Author	Thread: What is Arminian Theology?
Admin	What is Arminian Theology? Posted : 19 Oct, 2009 11:53 AM Hi Everyone, Let's examine what Arminian theology is from an Arminian and not the typical twisted view espoused by Calvinists. The Five Arminian Articles of Remonstrance I.That God, by an eternal and unchangeable purpose in Jesus Christ His Son, before the foundations of the world were laid, determined to save, out of the human race which had fallen into sin, in Christ, for Christ's sake and through Christ, those who through the grace of the Holy Spirit shall believe on the same His Son and shall through the same grace persevere in this same faith and obedience of faith even to the end; and on the other hand to leave under sin and wrath the contumacious and unbelieving and to condemn them as aliens from Christ, according to the word of the Gospel in John 3:36, and other passages of Scripture. II.That, accordingly, Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the world, died for all men and for every man, so that He has obtained for all, by His death on the cross, reconciliation and remission of sins; yet so that no one is partaker of this remission except the believers [John 3:16; 1 John 2:2]. III.That man has not saving grace of himself, nor of the working of his own free-will, inasmuch as in his state of apostasy and sin he can for himself and by himself think nothing that is good � nothing, that is, truly good, such as saving faith is, above all else. But that it is necessary that by God, in Christ and through His Holy Spirit he be born again and renewed in understanding, affections and will and in all his faculties, that he may be able to understand, think, will, and perform what is truly good, according to the Word of God [John 15:5]. IV.That this grace of God is the beginning, the progress and the end of all good; so that even the regenerate man can neither think, will nor effect any good, nor withstand any temptation to evil, without grace precedent (or prevenient), awakening, following and co-operating. So that all good deeds and all movements towards good that can be conceived in through must be ascribed to the grace of God in Christ. But with respect to the mode of operation, grace is not irresistible; for it is written of many that they resisted the Holy Spirit [Acts 7 and elsewhere passim]. V.That those who are grafted into Christ by a true faith, and have thereby been made partakers of His life-giving Spirit, are abundantly endowed with power to strive against Satan, sin, the world and their own flesh, and to win the victory; always, be it understood, with the help of the grace of the Holy Spirit, with Jesus Christ assisting them in all temptations, through His Spirit; stretching out His hand to them and (providing only that they are themselves prepared for the fight, that they entreat His aid and do not fail to help themselves) propping and upbuilding them so that by no guile or violence of Satan can they be led astray or plucked from Christ's hands [John 10:28]. But for the question whether they are not able through sloth or negligence to forsake the beginning of their life in Christ, to embrace again this present world, to depart from the holy doctrine once delivered to them, to lose their good conscience and to neglect grace--this must be the subject of more exact inquiry in the Holy Scriptures, before we can teach it with full confidence of our mind. ____________________________________ When we examine historical records of the Ante-Nicene Fathers, these are the writers of the first 300 years of the Early Church, some of which were the direct personal disciples of John the Apostle and Paul, we find some interesting things. 1) All of the ideas and concepts and theology of what we call Arminian Theology today can be found in the Early Church. This is what was handed down by the Apostles to their Disciples. This is irrefutable. 2) What we cannot find are any of the ideas, concepts and theology of Calvinism, not a one. None of them! Nothing of what John Calvin taught can be found prior to St. Augustine. Even "Perseverance of the Saints" was a new invention of Calvin. Prior to the 1500s Once Saved Always Saved simply did not exist. It is a man made theology. Blessings! In Christ, Walter Post Reply
