Based on what scripture teaches us, God is not through with Israel. There will be a remnant saved, the covenant promises God made with Abraham and David will be fulfill in its fullness.
1For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
2And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
3And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
4And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.
5Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
6And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
7They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
8So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
9And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
10But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
11And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
12Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
13But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
14Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
15Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
16So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
The Israelites were chosen from foundation to bring redemption through Christ. How ever God chose to use them to do so was his call, and the fact that he will redeem them is also his. Just as in the parable above where he meted out equal wages for seasoned laborers and the fresh faced who showed up at the end.
His riches in Christ are his to give to whom he pleases without measure. His generosity is to be appreciated by us instead of us classifying who gets what... Hope that made things a bit clearer.
I'm sorry, I must be blind....I still don't see how that parable says that people who don't believe in God will be saved. Only the laborers that worked are saved. I do not think that a person that does not believe is going to be forced to be an heir to the promise, Jew or not. I'm pretty sure the bible teaches that if we each do not believe and/or if we continue in unbelief, we will be cut off from the vine of Israel and we will not receive an inheritance. I do believe that Israel will have a remnant in the last days, but I do not believe that every Israelite will magically believe in God.
How many times did God promise, I will be their God, and they will be my people. I will give them a new heart to worship me and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more?
Well, if you're talking about Ezekiel and prophecies like it, then I think that already happened. God has already gathered His Israel from the nations and brought them back to their home. The rest of the prophecies haven't happened yet.
Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
The prophecies in Ezekiel 39 and Isaiah 40-66 are talking about what has already happened, and what happens before the second coming of Christ.
I'm not sure what you guys are talking about, but I do not believe Jesus is coming back to set up an earthly kingdom. That's sounds a lot like the mistake the Pharisees made. I don't believe we'll be living on this earth during the millennium. We won't live on the earth again until it is recreated.
As for God saving all of Israel, it sounds to me like He scattered them everywhere because they sinned against Him. They were punished, and now God has forgotten their sins that they did to deserve exile and brought them back to their inheritance...but I don't think that means that when Jesus comes again every Jew will make it to heaven just because they were born one, and I don't think God is going to force all of them to convert.
Mark, all I can say is that if you're not reading and studying what GOD HAS TO SAY, you can't properly discussion biblical with spiritual understanding, outside of your own thoughts and opions. We didn't write the word... Israel will be saved! And that's a Fred Sanford, PERIOD behind that sentence:rocknroll:
Also, you must be from the "show me state", anddoubting Thomas gotta be your granddaddy:ROFL: and a member of the Jewish sect during Jesus' times wherein they needed a sign, before they would believe. SWEETHEART, YOU AIN'T GITTIN NO SIGN:ROFL:... You've got all you gone git that is written in the word.
Your UNBELIEF after hearing the truth, and after being given the word of God is no difference than those who are in unbelief and refuse to accept the truth about Jesus and salvation. So my questions to you is WHY IS IT THAT YOU CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT IS WRITTEN?
You are expressing YOUR OWN PERSON OPINIONS OF UNBELIEF against GOD'S WRITTEN WORD OF PROMISES AND COVENANT. So what your problem with your UNBELIEF in this matter? This is no difference than a lost person who refuses to accept God free gift of salvation, and has all kinds of excuses as to why he/she doesn't believe, or is not a Christian. They believe there is a God, but cannot belive in Jesus. waaassssssup with this?? :stop:think about it!
Cuzzz, if you can't believe these things that are written, how in the world can you believe all other things that are written in God's word? You can't believe some things in the Bible that agree with your personal belief system, and makes you feels good, and not believe the others things. That's a false balance, and what does God says about a flase balance?...think about it.
Now if your unbelief is because you don't UNDERSTABND these things, I would suggest that you ask QUESTIONS, and STOP trying to speak as if you have all knowledge in the matter as a trained experienced Biblical teacher.
I seriously think this is your problem, you don't understand, and you're not reading, and you refuse to ask question so that you MIGHT come into an understanding, because of your pride. How else can you spiritually learn and come into knowledge if you are too prideful to ask questions about something you know you don't understand or see clearly. But instead you continue to voice your own thoights and opinions, saying nothing that is Biblically based, just what you think and believe.
Mark, Get a grip young fellow, and start READING and ask questions about those things you DON"T understand in the Bible, instead of trying to be an all knowing teacher of the word, when you're indeed without the word.
I don't mean to be mean, but you deserve a strong rebuke along about now. I see much in you, and you have need to get a move on yourself, and start seriously STUDYING what God has to say, and stop with speaking so much of your own opinions. Use Timothy, Titus and Apollos as your spiritual examples..:peace::hearts:
PRAY FOR THE PEACE OF JERUSELM! MAY THOSE WHO LOVE HER PROSPER, AND MAY THOSE WHO PRAY FOR HER HAVE PEACE WITHIN YOUR HOMES AND IN YOUR CITIES!:applause::glow::rocknroll::peace::peace:
If, as you say, "All of Israel is the Jews and Gentiles of faith", how do you explain Romans 11:25?
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Did blindness in part happen to the Gentiles as well, if indeed all Israel consists of Jew and Gentile? Paul made a distinction between Israel and the Gentiles. Israel's blindness will continue until the fullness of the Gentiles.
Romans 11:26 says -And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
The Church is never referred to as Jacob. Jacob is Israel. And Israel is not the Church.
One other question, Zaohagios. Paul tells us in Romans 11:28-
As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.
If 'all of Israel consists of Jews and Gentiles of faith', who then are the "enemies for your sakes"? Do Jews and Gentiles of faith become enemies to Jews and Gentiles of faith if they are the same entity, one body of believers also known as all Israel?
"Every single one of them? Even the ones that don't believe in God? That's the problem I'm having here, maybe you can explain it better, or at least in a different way. Apparently I'm too ignorant to understand the way you're currently explaining it. The universalism you're using is confusing to me. God's just going to snap His fingers and even Jews that don't even believe in the covenant will suddenly switch over like robots? So people will be saved just because their great-great-great-great-great, etc. grandfather was Jacob? I must be missing something right?"
I don't believe you are too ignorant to understand. I just think you need to read. A lot. You would benefit from reading everything the prophets wrote concerning Israel in the last days, and the covenant God has with her during this time.
No, God is not going to snap His fingers and Israel will be saved. Jeremiah tells us in chapter 30, verse 7, that Israel is going to go through a time known as Jacob's Trouble- "Alas! for that day [is] great, so that none [is] like it: it [is] even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it." The Lord speaks of this time when referring to the Great Tribulation in Matthew 24:21. Israel is going to chastised during this time. Jeremiah 30:11- For I [am] with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.
Zechariah 13:8-9 speaks of this time as well. "And it shall come to pass, [that] in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off [and] die; but the third shall be left therein.
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It [is] my people: and they shall say, The LORD [is] my God." And again in verse 1- "In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness."
I hope you find that easier to understand. And again, I encourage you to read those things in Scripture. If you had, or if you do, you'd realize how ridiculous it sounds to ask whether God snaps His fingers and gathers to Himself a bunch of Jewish robots. :goofball:
Well, ET...I'm going to laugh a little bit and take you less seriously from now on. I think it's kinda funny when certain people go right for the throat when their beliefs are questioned. I do read. It's very easy to read. The hard part is understanding. Maybe you read, but you don't understand? I guess we'll find out who is "right" in this apparent competition for truth eventually. Let's wait and see. I just hope we all have the ability to turn to the truth if it turns out to be our belief that was wrong.
