I just want to clarify what I think this thread is for.I would welcome everyones veiws.I beleive this thread is for discussing theological issues and to intelligently and civilly debate points that we disagree on.
It is not for someone to just come on and tell everyone else their wrong,obviouslly we know people have differences of opinion and theology,we should be able to make our points logically,without emotion.
Also Im kind of tired of the,why cant we all just get along thing.I dont hate people who disagree with me,but I will state my beleifs(and back them up with scripture,articles from wiser men than I.
If someone doesnt like discussing theology there are many other threads,I happen to love it,I find deep theological issues to be intoxicating!
Oh well,just some thoughts
In Christ
steve
P.S.we can respect each other,and even love each other and have meaningful,grownup debates.
The God you speak of is not the father of the lord Jesus Christ, and the false sovereignty teaching, the word of God is clear you come into the family of God by faith and the word declares some will depart by faith giving heed to seducing spirits.
God is God but he is the God of the word not people's minds, he does not disagree with his word.
You know PJ I agree 100%! You and I do not worship the same God or the same Jesus and I am VERY ok with that! Either you are right and I am wrong or I am right and you are wrong but we both can't be right. And I have done a great deal of Bible study and I even lead a Bible study at my church so I am very comfortable with how the Holy Spirit has lead me and given me wisdom. I do not want to seem like I am bragging or boasting here just stateing my credintials that I am not ignorant of what the Bible teaches. So unless you can articulate scriptures and EXPLAIN clearly your understanding better than you have when others have tried to get you to do it, then I have little to no use for your oinions or posting verses with no commentary to support them. Many here have tride to get you to do that and have failed so I am not even interested in shareing doctrines and theology with you. There are plenty of others on this fourm that can have reasonable descussions and debats. But you...WOW!
So this is my one and only time to act knowleage your hate! :devil:
And we have to be careful, because a "false christian" in our view could be a "true christian" in training. Look at your own lives and see how God pulled you from the depths. He could be working on/in the same people we're condemning.
For the sake of those who may be reading this thread, who ARE NOT SAVED, AND WHO DO NOT KNOW JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF THIER SINS, and/or may be a part of a cultic religious group that doesn not believe in Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior.
If we, who are Christians believe ONCE SAVED (truly born again), we are ALWAYS SAVED...
The bible says by faith in the word of God concerning Jesus Gift to the world.
To all that don't believe the word concerning departing from the faith, and all of you that where married I ask, how did you keep your mate's side of the covenant.
And He said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Romans 10:9-13
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Ezekial 18:21-22
But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Romans 2:13
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 12:25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
Romans 10: 14-15
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Matthew 13:13-19
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side...23But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
What I don't understand is if justification is from God and He knows the begining to the end. Why would He justify someone then take it away? Did He not know?
Because a person claims Jesus doenst mean a lot if that person is not claimed by Jesus.
ET what say you? Can someone be saved then lose it?
I have posted my beliefs in this matter of lost salvation. But I will respond again my views.
I say this, if a person is truly commited to the Lord Jesus Christ, and repents daily of their sins and if we walk in our Christian walk, and do very best under the leadership of the Holy Spirit of God who is given to ALL WHO BELIVE IN JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSSION OF THEIR SINS, in obedience. There is NO WAY POSSIBLE for anyone to loses their salvation IF HE/SHE IS TOTALLY SOLD OUT TO CHRIST!
How can you lose something you've never had or taken good care of? If this is possible than Christ's death is in vain, but this is all depnedant upon us totally surrending in obedience to Christ and God's word of truth.
Once saved and always saved is a serious thing, it doesn't give us license to sin, or make us comfortable with sins that we CAN sins knowing that we will be forgiven. The KEY to always saved is what Christ did for us on the cross His suffering death, and when we first believe BY FAITH that He is a rewarder of those who believe. THIS IS THE PROMISE! to Jesus from God, and Jesus promise to us for believing in Him. There is no way for Jesus to loses not one thing that comes to Him by faith and trust and obedience...but the work is up to us to cultivate what we have gained through salvation. Jesus gave the free gift, but WE as believers MUST do the work to not lose it.
Its the same as losing a nice expensive ring, if you care for it and do your very best to value it and place it away safe when not in use, or when wearing it, chances are you will not loses it. If you charish that which Jesus Christ did for you on the cross and what He contiunes to do for you now that you have been born again, and now that you have received this FREE GIFT OF SALVATION through Christ. You will maintain it, sustain, and up keep it with much care and conviction, knowing that before you surrended you were on your way to hell. How then will you loses it?
Salvation is a serious matter, and it is up to us how we treasure it for our own benefit from our hearts.
Hope that answers your question. And please know that it has nothing to do with being reformed, my beliefs are based upon what I, personally know what God has promised through Jesus Christ. Why would God send His Holy Sprit to SEAL us until the day Christ retunrs, and then unseal us when we sins.
Only those as I've stated on this board, only those who have a FORM of godliness are drawn away from the truth of the gospel of salvation who did not TOTALLY COMMIT AND WERE NOT SURRENDERED in the first place. This is even what is written in Hebrews chapter 6, it is impossible for those who have tasted the real Jesus Christ to fall away, and be restore... but its not impossble for those who have Only smelled of His goodness and went through the motions of being saved to fall away, because they only smelled, but did not taste...
Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 12Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth. 13When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it. 14Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right; 15If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die. 16None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live. 17Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal. 18When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby. 19But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby. 20Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways.