View Profile History	What is Arminian Theology? Posted : 21 Oct, 2009 06:51 PM Hi Walter, So are you saying that Jacob Arminus' writngs influenced the Ante-(Early Church) Father's wrinting? This is how I read and understand what you've written ... and I'm just wondering how this could be since Arminus didn't do his writings until somewhere around the 14 or 15 century. If you read what I posted I think its on page 1 or 2, you will find information about the early church fathers and their writings, and website information. I stll have not figured out the importance of your point as it relates to a person's salvation. As I've said, and so have others, neither Arminism nor Calvinism have anything to do with a person's salvation....I take that back, it does have something to do with a person's salvation, many are being lost following after man's theology, instead of following after the gospel of Jesus Christ. The early church fathers followed the teachings that were taught to them by Paul and the other apostles, which was NOT their theology, but were the teachings of the doctrine of Christ, and the salvation plan of God our Fathe. Paul even warns us that if anyone comes to us teaching another doctrine or anpother Jesus who is our salvation, to avoid them. Yes, theology is good, but the gospel is GREATER! I agree with Cattle, and Dave, and all the rest, man's theology is not the way to salvation and is only important to those who have chosen to study it and try to figure out the mind of God.. And I also know that a person must understand in the writings of thses men of God whom God has chosen to translation and interpert His divine word, in order to know the difference between false teachings and the truth of God's word. I also realize that many people are being led astray by false teachers and man made-up theology, that is not based on what God has written, and thus many are making up their OWN doctrine based upon thier own theology. The bible also tells us that God added to the church three thousand soul, not because of the disciples' theology, but because they were teaching the people the doctrine of Jesus Christ (His attributes, HIs mercy, His grace, His character, His redemptive power) and in fellowship with them breaking bread together, and in prayer. (Acts chapter 2: verses 41-42). The Apostle doctrine was the proper teachings of the scripture without error, the etaching of Arminus and Calvin is with many errors.. What is the purpose of trying to convience somebody that Arminus and his theology about what he thought God was saying, is corrrect, and the early church followed the same ideas and concepts?. Arminus also made many mistakes in his thoelogy and what he preceived what God was saying in the scriptures., as did Calvin. They were mere men trying to get it right ,as they were led, and in some cases missed the point, just as we all do.. Moreover, If more time is spent discussing the doctrine of Jesus Christ and the Apostle's doctrine, I think there would be more people even so on this board who would be more apt to be saved and drawn near to God through Jesus Christ in these discussions. I enjoy Calvin and Arminus' writings, but I allow the Holy Spirit to direct my mind and thoughts as to what God is saying in scriopture... I've read many mistakes in Arminus' wrintings and Calvins, and when reading the scriture, God reveals something completely different to me. Doesn't mean Arminus or Calvin's interpretations are false teaching, they just made mistakes in hearing what the Holy Spirit was saying. My hope isn't based on Arminus or Calvin, but on Jesus Christ, just as the others have stated. God's word is so very simple to understand for those who wich to understand it, so I just can't figure out why man in all of his finite glory, think they have all the answers as to what God is thinking and saying in scripture, over someone else who is also in touch with God through the reading and studying of His Word? Can't figure it out. Sure, we as Christians should know who these men of God were, and know their writngs so we can discern what is correct and what isn't... but not to the point of basing ones hope of glry on what they have to say about salvation, election or predestination. A person's salvation is not based on their writings, its based on what Jesus completed on the cross. And this is most important for everyone to know. The early church and the church of the 20th century, never heard of Arminus or Calvin, all they knew was Jesus, Jesus, Jesus... so what's up with the thought that Arminus writings are so great and our salvation is based on what he has written, that he THINKs God has said or is saying in scripture? His writings are not the gospel of Jesus Christ by which we, as Christians have be commissioned to go and teach and preach...so waaassssup with the repeat of Arminus and Calvin questions all saying the same thing.... just wondering and asking When will we discuss something about Jesus Christ, like what does it mean to just know Jesus?:purpleangel: For those interested in reading what all the fuss is about regarding the Ante-Fathers writings, check out this website.. The Ante-Fathers' writings were all according to what Paul and the other apostles had taught them and most of the writings are taken from Pauls writings. Praise God everybody for the Early Chruch Fathers!:party::yay::applause:...tae up the offering Cattleman, let's hear a song Dave:purpleangel::rocknroll: www.biblestudy.churches.net/CCEL/FATHERS2/INDEX.HTM Post Reply
