Most people today believe the Lord will honor any kind of worship as long as it is sincere and meaningful for the person doing the worshipping. People pick and choose a faith of their choice and are very tolerant and respectful for each other's beliefs without going to God's word and see if God approves of them. Most people in Christendom believe we should always respect the other person's beliefs regardless whither we believe what they believe or not. Their thinking is we are going in the same direction and as long as its popular or seems right then it's OK.
I'm going to give an in depth look from God's word and see if God truly welcomes whatever you want to believe as long as it sounds reasonable and it feels good and is popular. Their belief system includes; no one can know for sure in this life and if you have a definite convictions from God's word; it is wrong and you a trouble maker to boot. It goes with saying people who advocate this kind of thinking are either not saved or they are saved and are ignorance of God's word. The world even in biblical times branded God's people as trouble makers. They were ether stoned to death, put in jail, fed to the lions and were hated by the people. The only difference today thank goodness, at least in this country they only make suggestion that a believer is a trouble maker and narrow minded. A spiritual believer will count it joy then they come across those who are guilty of things they judge God's people of. Then they will on the other hand say, not to judge, we don't judge you! No wonder the Lord said, Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
The Lord has made it clear, there is only one faith and not the faith of your choice as most practice.
It's says in Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
We should ask ourselves, is God wrong or is what is so popular to believe wrong?
Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.Is believing what we want the right way or is God's way narrow and has no room for believing what we want?
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
God says His way is narrow and straight, but can we know for sure what is right and have all of God's truth on religion, both His way and the way of the world?
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
God tells us wisdom does not come from man, but that which the Holy Spirit teaches by comparing spiritual things with spiritual things.
The bible is really very much alive and self explanatory if we follow God's instructions by studying to show ourselves approved by God. There is no way we can be approved if God's Holy Spirit didn't teach us God's will through His word.
I have seen so many people take two or three verses out of context and make a religion out of those verses and completely ignore the rest of God's word on the subject. God will not give us the spirit of truth and error unless we humble our hearts and minds and allow the Holy Spirit to teach us the truth of God unless we study and compare all of God's word on a subject. God also tells us, if we have the truth, the truth will set us free and indeed will be free indeed.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
We can know God's truth for God himself will witness to our spirit so we will know for sure.
1 Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
God's way is narrow, but true, and it will set you free from the philosophies and false doctrines of man and his sects and denominations.
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
A popular saying is join the church of your choice and God says there is only one body or church.
Romans 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
Romans 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
1 Corinthians 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
The many members is not referring to sects or denominations but is referring to the born again believers in Christ. He is the only one who adds members to His one Body or Church. If you have to join a church it is not the one Christ is building but is a counterfeit designed by man's carnal minds and the god of this world.
Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
If God doesn't add you to His church that is His body then you have no part with God unless you become saved. The many members are added by the Lord.
1 Peter 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
The reason God said the gates of hell will not prevail against His church because there are no unsaved in it.
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
"The only church I belong to, is the one Christ has added me to as a sinner saved by grace, Act 2.47. Paul refers to it as the body of Christ, church, Church of Christ, {not the denomination church of christ} its the one all believes in Christ belong to and put into when they are saved. "
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"When I meet with other believers, we meet only in the name of Christ as I do believe God wants all believers only to be Identified with his name and no other. "
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acts 2:47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.
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lets take a closer look at what this verse means in context shall we ...��who was it was being saved and more importantly how were they being saved to become a part of the church ..�to do so we need to look at more than just one verse.. but lets look at the whole chapter�of peters sermon to gather the� context..
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acts 2:14-47��������� 14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
21 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.
22 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know- 23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 25 For David says concerning Him:
I foresaw the Lord always before my face,
For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad;
Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope.
27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the ways of life;
You will make me full of joy in Your presence.
29 "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
The Lord said to my Lord,
"Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."
30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
The Lord said to my Lord,
"Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."
36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
A Vital Church Grows
40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation." 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. 42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43 Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. 44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, 45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.
46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.
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now in these verses we are taught how to become saved ,so what is it that you need to believe? lets take a look
21 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.
22 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know- 23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 25 For David says concerning Him: I foresaw the Lord always before my face, For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.
30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
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notice here they asked what shall we do?� so peter had already told them they must believe what he is speaking about JESUS CHRIST..�� then what does peter tell them in the next verses� what shall they do?
