Lev 27:32 And all the tithe of the herd and of the flock, all that passes under the rod, a tenth shall be holy to Jehovah;
Walter: If the Law was done away with what replaced it?
If the Law was done away with then why are we taught to obey the Ten Commandments?
If the Law was done away with why did the Papacy say they changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday, not by the authority of Scriptures but by their own authority?
If the Law was done away with why did Jesus expect his disciples to continue keeping Passover (1Co 11:25 as often, or whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup) and why did the disciples continue keeping Pentecost? Acts 2:1; 20:16, 1 Cor 16:8, Lev 23:15)
I think you are mistaken about the law being replaced. Jesus said, Mat 5:17 Do not think that I came to annul the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to annul, but to fulfill.
Jesus kept the law perfectly and amended it with a New Covenant sealed in His blood rather than the Old that was sealed with the blood of bulls and goats. The old sacrifices atoned for sin but Jesus sacrifice brought redemption which is more than atonement. (Heb. 9)
Let me ask this again. But first let's examine something Jesus said. This is a key to understanding what Christians are commanded to teach.
Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe ALL THINGS THAT I HAVE COMMANDED YOU; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
So what did Jesus command? THAT we are to teach all the things that Jesus taught DIRECTLY to the Apostles. Not the crowds, not the Pharisees and Scribes. It is important to understand the Grammatical Hermeneutic here. If you miss this and don't get what Jesus is saying then, like so many other Christians, you will not grasp what applies to us as Christians and what doesn't. If we as Christians could grasp this teaching then many False Doctrines would vanish.
Now.....if you will go into the Gospels and locate the things that Jesus commanded the Apostles..... personally. This will take some time but you will be greatly blessed! While you are doing this then try to locate where Jesus specifically commanded the Apostles that "Tithing" was REQUIRED for Christians.
If you are telling anyone that tithing is required for Christians and you cannot prove from Jesus' own words that He said so then you are in direct disobedience to Christ Jesus.
One other thing to think about for now. In the beginning of Christ's church, the Leaders were of course being taught by the Holy Spirit and they were still developing some theological understanding. An issue came up regarding GENTILES and "The Law"/ Mosaic Covenant. Look at the conclusion they came to.
(Acts 15:23-24) �The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings,
Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, �You must be circumcised *** AND KEEP THE LAW� � TO WHOM WE GAVE NO SUCH COMMANDMENT � it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth.
For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you NO GREATER BURDEN THAN THESE NECESSARY THINGS: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.� .
Hold it right here. Did you get that? Please do not miss this. Do you see that the Apostles and the Elders of the Churches made a definitive statement? Do you see the conclusion they made? GENTILES were never commanded to be circumcised ....(wait for it).... AND KEEP THE LAW. Then look at what they were commanded to do or abstain from. In that short list above we do not see anything about "Tithing" or keeping "The Law" / Mosaic Covenant or keeping "The Sabbath". No such language. WHY do you suppose that was/is?
Because GENTILES were never under the Mosaic Covenant/The Law to begin with.
Deut 5:1-3
1 And Moses called ALL***** ISRAEL****, and said unto THEM, Hear, O ISRAEL, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that YE may learn them, and keep, and do them.
2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3 The LORD made NOT this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.(KJV)
The Mosaic Covenant was exclusive to Israel, not the World. Let's continue.
Act 21:18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. (this was a big event. brackets mine)
19 When he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law;
21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
22 What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come.
23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow.
24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law.
25 BUT CONCERNING THE GENTILES who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe NO SUCH THING, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality."
Again we see that GENTILES were never commanded to Keep "the Law"/ The Mosaic Covenant.
Heya, I listened to a great teaching on this subject called "God's plan for giving" by John MacArthur, best Ive ever heard , Btw the tithes in the old testament worked out at around %33 and where used for the running of Israel, they where part of the Mosaic law, basically like the tax's implemented by the authoritys God has put in place to govern us:) Would love to hear anyone's feedback if they take the time to listen to the above sermon, it can be found at sermonaudio if anyone's interested:)
matthew 22:36-40 36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
37 Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
i dont believe that the ten commandments are gone and done away with... i believe they are written in our hearts and minds .. theyre also still written in word so one can go back and see em again and again for refreshment if needed..
i think what youll find is that from JESUS s own words as to what the two greatest commandments were ..i think youll find that if we do the two greatest HE asked of us ,then we will love GOD as commanded and we will of fulfilled the ten commandments and any laws that are well and good for us and our neighbors.
back to tithin, , givin of ones first fruits to me is part of lovin our neighbor as ourselves...
if i were to argue over me giving 10 % id have to ask ole cattle just where is the cheerful giver in that? hehe
Walter ~ Could you please find in Scripture and Prove that JESUS* said NOT to Tithe..???
Please lets not discuss this on-going jumping topic of OLD an New Covenant on this tread. :zzzz:
The question is do you Tithe (Church) and is it ok to Give else where...
GOD's "WORD" has already been quoted previously by other Brethren...so I will not re-quote.
We are to Give 10% to GOD. Church/Temple... I Tithe 10% of all that crosses my Hand...because GOD's WORD says so...
All other as also stated previously are Gifts/Offerings to be given an used by whome ever, for what ever, when ever. And yes it is OK to do so...When we give, that is the Blessing...And may Father GOD pour out His Blessins on All of ya...
You said: "Walter ~ Could you please find in Scripture and Prove that JESUS* said NOT to Tithe..???
WALTER: Sorry but that is not a valid argument. It's the same bad argument that Sabbath Keepers use like this one: "Well show me where Jesus said NOT to keep the Sabbath". An argument from silence is not a good argument.
The fact is that for those who teach that "Tithing" is a requirement, they have the burden of proof.
If you cannot find a scripture where Jesus specifically commanded the Apostles to "Tithe" then you have no basis for telling others that they are required to tithe and furthermore you would be in direct disobedience to Jesus Himself according to Mat 28:20.
JUDE: "Please lets not discuss this on-going jumping topic of OLD an New Covenant on this tread."
WALTER: This is not a jumping of topic as it is directly related to the issue of what was required as a commandment under the Mosaic Covenant is no longer a requirement under the NEW Covenant. Regardless... as I have already proven, GENTILES were never under the Mosaic Covenant, only Jews were.
JUDE: "We are to Give 10% to GOD. Church/Temple... I Tithe 10% of all that crosses my Hand...because GOD's WORD says so..."
WALTER: Jude, if you are going to tell people that they have to give "10% to GOD because you think God's Word says so...then the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate with clear scripture in ****the NEW TESTAMENT,**** where Jesus "commanded" it to be done. If you cannot do that then with all do respect my Sister you are placing a requirement upon someone without any Biblical reason to do so.
Now if you want to distinguish between "Tithing" which is "obligation" and "Giving" from one's heart of which there is no "obligation"; 2Corinthians 9:6 & 7, then that would be the best direction. :glow:
With all due respect, I am not going to play that game with you. I have asked very pointed questions that need to be addressed first. I will also be interested in seeing if you could demonstrate where I violated Hermeneutics.
Once you have done so then I will continue with you. :angel:
