahweh commanded (Genesis 17:12, Lev 12:2-3, Exodus 12:48). But Paul points out: the fact that he did preach circumcision should cause the 'offense of the cross/stake' to 'cease.' The only reason it does not is because some are not seeking righteousness by faith in Yahushua, but by their own works. For this reason, the children of the bondwoman persecute the children of the freewoman--as we read earlier.
Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
But everyone, Jew or Gentile, is able to receive the rebirth of the Spirit if they are willing to let the Adam man die and let Yahushua live in them by the power and wisdom of Elohim:
1 Corinthians 1:22-24 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Messiah crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Messiah the power of Elohim, and the wisdom of Elohim.
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Messiah: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Messiah liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of Elohim, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Let's continue in Galatians 5:
Galatians 5:12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you.
Some have understood this to mean that Paul was hoping that the ones who troubled the Galatians would emasculate themselves. I don't believe that this is necessarily true because being 'cut off' can also be in reference to someone who is cut off from the community of believers. Being cut off from the fellowship of believers is certainly the context of his statement:
Galatians 5:7-10 I have confidence in you through the Master, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be. 11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased. 10 I would they were even cut off which trouble you.
So Paul's confidence was that they would judge the who were troubling them by cutting them off from fellowship. They needed to be judged because they were perverting the true good news of Yahushua and turning people toward their own 'good news of the circumcision,' a doctrine that was never true at any time in history. New believers in Yahushua have the grace and liberty to learn and apply Yahweh's commandments as His Spirit leads, without having a spiritual gun pointed to their head if they don't immediately whip into shape. But Paul does warn the Galatians that liberty is not to be used as an excuse to walk in sin:
Galatians 5:13-26 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Indeed it is true that all of Yahweh's law is fulfilled when we love our neighbor as ourselves. Knowing this, we should forsake the idea that we don't keep a certain commandment because "Yahushua fulfilled all that." The truth is that Yahushua fulfilled every commandment in the Torah and if He is dwelling in us then we will fulfill them as well! This is what it truly means to "walk in the Spirit."
Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
And again:
Romans 8:5-10 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against Elohim: for it is not subject to the law of Elohim, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please Elohim. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of Elohim dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Messiah, he is none of his. 10 And if Messiah be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
So the carnal minded man is at enmity against Elohim because it is not subjecting itself to the Torah, which teaches us to love Yahweh and love one another. Our liberation in Messiah is never to be used as an excuse to continue transgressing the Torah/law of Yahweh, as is commonly taught today. It is because we have transgressed the Torah/law of Yahweh that Yahushua had to come and die for us in the first place!
Paul now goes on to explain the way one walks in the Spirit:
Galatians 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Notice it says that we will not be under the law if we are led of the Spirit. There are two ways that we can find ourselves 'under the law'. One is by refusing to acknowledge that our righteousness and our salvation comes from Yahushua alone. The other is by refusing to be led by His Spirit which causes us to walk in His statutes, keep His judgments and do them! So Paul warns the Galatians:
Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of Elohim.
How is that for a warning! We must walk in the Spirit and never use our liberty as an occasion or excuse to disobey Yahweh.
Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Messiah's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
So Yahweh's plan was to promise all of us eternal life through Abraham's Seed, Yahushua. First by showing us the path of righteousness which is in His law. And Yahweh, being ever so merciful, gave His only Son to redeem us from the curses that result in our disobedience to Him. The standard of righteousness DOES NOT CHANGE when we accept Yahushua, but our standing before Yahweh does!
It is a total distortion to teach that everyone else in the world is expected to refrain from sin (transgression of the law) and will be condemned for their failure to keep it but those who receive Yahushua are free to purposely transgress the law all day long! This is not Yahweh's 'Good news' and Paul was making that very clear! We need to walk in the Spirit! If we walk in the Spirit, we will be 'subject to the law of Yahweh.'
But we will not misuse the law of Yahweh to make it fulfill a function that it is never able to fulfill: Bring us righteousness and salvation. It is this misuse of the Torah that Paul is addressing in Galatians. Let's not misuse his writings to say something that he never meant to say.