38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
now folks remember this as this all took place after JESUS S death and ressurection and HIS accention.� peter is still preaching� baptism for the remission of sins even now still.���� and once you do all that peter�tells then you shall receive the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT..
41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. �������������
as we can see in the scriptures that is who was added to the church spoken of in acts
�47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.
with all that said gary���� heres your earlier postin from this same topic the intolerence .. below
"{When a person understands most of the real truth of God's will from the bible, the Lord makes it know in our hearts and there are no contradictions in doctrine as there are in man's philosophical, sectarian doctrines. I'll give you an example. Most worldly doctrines teach two baptisms and not all teach them the same way. Some teach water baptism is necessary for salvation, thus nullifying salvation by grace. Other's teach salvation strictly a grace doctrine then after you are saved, they teach water baptism as a outward sign of an inward work. Neither one is found in scripture as that is part of their belief system. God's word teaches just one baptism for the believer. Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism. That is not a mistake in scripture. Water baptism is and was a ceremonial baptism of repentance for only Jews who believed their Messiah was soon coming. Gentiles were excluded from this baptism we later learn through the inspired word of Paul. Most any knowledgeable student of scripture knows that water baptism was one of the many fleshly ordinances that was done away with along with the law when it was nailed to the Cross."
you say none of the beliefs on baptism are found in scripture here is scripture that says otherwise. �
what did peter an aposotle of CHRIST� have to say about salvation to be a part of the church of a body of believers even after JESUS had been nailed to the cross and his ressurection and assention��� and it also says the promise is to you, your children and to all who are afar off as many as the LORD our GOD will call..
after they asked peter what shall we do to become saved , his answer was
38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
that's what he said to em.. now i understand there will be cases where folks cant get to a baptism ,, like the thief on the cross was ..�� and JESUS took him with him that day..������ peoples on their deathbeds cant get to a submerging either.��and sometimes people have to wait on the preacher to have time to baptize them and they may die suddenly before then� i believe they will be saved as well .� though i believe baptism soons�one can�is very important.��and should not be totally disobeyed. and thrown out as unnessecery.
the LORD JESUS CHRIST also taught us to go and spread the gospel to all nations and to baptize them in the name OF JESUS CHRIST .. the FATHER ,THE SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.
so gary according to your own admission ,you wouldn't be allowed to be a part of that church spoken of in acts 2:47������� cause what you are teaching is not what peter said people shall do to be a part of it.�
you continue to use verses that tear down your own beliefs. can you not see this?
you lay scriptures at other peoples doors such as the way you did to�thunder, yet you yourself have been doin nothing but judging everyone who doesn't believe the same as you to be unfit, unsaved, not of GOD , and of the world and of a carnal mind.and judges ����� the same verses you keep using are pointed right back at you..
you said "When I meet with other believers, we meet only in the name of Christ as I do believe God wants all believers only to be Identified with his name and no other. "
heres another thought , you are right on one thing there GOD does want us all believers to be identified with HIS name..�� and that's why we are�called christian.��even you have a secondary denomination its called�garyism�.������ baptist and pentecostols, methodists,catholics, protestants, adventists ect ect theyre all secondary names.. it gives folks an idea of who believes close likely to what they believe..���� but all believers and saved people are called christians first and foremost.
i think this is a prime example of why not just anyone is allowed to preach in churches.���
2 peter 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scripture
������������������������������������������� ���written by the outlaw joesy wales�
reading your initial post I ran into some questions and finally, the whole post left me back confused about what you ewant to say, so please, I would appreciate it if you just made it a bit clearer for this slow-brained guy:glow:
You speak of tolerance in worship and ask if it is right or wrong.
Then you speak of one God, one faith, one baptism and wide and narrow roads (I don't wanna copy the quotes here, we all know the scripture good enough and too many quotes render the post unreadable).
You also speak of people justifiying themselves before God, which is of course not a good thing. I guess we all agree on that.
Then you speak of God's truth setting us free, and I think most here know what you are talking about as we are all Christians, which would mean that God has revealed the truth to us and thus, we are all indeed free. I see not how this is related to the question in the beginning.
After that you speak a lot about false philosophies and the spirit showing us truth. Still I must say, yes and Amen to the spirit showing us the way tec, but I still do not see how this is in any way related with the question in the beginning.