View Profile History	What is Arminian Theology? Posted : 21 Oct, 2009 06:55 PM Oh, Yeah... The five points of Arminus and the five points of Calvin don't mean a doggone thing, if a person hasn't made the FIRST STEP toward Jesus Christ for the remissiomn of their sins!:applause::glow::peace::dancingp: Post Reply
View Profile History	What is Arminian Theology? Posted : 22 Oct, 2009 05:24 AM These days I don't even like to talk about the five points, I only want to talk about ONE of them. Total depravity. If they will NOT accept what the Bible says about fallen man, then what is the point of continuing the conversation other than to keep your own skills sharp? Most modern Christians have a radically higher view of man than what the Bible plainly says, and if they are walking around with a view of man that would fit nicely in a hallmark card, then ALL of the five points just seems unfair to them. In Christ, Steve Post Reply
View Profile History	What is Arminian Theology? Posted : 22 Oct, 2009 06:18 AM I think the biggest problem people have with accepting the doctrines of grace is that they are really attached to their own "free will".Especially Americans.We are so lucky in this country to have been "graced" with so much free will in this country that we think it should extend throughout the universe,LOL When will Christians wake up and realize that this is gods universe and he does what he wills,I mean the entire Bible is one big exercise in gods sovereign choices,I dont get how this is so hard for people to get!!! Was jesus surprised when they crucified him, was our father shocked when satan rebelled or when eve ate the apple Or when the famine came that drove josephs brothers to him ,wich in turn led the jews into captivity,so they could be led out by moses,so God could deliver his law.....ECT. hmmm...seems like god chose the jews,but arminians dont have a problem with this. of course his sovereign will could never reach us here in the 21 century,I mean we are above all that,......yeah sure LOL In Christ Steve Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	What is Arminian Theology? Posted : 22 Oct, 2009 09:26 AM Yep, you're right...total depravity is what your belief system is based on. A very shaky doctrine with not mush to stand on in my opinion. The point is though...there are beings in God's universe that are not depraved. BUT Satan's rebellion had brought up a question about God's authority and not just Satan, but 1/3 of the entire inhabitants of heaven fell. You're going to tell me God did that on purpose to His un-depraved beings? Or that He just knew it would happen and didn't interfere with His created beings free will. I believe He let it happen to settle the question once and for all. So for all those non-depraved beings that still have free will to choose good or evil like Satan did...God allowed this to happen. He didn't MAKE it happen. The question about the good will of God was settled at the cross. There was no question left. God is a God of mercy, love, and justice that will do anything....including a death on a cross...to give His creation a second chance. I'm sorry, but that is the God I see in the bible. Not one with a "created beings" chess set that forces them to do His will. The bible is full of verses that say "call on me and I will answer", "open the door and I will come in", "believe and you will be saved", "seek and you shall find", "have faith and you will be saved", "whosoever believes in His name will be saved"....like we have free-will. And don't get me wrong. I don't believe depraved humans would ever come to God of their own free will. That's what the Holy Spirit/Bible/Preaching is for. To convict us of our sin, and lead us to God. But I must have skipped the part of the bible that says we're forced into salvation. :peace::peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	What is Arminian Theology? Posted : 22 Oct, 2009 10:32 AM Amen, Steve & Mark... man has the notion that he has total control and power over himself without God, and these are they who really think they also have equal knowledge to God....because they are "little gods", equal to Him in all things. Most of the "little god" notion is based on the misinterpretation of what Jesus said..."greater things than these shall you do... man is limited in his knowledge of God." This did not give us equal knowledge to Him. Man's theology is only man's theory as to what man's thinks God has spoken or it might be... the word of God is open and clear for all to know and understand. It's man