Those who do so are in a lot of trouble:
2 Peter 3:13-17 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Master is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
So let's be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless. Let's not be among the unlearned and unstable who twist his letters to their own destruction. In the end, Yahushua will not be saying "Depart from me, ye commandment keepers!" Rather, as Paul said, those who walk in the flesh (the former ways of sin) will not inherit the kingdom of Yahweh.
Therefore, let's walk in the Spirit...being found by Him without spot and blameless. Not because of our own righteousness, but because of His indwelling. If He dwells in us, then He will cleanse us of the former things and give us the power to walk as He walked, live and He lived, and be where He is! This is the good news!
Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his Elohim, and he shall be my son.
Let it be so that we are among the inheritors, ever faithful to trust in His righteousness for our salvation, ever seeking to walk in His Spirit, ever cleaving to the one who is the same yesterday, today and forever. The eternal principles of love as given in the Torah have not changed and they never will. Let's seek to walk in those eternal principles...that we might likewise remain...that His word (Yahushua) would abide in us forever.
May Yahweh bless you and may He have mercy on us all!
the Torah is the first five books of any Bible,,it is much more than this though,,the Torah is the WORD straight from the CREATOR'S Mouth,,this was given to Mosheh on Mount Sinai,,,the Torah was not just given to the Jews it was given to all that followed,,when they left Egypt they had multitudes of people and nations with them and this WORD was for all that followed,,the sojourner in the camp with them everyone,,,and JESUS kept this as HE lived,, HE never said this is done away with,,,the Torah and the Prophets are how they knew who HE was,,and if you say that you are going to do away with that then you may as well do away with the Prophets as well and stop reading Psalms and anything for that matter that is not in the New Writings,,,see the problem is that man all of man is trying to separate what YAHWAH or YAHSHUA never separated,,you are trying to split the WORD in two and say that part is done away with,,the WORD of the FATHER is GOOD and always will be,,we are not in any position to say that we can break HIS WORD in two,,,YAHSHUA fulfilled the Spring Feast but HE is still coming back to fulfill the Fall Feast so we are to be ready and not sleeping as you will be if you have no clue what the SCriptures are about,,and this beautiful lady's post tells you everything in it,,,she says why do we need the Torah it was given to the Jews i bet she has no clue that the JESUS that she says she knows was Jewish and that it was HIS people who wrote all the Scripture she bases her life on,,you can not understand the Scripture in a sound way without knowing something about the Torah because the Torah is what they are all talking about all the time they are talking about the Torah,,,YAHSHUA is always talking to the Pharisees about how they are breaking the Torah by making up Rabbinic laws for the people to follow,,sha'ul knew the Scriptures and he knew what it meant to be a Pharisee,,,my dear dear sister if you have no clue why or what the Torah is then how in the world do you know a MESSIAH that is fulfilling it??? how can you know??? please know that i ask you and say that you are beautiful with all respect and i do plead with you to understand the whole book of your Bible not just parts,,i love you in our MESSIAH and i beg you to learn about HIM
so let me pose this question : How do you know that it is not right for a man to sleep with a man? DID JESUS ever teach on this?? if not where do you get it from?? and if it is the Torah then that would mean that the old law is void and so it is okay now for men to sleep with men?? right??
i love you hahahahaha
thank you for making me your e husband hahahaha i am flattered thank you!!!
On the post, "Galations proves that we should keep the Torah," icebro seems to be trying to mix the Old Covenant, the Law, with the New Covenant, and smeow with the Jerusalem which is free, above and is the mother of all. It appears he is following the Hebrew Roots movement, which is another false doctrine.
Proverbs 14: 12: "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but
...the end thereof are the ways of death."
The way that seems right to the Hebrew Roots followers is to bring the Old Covenant or many parts of it into the Christian faith.
But the problem is that after the
Cross and after the Day of Pentecost the Old Covenant was done away
with and now in the New Covenant there is nothing but Jesus Christ. The New Testament has its own list of sins to be avoided. In
the Hebrew Roots Movement there is a mix of the Old and New Covenant.
