Author Thread: Mosaic Covenant. Was it done away and replaced?
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Mosaic Covenant. Was it done away and replaced?
Posted : 9 Feb, 2010 12:19 AM

Hi Everyone,

Someone just asked me about this issue and so I am bringing it up again. I did this once before but it is many pages back.



The Mosaic Law/Covenant was a specific Covenant given exclusively to Israel and was never binding upon mankind as a whole. This has been a source of confusion among Christians. Let's look at to whom the Mosaic Covenant was given to.

Exod 31:16-18

16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.(KJV)

Deut 5:1-3

1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

(KJV) [Moses them recounted the 10 Commandments in the following verses].

We see clearly from these statements that the Old Covenant, and particularly the 10 Commandments, were NOT universal laws binding on all mankind since creation, but were specific to Israel, from the days of Moses onward. So are the Ten Commandments part of the Mosaic Covenant?

Exod 34:28

28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

(KJV)

Deut 4:13

13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

(KJV)



So we see from the above scriptures that the Ten Commandments are in fact "The Covenant" or let's say the centerpiece of the Mosaic Covenant. There is also no difference between the terms Mosaic Covenant, Old Covenant, The Law and The Mosaic Law and the Law of Moses. They are all the same thing. The Bible makes no distinction.

Now when Jesus came He came to give us a New Covenant via His sacrifice for us. It is through His sacrifice in which we are able to be grafted into the Jewish New Covenant and inherit the blessings of entering the Kingdom of God.

Jer 31:31-32

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (KJV)

It must be emphasized that this NEW Covenant is NOT a Gentile Covenant but a Jewish Covenant given to Israel First and then we who are Gentiles can be "grafted into" this Jewish Covenant. Jesus gave the New Covenant to His Apostles who are the 12 representatives of the 12 tribes of Israel in whom the Promise of this NEW Covenant was promised by God.

So now that we have a New and better Covenant, what happened to the Old one? It was completely done away with and replaced. You cannot have two covenants running at the same time. That defeats the purpose of the New one.



Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH�

9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.

10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.

12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."



Now look what Paul says next about the New and Old Covenants.



13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first OBSOLETE. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to VANISH AWAY.



Paul said that the first Covenant, the Mosaic Covenant, has been made "obsolete" and that it was ready to "vanish away". Why is that?

Because The New Covenant that was promised by God has now come into being. God fulfilled His promise to Israel that He made in Jeremiah 31:31. He was going to make a New Covenant and it was not going to based upon the Old Mosaic Covenant. It was going to be something entirely new.



Heb 10:8-10

8 Above when he said, "Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law";

9 Then said he, "Lo, I come to do thy will, O God." He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (KJV)



In verse 9 above we have clear language that demonstrates that God took away the Mosaic Covenant so that He may establish the Second Covenant.



Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;



Above in Ephesians 2:14 we see that Jesus Christ "abolished" the Law of commandments contained in ordinances. What are those? Those are all the Laws contained in the Mosaic Covenant. All 613 of them which includes the original Ten Commandments. Does this mean that we can now murder and commit adultery? Of course not. Jesus implemented God's "Moral Principles" in the New Covenant which is also known as "The Law of Christ". It is important to distinguish between God's "Moral Principles" and the laws themselves. In part two I will address the New Covenant, The Law of Christ. Before I do I would like for you to examine the situation that the Early Church was having regarding the Gentiles and how the leaders of the Church came to the theological conclusion that the Gentile Christians were never under "the Mosaic Law" and were never bound to any of it's requirements.



(Acts 15:23-24) �The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings,

Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, �You must be circumcised and keep the law� � to whom we gave no such commandment � it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth.

For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.� .



Act 21:18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present.

19 When he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law;

21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.

22 What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come.

23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow.

24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law.

25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality."



Blessings!

Walter

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Mosaic Covenant. Was it done away and replaced?
Posted : 11 Feb, 2010 08:20 AM

dear seek,

your words here

and those you taught will have less harshness of punishment than you...your the one indoctrinated not me...lies...all lies..



mine here

i understand that youre very passionate about what you believe.. and thats well and good.. but to call a man a liar thats not very nice. and very insulting.. and very much against the rules here..

so im askin you please to keep it civil and make your points and speak your beliefs without that kind of stuff..



lets everyone remember to keep it civil and not to make it personal..no personal insults.. just speak our beliefs and counter what someone we dont agree with ,with our reasons we dont believe as them.. but not go callin names and adding insults to others..

your cooperation is appreciated.

ole cattle

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Mosaic Covenant. Was it done away and replaced?
Posted : 11 Feb, 2010 11:14 AM

Seek,



Thank you for your candor in admitting that you believe it is necessary to keep the Mosaic Laws in order to be saved. That is a serious admission but one I thought you would make and one the scriptures speak directly against.