You speak about the one church of Christ, and I think there is no christian of whichever denomination, that would disagree with you here. Christ does not have plenty bodies but only one, His church. I still don't get your point. What is wrong with different organizations across the earth where members of the one church assemble and have fellowship? The body of Christ is indeed not reduced to one sect or denomination, an Amen to that. But are you saying that one has to be without any denominational, congregational or whatever membership (and thus without meeting your christian brothers and sisters) in order to be a true Christian? Do we have to stay alone and without congregation because no one congregation can say that they have the monopoly on the body of Christ?
You speak of God adding people to the church, and again, I agree with you. There is nothing that we can do ourselves, I agree with you that we have no free will on this question, it is either God grabbing us and adding us to His church, or we remain blind.
I agree with you that there are no unsaved in the body of Christ. How could there be? But I still see not the connection to the primal question about tolerance in worshipping, sorry.
So after reading your port I have not found an answer to the question you put up and said you would answer. Maybe it's only me, but still, I ask you kindly to tell me what you wanted to say. I see no argument that you have brought foward is speaking against tolerance. I see no reason why one congregation should not have their hands risen above their heads while praying, and others having their hands folded and maybe being on knees while praying. I am really confused, and I mean a great bit. Please clear up things.
Really? The judge not card? I am shocked!! Not really. If you don't know the difference between judgment and discernment I suggest you revisit your dictionary. I have not made any judgmental or condemning remarks about you but rather I have discerned that you would rather bring divisive and argumentative attitudes to the forum rather than actually discuss your views verses others' views that's all.
It is obvious from many of your posts that you have come here with an agenda rather than with the idea of edifying and teaching us something. As for me personally I have studied in Bible college, seminary and at several seminars and home groups. I have studied the Scriptures, Church traditions, Jewish history and apologetics for nearly 50 years. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. I have been a facilitator of several counseling ministries and Bible studies as well as spent countless hours in personal study. I have been beaten for my faith, persecuted by the church for my beliefs and excommunicated for standing up for the Truth. I am hardly a person that has a house built on sand and I know the difference between loving counsel and intolerant dogma. (That would be discernment and not judgment)
I would think that a man of wisdom would understand from the comments on this thread that he has touched a few nerves and perhaps, in your wisdom, you should recognize the need to rethink your approach here. Yet you continue to defend a position that you failed to even define in your original post. So really, who is the intolerant one here?
One last thing Thunder, I have notice you and most of the others on here instead of using scripture to give your side of things, it seems you and others find it easier to impugn the messenger rather than the message or most of you say you can't understand what I'm giving, and I have no problem with that if that was all you did. It's the impugnable attitude I find here with many of you that is such a waste of time to even reply to. Those that give a sincere reply and there has been a few, those I will reply to as time permits.
John 8:47 �He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Thunder, here is a good verse for you and I and the readers to well remember.
Galatians 6:7 �Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Does that sound like a tolerant God?
So Thunder, I'm waiting for you to use some scripture with your accusations, if you have some, I would love to read them. Thanks, Gary
If God was not tolerant, He would not have died for us and we would all be going to hell.
There is a difference between tolerating (tolare = lat. to bear) a thing and saying it was good.
God doesn't approve most things we do as good, but I've never met anybody that would bear more than He does. Maybe I'm not getting your point.
And sorry for not giving scripture verses. I don't know scripture by heart as you do, and anything I would give now would most probably be taken out of context. But I've read the bible, I know He died for our sins, and I know He bears our sinfullness though He is never getting tired to show us the way out.
Come on, folks....is there anything else left? This conversation isn't and hasn't been edifying at all. Should we really continue? I say we dust our feet off and not fall into his attempts at division any longer. There's no fruit in it.
How about we start a few new, civil discussions that actually get positive things accomplished? Enough of the negative! If the Admin aren't going to assist us, we have to take matters into our own hands, however sad that may be... Ignore the trouble-makers, let's have good, enjoyable fellowship!
Today was such a beautiful day!! I've been at work, and we were pretty busy, but I'm thankful we were because that means I was able to be outside quite a bit! :)
It would have been a choice day to go out and take some photos of God's natural beauty He's given us freely! I absolutely LOVE going out and finding those wonderful shots!! It's so relaxing! Plus, I feel like He tells me what He wants me to shoot! That's an awesome feeling!!