And this bringing back of
the Old Covenant under a judaising movement is of the spirit of antichrist.
Hebrew Roots is a movement of
Christians, including Messianic Jews, whose leaders may claim to be returning the Christian church to the practices and beliefs of the first century church at Jerusalem, which they believe operated in a Hebrew mindset.
Many Hebrew Roots leaders say Christians must learn the Hebrew mindset
and get out of the Greek mindset which the Christian church has been
in. Part of this Hebrew mindset is making use of their own versions
of the Bible. They often claim that the New Testament was written in
Hebrew or Aramaic.
Luke 16: 16:
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the
kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Luke 3: 9:
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every
tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and
cast into the fire.
The tree the ax is laid to is the Old Covenant and ethnic Israel as
the chosen people who rejected Christ;and could we also say also
the �Hebrew mindset�?
I found a web site in which a Hebrew Roots
leader tries to deal with
Galatians 4: 24-26, which says
"Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
This Hebrew Roots leader - Eddie Chumney of the
Hebraic Heritage Ministries International - says:
"Because they try to interpret the book of Galatians through
their own established church doctrines (the traditions of men),
traditional Christianity has misunderstood the ALLEGORY that Paul
speaks of in Galatians 4.
"Paul
was actually explaining the difference between someone who
puts their trust in man-made tradition (church doctrines / oral law)
and who disobeys Torah verses someone who puts their trust in Yeshua
the Messiah and obeys Torah. "
By Torah the Hebrew Roots people apparently mean the moral and
ceremonial law given to Moses.
And so this Hebrew Roots leader would say that the Bible commentary on
Galatians 4; 24-26 by John Gill or Adam Clarke, who wrote before
dispensationalism arrived is nothing but man made tradition and
church doctrines as an interpretation of Galatians.
But an important point the Hebrew Roots people miss is that Torah or
the law only tells us we have sinned. It does not offer a solution to
our sin, does not offer complete redemption as Christ's blood does.
And as Paul says in Galatians 3: 23-28
23. "But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto
the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ,
that we might be justified by faith.
25. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free,
there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."
Before faith came the Jews were kept under the law, under the Old
Covenant which Paul describes as being under a schoolmaster. But the
Gentiles who were offered salvation in Christ by faith in him alone
did not have to be
under the schoolmaster for a time before they came under faith. Its
as though the Christian Gentiles who have gone all the way through
graduate school are now told by the Hebrew Roots people that we must
go back to grade school to study there before we can please God.
On Paul's position on circumcision read I Corinthians 7: 18 "Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised."
If a man has become a believer who is not circumcised Paul says let him not be circumcised.
Great Halfback... and as Paul points out whether circumcised or uncircumcised, it doesn't matter anymore, becasue this is not what bring us into right standing with God, only through Jesus Christ by faith can this happen.
Yes, many Jews are mixing the Old with the New, no different than what Paul went thorugh in the 1st century church with the new Jewish and Gentile converts. But you just can't have it both ways.
Ice, as I said, it isn't that the Torah which only means the Old Testament, is not longer in effect, because it is still the word of God recorded by his prohets of old. But I continue to say, Jesus Christ is now our law, his coming to earth, his death on the cross, his resurrection, and his soon return has FULFILLED THE LAW that God gave to Mose for the people, becasue God needed a standard by which to poeple should follow. As Paul say where there is no law, there is nojusdgment according to the law, but where there is a law, there must be judgment according to the law.
The rituals of the law, the many customs, the many scarifices that were required so that the people could find right standing before God, are no long in effect, because now when we sin we can go on our knees and pray to God our Father, and ask Him to forgive us of our sins in repentance. It is no longer required for anyone to bring three turtle doves , and four goose egga, and snake oil and lay them on the altar as a sacrifice offering for your sins. Jesus laid His life on the altar for our sins. The curtain was torn in the temple which said the old has now become the new. Hebrews chapters chapters 1-5 is a good place to start with understand these things.