who is making the understanding of God's word difficult based on his own theories of what man THINKS God means/meant by such and such scripture. Its man who refuses to submit himself totally to God, and has a need to project his own thoughts into God's spoken word and not be led by the Holy Spirit into understanding the Word.... Man tends to move the focus from himself in those things that are pointing to his own inability to know God as He is, and settle for, just knowing ABOUT God. God said study HIS WORD of TRUTH to show yourself approved BY GOD, this is so that, we can rightly divide the word of truth to the teaching and preaching of His divine word for the prupose of compalling the lost to Christ... can't find wherein we are instructed to study man's words to show yourself approved by man, just to be approved by men's theology ... Paul nor the disciples taught theology, they taught Jesus from a personal experience and the Old Testament of the prophets being lead by the Holy Spirit. Many theologians are self proclaimed, although I don't think this was the intent or case with Calvin or Aeminus when they wrote ther writings. I do believe they were indeed men of God, but, in some points got it wrong. But, since their times, just as with God's holy scriptures, many learned (college) theologian ( some man whom God has not called) have added their own thoughts and interptations to the Word of truth, even to what Calvin and Arminus have written, wrongly dividing not only God's word, but that of these men of God. One thing that is never changing: The blood of Jesus Christ was accepted and approved by God, as the complete and satisfying sacrifice for ALL human sin and established the means for the whole world to be brought back to God. And the complete benefit of this sacrifice is available to ALL (everyone) who receives and accepts this sacrifice BY FAITH as a provision for sin, based on God's love, grace, and mercy. And no man can argue that! Post Reply
View Profile History	What is Arminian Theology? Posted : 22 Oct, 2009 11:20 AM Man is totally depraved! He is corrupt and tends to corrupt God's word with his own thought process. God created man, man didn't create himself or God. So what would make man think they are not depraved, there is nothing good man can do (not one work or works) to impress God. In Roman chapter 3, Paul lays out man's filty depraved condition in God's eye sight, wherein God has fourteen indictments against man which proves man's totaly depravity, without excuse there is universal gulit. ALL OF MANKIND STANDS guilty before God for their sins, and when we look at the purpose of the law (Ten Commandment) we see that we ALL are proven guilty and are totally depraved (corrupt), and are totally guilty, and the only "totally" things that can change this is to totally REPENT of our sins! This is the purpose of the law, to convict us, reveal our sins, it never justified us Romans chapter 3:verses 9-18. Look at what Paul says, "WHAT THEN? ARE WE BETTER THAN THE JEWS? Not at all. For we have previously charged both the Jews and (ALL) Gentiles that they are ALL under sin. (BTW< if you're not a Jew, you are a Gentile, for those who may think they are excempt) lol... INDICTMENTS AGAINST MAN: 1) There is none (no one) who is righteous, no not one. 2) There is none (not one) that UNDERSTANDS. 3) There is none(no one who seeks after God. 4) They have ALL gone out of the way. 5) They have together become unprofitable. 6) There is none who does good, no not one. 7) Their throat is an open tomb. 8) With their tongues they have practiced deceit. 9) The poison of asps is under their lips. 10) Their mouth is full of cursing and bitterness. 11) Their feet are swift to shed blood. 12) Destruction and misery are on thier way. 13) The way of p[eace they have not known. 14) There is no fear of God before their eyes. Paul goes on to say, "Now we know that whatever the law says, it says it to those who are UNDER the law, so that every mouth may be STOPPED, and ALL the world may become guilty before God. Therefore, by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in God's sight for by the law, the knowledge of sin is broought forth." So, looking at the indictment Paul lays out, how in the world can anyone think they are not corrupt and totally depraved. In need of a Savior. Man can't save himself from himself. We all fall short of Go'ds glory because of our personal sins aginst others, and for sure, against God. Man is incapable of providing saving grace which only comes from and by the power of God to save. What can man do to justify himself of sin? NOT ONE THING! Because man is corrupt, suffers from totaly depravity, unable to saved himself... Jesus paid it all for all. Of course, if anyone cannot see themselves in any of the 14 indictments Paul has pointed out. Then somebody needs to speak out and tell the rest of us how its done, so we too, can be white as snow... :purpleangel: Post Reply