There was a great concern Paul had for the Christians in Galatia. Jews were going around and telling them that it was not sufficient to have Faith in Christ but that they also needed to "KEEP THE LAW, The Mosaic Covenant. In other words they were preaching that Christ's finished work on the cross was not sufficient. Paul called this teaching "ANOTHER GOSPEL" and warned them of the danger of being deceived by these False Teachers. The term for them is called "Judaizers". Let's examine what Paul had to say.



Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead),

2 and all the brethren who are with me, To the churches of Galatia:

3 Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ,

4 who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,

5 to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.

6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,

7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.



Paul used some strong language here in saying that these Jews who were presenting "Another Gospel" should be "accursed". He said it twice for emphasis.



Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?

15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,

16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

17 "But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not!

18 For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.

20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."



Do you see the clear teachings here. Paul was making a case, laying again the foundation that salvation comes only through Jesus Christ and not through "The LAW".



Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?

2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?�

3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

4 Have you suffered so many things in vain�if indeed it was in vain?

5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?



Paul called the Galatians "Foolish" and that they had been..."BEWITCHED". Strong language here addressing this issue. Again Paul stressed that it is a matter of FAITH and not works of the LAW.



Watch now as Paul explains what the purpose of the LAW was but also what happened to the LAW.



Gal 3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions,... TILL...the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.



The Law was intended to only remain "TILL" the "SEED" should come. The "seed" is CHRIST.



Gal 3:24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.



Paul explained above that "the LAW" was a tudor to bring us to Christ but that after Christ came, we are no longer under a tutor. In other words you are no longer under the LAW/The Mosaic Covenant.



26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.



We are all sons of God HOW? Through FAITH in Christ. Did he say Faith in Christ AND keeping the Torah? NO! Through FAITH.



27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.



Here we see that it is THROUGH BAPTISM we put on Christ. [This is another discussion. ;-) ]



28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.



Because we have "put on Christ", we have become Abraham's seed and heirs to all that God promised Abraham. Let's continue.



Gal 4:19 My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you,

20 I would like to be present with you now and to change my tone; for I have doubts about you.



Paul was very concerned for their salvation. He had doubts about their Faith and if they had been totally deceived. Noticed how he wished he could change his tone. He was been very tough on these people because of the heresy being taught there.

Please don't miss this next important point he makes below.



21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?

22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise,

24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar�



Paul is now breaking this down through an analogy of the two different covenant. The Mosaic, which is what Sinai refers to and the other one which is of Christ. Watch.



25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children�

26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written: "REJOICE, O BARREN, YOU WHO DO NOT BEAR! BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR! FOR THE DESOLATE HAS MANY MORE CHILDREN THAN SHE WHO HAS A HUSBAND."

Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.

Gal 4:29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREEWOMAN."

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.



In other words we as Christians are not under bondage of the Mosaic Covenant but we are free because we are under the New Covenant.



Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.



He says above that you are not to go back under THE LAW; The Mosaic Covenant. Do not place yourself under bondage!



2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.

3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.



This is a serious point here. Don't miss this. Paul was giving an "EXAMPLE" of circumcision in that if you keep just one part of the Mosaic Covenant/ The LAW, then you are obligated to keep ALL of it. He just used circumcision as an example. If you think you have to keep the Sabbath then you are obligated to keep the WHOLE LAW, ALL of it, no exception, all 613 LAWS. That is a yoke of bondage the Judaizers would have you be under. Now look at the danger of what occurs for those who believe and teach that you must keep the TORAH, The LAW.



4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.



Nothing could be more serious. Becoming estranged from Christ means you have abandoned Christ. APOSTASY! Forfeiture of salvation. That is also what it means to have "Fallen from Grace".



5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

7 You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth?

8 This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you.

9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump.



I hope you see the seriousness in this. The real potential danger and why it is so important to have a firm foundation in the true Gospel so you will not be BEWITCHED into believing another Gospel that actually takes you away from Christ. This is of the Devil and you need to be on guard against it.



Rom 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,



Grace to you all!

In Christ Jesus,

Walter

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daniel12345

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Mosaic Covenant. Was it done away and replaced?
Posted : 12 Feb, 2010 05:10 PM

If Law can be done away and replaced, then,



God's word is no longer everlasting (contradict with Luke 16:17, Luke 21:33),



transgression of the law is no longer a sin and since there is no sin, there is no need for salvation (contrary to 1 John 3:4, Romans 4:15),



there will be no new covenant (contrary to Jeremiah 31:31-34).



The mosaic covenant is not about Law only. Covenant is not equal to Law.

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Mosaic Covenant. Was it done away and replaced?
Posted : 14 Feb, 2010 10:24 PM

Daniel,



The Mosaic Covenant and "The Law" are one and the same. There is no separation. They are interchangeable terms.



Exod 34:28

28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

(KJV)

Deut 4:13

13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

(KJV)



So we see from the above scriptures that the Ten Commandments are in fact "The Covenant" or let's say the centerpiece of the Mosaic Covenant. In actuality all 613 Laws are included as being the Mosaic Covenant/Mosaic Law/The Law/The Law of Moses.



Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH�

9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.

10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.

12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."



Now look what Paul says next about the New and Old Covenants.



13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first ***obsolete.*** Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to *** vanish away. ***



Paul said that the first Covenant, the Mosaic Covenant, has been made "obsolete" and that it was ready to "vanish away". Why is that? Because The New Covenant that was promised by God has now come into being. God fulfilled His promise to Israel that He made in Jeremiah 31:31. He was going to make a New Covenant and it was not going to based upon the Old Mosaic Covenant. It was going to be something entirely new.



Heb 10:8-10

8 Above when he said, "Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law";

9 Then said he, "Lo, I come to do thy will, O God."

*****He taketh away the first, *****that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (KJV)



In verse 9 above we have clear language that demonstrates that God took away the Mosaic Covenant so that He may establish the Second Covenant.



Grace to you!

In Christ,

Walter

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daniel12345

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Mosaic Covenant. Was it done away and replaced?
Posted : 15 Feb, 2010 09:03 AM

Hi Walter,



First of all, you never really address the contradictory verses which I pointed out if ever the Law is to be done away.



You obviously do not understand why there is fault in the old covenant. (Perhaps you should check up the meaning of covenant and the meaning of Law. We can do away with the covenant but not the Law and vice versa. ) It is because the old covenant do not offer salvation but the new one does. The old only point out sin but not the remission of sin. The new one does. Therefore the Law in the old covenant is not done away because:



"Your righteousness is everlasting and your law is true."

Psalm 119:142



"All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal."

Psalm 119:160



Which clearly stated an everlasting law since it uses "is".



The new covenant stated that law is still valid as in



"This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel

after that time, declares the Lord.

I will put my laws in their minds

and write them on their hearts.

I will be their God, "

Hebrews 8:10



You must able to reconcile all the verses I pointed out with your theory before you can say the Law is being done away.

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DontHitThatMark

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Mosaic Covenant. Was it done away and replaced?
Posted : 15 Feb, 2010 11:51 AM

...I still think it makes perfect sense that the 10 commandments are at the center of both covenants. Laws concerning sacrifices, circumcision, feast days...are no longer required, and in the mosaic covenant they were required and breaking them was considered sin under penalty of death in some cases...so something changed because the new testament constantly talks about how those things are not necessary anymore. The mosaic covenant focused on an outward example of "holiness". They sacrificed animals to cover sin. They did all kinds of outward things to be "holy". You can tie just about every single old covenant outward law, to a new covenant spiritual example. The mosaic law/covenant changed into the new covenant spiritual law after the death of Jesus. It just makes sense to me that the old covenant was basically an object lesson pointing to the spiritual things to come. BUT! I don't think it's a good idea to start trying to throw out the 10 commandments with the mosaic law. God kept His own commands before He wrote them down for us...and I'm sure He kept it even before He created us. I believe the 10 commandments have always been God's eternal moral law, and OF COURSE He would include them in BOTH covenants...which would explain the references in the new testament to a "law" we are supposed to keep. Anyway...I'm probably making it confusing....but it all just seems to fall together in my mind...wish I could explain it better...





:peace::peace:

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Mosaic Covenant. Was it done away and replaced?
Posted : 16 Feb, 2010 12:58 PM

:zzzz:

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