Jesus is the new law in town, Jesus Christ is superior to Moses and the Mosaic law., becasue what the law fail to do, Jesus' death on the cross did the work of salvation and broought forth the righteousness of God in all who believe.:glow::applause:... we are to still recognize the Old covenant in order to understand the new covenant, but our salvation and righteousness is in the new covenant, and just as God renewed his covenant with Abraham, God renewed his covenant with us through Jesus Christ.:applause::hearts:
Beachbunny, maybe this will amke it a little clearer as to what the Torah is all about.
The Torah (direction, instruction, law) The common Hebrew word for "LAW"", so rended over 200 times in the Old Testament. It is used for human instructions, but it usually expresses divine law. The entire Pentateuch( the five books of Moese became known as the Torah. This section of the Old Testament is constanly referred to in the Scriptures as the "Law of Moses" or "the law of the Lord". Torah even became the name of the entire Jewish Scriptures.
The Torah is the entirety of Judaism's founding legal and ethical religious texts.[2][3] A "Sefer Torah" (סֵפֶר תּוֹרָה, "book of Torah") or Torah scroll is a copy of the Torah written on parchment in a formal, traditional manner by a specially trained scribe under strict requirements.
The Torah is the first of three parts of the Tanakh (i.e. Hebrew Bible), the founding religious document of Judaism,[4] and is divided into five books, whose names in English are Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy, in reference to their themes (their Hebrew names: Bereshit, בראשית, Shmot שמות, Vayikra ויקרא, Bamidbar במדבר, and Dvarim דברים, are derived from the wording of their initial verses).
The Torah contains a variety of literary genres, including allegories, historical narrative, poetry, genealogy, and the exposition of various types of law. According to rabbinic tradition, the Torah contains the 613 mitzvot (מצוות, "commandments"), which are divided into 365 restrictions and 248 positive commands.[5] In rabbinic literature, the word "Torah" denotes both the written text, "Torah Shebichtav" (תורה שבכתב, "Torah that is written"), as well as an oral tradition, "Torah Shebe'al Peh" (תורה שבעל פה, "Torah that is oral"). The oral portion consists of the "traditional interpretations and amplifications handed down by word of mouth from generation to generation," now embodied in the Talmud and Midrash.[6]
Jewish religious tradition ascribes authorship of the Torah to Moses through a process of divine inspiration. This view of Mosaic authorship is first found explicitly expressed in the Talmud, dating from the 1st to the 6th centuries CE, and is based on textual analysis of passages in the Torah and the subsequent books of the Hebrew Bible.
Contemporary secular biblical scholars date the completion of the Torah, as well as the prophets and the historical books, no earlier than the Persian period (539 to 334 BCE).[7] According to dating of the text by Orthodox rabbis, some place it during the revelation of the Torah to Moses, which occurred in 1312 BCE at Mount Sinai;[8] another date given for this event is 1280 BCE.[9]
However, the Zohar, the most significant text in Jewish mysticism, states that the Torah was created prior to the creation of the world, and that it was used as the blueprint for Creation.[10] Scholarly discussion for much of the 20th century was principally couched in terms of the documentary hypothesis, according to which the Torah is a synthesis of documents from a small number of originally independent sources.[11]
Outside of its central significance in Judaism, the Torah is accepted by Christianity as part of the Bible, comprising the first five books of the Old Testament.[12] The various denominations of Jews and Christians hold a diverse spectrum of views regarding the exactitude of scripture.
The Torah has also been accepted to varying degrees by the Samaritans, an ethnoreligious group of the Levant, and others as the authentic revealed message of YHWH to the early Israelites and as factual history, in both cases as conveyed by Moses.
OK, Ice, again, The Torah is Old Testament law, and although we are not required to follow it, we still are required to respect God's word as they pretain to our lifestyles. As Paul states the law is holy and good pointing us to our sins, Roamans chapter 7.
The law is God's will through words, works, and His precepts. The Jews found faith in God by obeying the law. But when Christ came, He fulfilled the law, in that we are set free from trying to keep the law because we are unable to keep the whole law, as were the Jews of old, even so today.
Yes, Jesus loved and respected the law, however, the purpose of the Old Testament law was to prepare the way for the coming of Christ. In that the law shows us our sinfulness, but as in the Old Testament it does not bring victory to overcome our sinfulness, and this is Paul's point in the book of Galatians and in Roamans.
I would like to think that Jesus summarized the alw when He gave us the commandment to love God with all our hearts, minds, souls, and spirits, and to love our neighbr as we love oursleves, and in doing this we obey the law of Christ.
The law of Moses is of works, but the law of Christ is of grace and love, which is not difficult for everyone to keep.
If a person loves the Lord, they will not find it hard to obey God's word, Romans chapter1, let's us know that sleeping around with another man or women of the same sex is a sin, it was a sin in Moses' laws, and it is still a sin. Sin is sin no matter what book of the Bible you find it.
I am going to say AGAIN, the Torah is not needed for New Testament Christians! Christ did away with the LAW. He in fact came to break the law! He is about a relationship not about LAW. The pharisees and sadducees were constantly trying to trip Jesus up and He said go and speak to your Father in secret, don't stand on the street corner and preach, don't give so that everyone sees you. He also said that if you look at a woman with lust in your heart you've committed adultery, if that doesn't make it more personal than THE LAW, I don't know what does. I have several Jewish friends and I love them dearly, yet they are all about following the LAW, yet following the LAW is not going to get you into heaven - the only way to heaven is through Jesus who is the way the truth and the light. Seriously, I have no idea why this would even be an issue for new testament Christians . . if you remember Paul was talking to Jews in Galatia as well as the gentiles. All of this is legalism . . . circumcision is not necessary - as is the eating of meat . . . most of what Paul had to deal with was believers arguing amongst themselves and he ends up telling them that it's not important, what's important is the condition of your heart. You can eat meat if you want, you can circumcise if you want . . .churches today get caught up in legalism all the time and forget what the most important things are. That is what this sounds like to me.
Now . . . all that God wanted US to know is contained in all 66 books of the Bible. In the Old Testament are all the prophecies and strangely and SADLY the Jews missed they're own MESSIAH and you're going to say that I have to learn something about the Torah because I don't know about the God I serve. I think not!
Gen 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your 4skin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. Notice that circumsion is a token of the covenant.
First of all this covenant is of YHWH and not Abraham or for that matter no on else.
It is a covenant betweem YHWH to Abraham.
Man cannot make a covenant with YHWH for man does not seek YHWH,but YHWH seeks man.
Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
Token,what does this HEBREW word mean,let us see.
H226 אות 'ôth oth
Probably from H225 (in the sense of appearing); a signal (literally or figuratively), as a flag, beacon, monument, omen, prodigy, evidence, etc.: - mark, miracle, (en-) sign, token.
This token then is a sign that Abraham agreed with YHWH and to the conditions of the Covenant.
It was an outward sign to the unbelieving Gentiles that they,the Hebrews were trusting YHWH.
Just as the Christians take Baptizing a person in water as a token/sign that one is believing/trusting Yeshua .
The cross is a token of YHWH's love and covenant with those trusting Yeshua to save them.
Love is a token of discipleship:
John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
As far as the Torah/Old Covenant,if we do away with this,than we do away with the writings of the New Covenant. For a great portion of the New Covenant contains the Old covenant as well.
Mat 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment. Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. I beleive toooo many Christians do not want to study the Old Covenant in order to witness with the Hebrews..
Yeshua says that it is written of me in the law and the prophets.
Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Luk 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Luk 24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things. Which Scriptures did Yeshua open the mind of His disciples to,the New Covenant......NO,the Old Covenant..
John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
Please everyone Study to show yourselves approved unto GOD.
This is to also study the Old Covenant as well.
Mat 13:52 Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
Shalom and Chesed:
St.George
ps: I have been saved by Grace through faith,not by works.
Yeshua came to fulfill all righteousness,and to fulfill all that is written about Him,yet He did not come to do away with the Old Covenant,even the law.