View Profile History	What is Arminian Theology? Posted : 22 Oct, 2009 12:18 PM Ella, I don't know how to make it any more clear for you as to what I said which you have not understood. Let me try this again. When you examine the Ante-Nicene Fathers, when you examine what they taught, which is what was handed down to them, some of them being the direct personal Disciples of John and Paul the Apostles, what you will find in their teachings is the same theological positions, beliefs, ideas and concepts that James Arminius centuries later himself came to the very same conclusions that were taught by the Earliest Church Fathers. In other words James Arminius did not discover something new theologically speaking. He taught the very same things that the direct Disciples of the Apostles taught. His position, his beliefs, his theology is the most Orthodox, the Oldest teachings in Church History. What you will not find in the Early Church Fathers....Ante-Nicene, are any of the concepts, ideas or theological positions that St. Augustine espoused or John Calvin. in other words, St.Augustine's theological beliefs were completely foreign to the Orthodox teachings of the Early Church Fathers and as such, John Calvin's teachings are completely foreign to the Early Church. Do you grasp the significance of this? Theologically speaking: Whatever is true is not new and whatever is new is not true". Blessings! In Christ, Walter Post Reply
View Profile History	What is Arminian Theology? Posted : 23 Oct, 2009 05:11 AM Forum: early church fathers The following is a list of several patristic quotations that relate to the topic of the atonement. Some affirm limited atonement, some are simply germane to the topic of the atonement without necessarily affirming limited atonement. The last two show that interpreting 1 John 2:1-2 the way that Calvin did was not new to Calvin. This is by no means an exhaustive list, and it is not intended to be a representative list. There are a lot of odd statements by the church fathers on the atonement, and a lot of strange theories that some of them adopted. Also, just because they adopted a view of limited atonement (in the sense of understanding that Christ was offered to bear the sins of the elect or in that he redeemed the elect in particular) does not mean that they held to a thoroughly \"Calvinist\" (what an anachronism to call it that!) understanding of TULIP. This, therefore, provides some patristic views of the atonement. Ambrose (c. 339-97): Although Christ suffered for all, yet He suffered for us particularly, because He suffered for the Church. Saint Ambrose of Milan, Exposition of the Holy Gospel according to Saint Luke, trans. Theodosia Tomkinson (Etna: Center for Traditionalist Orthodox Studies, 1998), Book VI, �25, p. 201. Latin Text: Et si Christus pro omnibus passus est, pro nobis tamen specialiter passus est; quia pro Ecclesia passus est. Expositio Evangelii secundum Lucam, 6.25, PL 15:1675. Ambrose (c. 339-97): Great, therefore, is the mystery of Christ, before which even angels stood amazed and bewildered. For this cause, then, it is thy duty to worship Him, and, being a servant, thou oughtest not to detract from thy Lord. Ignorance thou mayest not plead, for to this end He came down, that thou mayest believe; if thou believest not, He has not come down for thee, has not suffered for thee. \"If I had not come,\" saith the Scripture, \"and spoken with them, they would have no sin: but now have they no excuse for their sin. He that hateth Me, hateth My Father also.\" Who, then, hates Christ, if not he who speaks to His dishonor? -- for as it is love\'s part to render, so it is hate\'s to withdraw honor. He who hates, calls in question; he who loves, pays reverence. NPNF2: Vol.: Volume X, Of the Christian Faith, Book IV, Chapter 2, �27. Ambrosiaster: The people of God hath its own fulness. In the elect and foreknown, distinguished from the generality of all, there is accounted a certain special universality; so that the whole world seems to be delivered from the whole world, and all men to be taken out of all men. See Works of John Owen, Vol. 10, p. 423. Latin text: Habet ergo populus Dei plenitudinem suam, et quamvis magna pars hominum, salvantis gratiam aut repellat aut negligat, in electis tamen et praescitis, atque ab omnium generalitate discretis, specialis quaedam censetur universitas, ut de toto mundo totus mundus liberatus, et de omnibus hominibus omnes homines videantur assumpti: De Vocatione Gentium, Liber Primus, Caput III, PL 17:1084. Jerome (347-420) on Matthew 20:28: He does not say that he gave his life for all, but for many, that is, for all those who would believe. See Turretin, Vol. 2, p. 462. Latin text: Non dixit animam suam redemptionem dare pro omnibus, sed pro multis, id est, pro his qui credere voluerint. Commentariorum in Evangelium Matthaei, Liber Tertius, PL 26:144-145. Hilary of Arles (c. 401-449) commenting on 1 John 2:2: When John says that Christ died for the sins of the \"whole world,\" what he means is that he died for the whole church. Introductory Commentary on 1 John. Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture: New Testament, Vol. XI, James, 1-2 Peter, 1-3 John, Jude (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2000), p. 177. Latin text: et non pro nostris tantum. set etiam pro totius mundi peccatis; Aecclesiam mundi nomine appellat. Expositio In Epistolas Catholiicas, Incipit Epistola Sancti Iohannis Apostoli, Cap. II, v. 2, PL Supp. 3:118. Augustine (354-430): 2. But alongside of this love we ought also patiently to endure the hatred of the world. For it must of necessity hate those whom it perceives recoiling from that which is loved by itself. But the Lord supplies us with special consolation from His own case, when, after saying, \"These things I command you, that ye love one another,\" He added, \"If the world hate you, know that it hated me before [it hated] you.\" Why then should the member exalt itself above the head? Thou refusest to be in the body if thou art unwilling to endure the hatred of the world along with the Head. \"If ye were of the world,\" He says, \"the world would love its own.\" He says this, of course, of the whole Church, which, by itself, He frequently also calls by the name of the world: as when it is said, \"God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself.\" And this also: \"The Son of man came not to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.\" And John says in his epistle: \"We have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also [for those] of the whole world.\" The whole world then is the Church, and yet the whole world hateth the Church. The world therefore hateth the world, the hostile that which is reconciled, the condemned that which is saved, the polluted that which is cleansed. 3. But that world which God is in Christ reconciling unto Himself, which is saved by Christ, and has all its sins freely pardoned by Christ, has been chosen out of the world that is hostile, condemned, and defiled. For out of that mass, which has all perished in Adam, are formed the vessels of mercy, whereof that world of reconciliation is composed, that is hated by the world which belongeth to the vessels of wrath that are formed out of the same mass and fitted to destruction. Finally, after saying, \"If ye were of the world, the world would love its own,\" He immediately added, \"But because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.\" And so these men were themselves also of that world, and, that they might no longer be of it, were chosen out of it, through no merit of their own, for no good works of theirs had preceded; and not by nature, which through free-will had become totally corrupted at its source: but gratuitously, that is, of actual grace. For He who chose the world out of the world, effected for Himself, instead of finding, what He should choose: for \"there is a remnant saved according to the election of grace. And if by grace,\" he adds, \"then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.\" NPNF1: Vol. VII, Tractates on John, Tractate LXXXVII, �2-3, John 15:17-19. Augustine (354-430): Hence things that are lawful are not all good, but everything unlawful is not good. Just as everyone redeemed by Christ\'s blood is a human being, but human beings are not all redeemed by Christ\'s blood, so too everything that is unlawful is not good, but things that are not good are not all unlawful. As we learn from the testimony of the apostle, there are some things that are lawful but are not good. John E. Rotelle, O.S.A., ed., Works of Saint Augustine, Adulterous Marriages, Part 1, Vol. 9, trans. Ray Kearney, O.P., Book One, 15, 16 (Hyde Park: New City Press, 1999), p. 153. Chrysostom (349-407) on Hebrews 9:28. \"So Christ was once offered.\": By whom offered? evidently by Himself. Here he says that He is not Priest only, but Victim also, and what is sacrificed. On this account are [the words] \"was offered.\" \"Was once offered\" (he says) \"to bear the sins of many.\" Why \"of many,\" and not \"of all\"? Because not all believed, For He died indeed for all, that is His part: for that death was a counterbalance against the destruction of all men. But He did not bear the sins of all men, because they were not willing. NPNF1: Vol. XIV, Epistle to the Hebrews, Homly 17. Prosper of Aquitaine (d. 463): He is not crucified with Christ who is not a member of the body of Christ. When, therefore, our Saviour is said to be crucified for the redemption of the whole world, because of his true assumption of the human nature, yet may he be said to be crucified only for them unto whom his death was profitable. . . . Diverse from these is their lot who are reckoned amongst them of whom is is said, \'the world knew him not.\' Latin text: Non est autem crucifixus in Christo, qui non est membrum corporis Christi, nec est membrum corporis Christi, qui non per aquam et Spiritum sanctum induit Christum. Qui ideo in infirmitate nostra communionem subiit mortis, ut nos in virtute ejus haberemus consortium resurrectionis. itaque rectissime dicatur Salvator pro totius mundi redemptione crucifixus, propter veram humanae naturae susceptionem, et propter communem in primo homine omnium perditionem: potest tamen dici pro his tantum crucifixus quibus mors ipsius profuit. . . . Diversa ergo ab istis sors eorum est qui inter illos censentur de quibus dicitur; Mundus eum non cognovit. Responsiones ad Capitula Gallorum, Capitulum IX, Responsio, PL 51:165. Prosper of Aquitaine (d. 463): Doubtless the propriety of redemption is theirs from whom the prince of this world is cast out. The death of Christ is not to be so laid out for human-kind, that they also should belong unto his redemption who were not to be regenerated. Latin text: Redemptionis proprietas haud dubie penes illos est, de quibus princeps mundi missus est foras, et jam non vasa diaboli, sed membra sunt Christi. Cujus mors non ita impensa est humano generi, ut ad redemptionem ejus etiam qui regenerandi non erant pertinerint. Responsiones ad Capitula Objectionum Vincentianarum, Capitulum Primum, Responsio, PL 51:178. Theodoret of Cyrrhus (393-466) commenting on Hebrews 9:27-28: As it is appointed for each human being to die once, and the one who accepts death\'s decree no longer sins but awaits the examination of what was done in life, so Christ the Lord, after being offered once for us and taking up our sins, will come to us again, with sin no longer in force, that is, with sin no longer occupying a place as far as human beings are concerned. He said himself, remember, when he still had a mortal body, \"He committed no sin, nor was guile found in his mouth.\" It should be noted, of course, that he bore the sins of many, not of all: not all came to faith, so he removed the sins of the believers only. Robert Charles Hill, Theodoret of Cyrus: Commentary on the Letters of St. Paul, Vol. 2 (Brookline: Holy Cross Orthodox Press, 2001), p. 175. Bede (672/673-735) commenting on 1 John 2:1: The Lord intercedes for us not by words but by his dying compassion, because he took upon himself the sins which he was unwilling to condemn his elect for. On 1 John. Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture: New Testament, Vol. XI, James, 1-2 Peter, 1-3 John, Jude In Primam Epistolam S. Joannis, Caput II, PL 93:89. Bede (672/673-735) commenting on 1 John 2:2: In his humanity Christ pleads for our sins before the Father, but in his divinity he has propitiated them for us with the Father. Furthermore, he has not done this only for those who were alive at the time of his death, but also for the whole church which is scattered over the full compass of the world, and it will be valid for everyone, from the very first among the elect until the last one who will be born at the end of time. This verse is therefore a rebuke to the Donatists, who thought that the true church was to be found only in Africa. The Lord pleads for the sins of the whole world, because the church which he has bought with his blood exists in every corner of the globe. On 1 John. Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture: New Testament, Vol. XI, James, 1-2 Peter, 1-3 John, Jude In Christ Steven Post Reply
View Profile History	What is Arminian Theology? Posted : 23 Oct, 2009 05:35 AM Walter This is what is written in the introduction of one of the earliest church fathers LOL....No,no predestination here..LOL Introductory Note to the Epistle of Ignatius To The Ephesians (Ignatius) *** Ignatius, who is also called Theophorus, to the Church which is at Ephesus, in Asia, deservedly most happy, being blessed in the greatness and fullness of God the Father, and predestinated before the beginning of time, that it should be always for an enduring and unchangeable glory, being united and elected through the true passion by the will of the Father, and Jesus Christ, our God: Abundant happiness through Jesus Christ, and His undefiled grace. (short version) The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians (ignatius) In Christ Steve P.S.You want me to keep going? Post Reply

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