I was reading another forum post and it got me a little stirred up. Just wanted to throw something in here....the pharisees didn't just have the ten commandments....they had their own "pharisee" law that they were making up as they went(I think those were the laws Jesus was talking about...straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel), they had the laws of Moses...the one kept beside the ark of the covenant, on the outside...and written on a scroll(doesn't sound permanent does it? Deut. 31:23-29, and Col 2:14). The old testament Jewish nation had a direct covenant with God. God lived with them. They made some pretty strict laws because God cannot tolerate sin in His presence. They had a sacrificial system(and they kinda forgot this part), that pointed to the messiah and his work. When Jesus came and died, they didn't need to have all the sacrificial system stuff anymore right? Type had met anti-type.
However, God's ten commandment law was inside the golden ark, written on stone(sounds precious and permanent). It wasn't for the Jews only. You could see it at the beginning...in the Garden of Eden. He created the 7th day "sabbath" before He wrote the ten commandments down(if you read Gen. 2:1-4 and Exodus 20:11, they're almost the same...) . Cain was an outcast because he committed murder. This was before Jewish people existed. Back when they were just...human. I believe the Ten Commandment law is God's character, interpreted in a way that we could understand it in human terms...and so we could know what sin is, and try to avoid it(Rom. 7:7, Rom. 3:20.)
Anyway...long story short...I believe that the "laws and ordinances nailed to the cross"(Col. 2:14, Eph. 2:15) were the "Laws of Moses" that WERE only for the Jews(look at how much Paul preaches against forcing "circumcision", and "not eating food offered to idols", and so on...those are in the mosaic law, not the ten commandments), and the laws concerning the sacrificial system, Jewish holy days, and the prophets that pointed to Jesus, which He fulfilled(Matt. 5:17-19). I don't think it was the Ten Commandments. Later on in Matthew 5(verse 20 and on) he talks about several of the commandments and He says "Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment" and "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Now I don't know about you...but keeping the spirit of the law sounds harder then just keeping it! And...I don't think it's possible for anyone to keep it perfectly. If it was, Jesus wouldn't have had to die. But I do think we're supposed to try. I don't think the ten commandments are any less important then God's own character...and I don't think they are any less invincible...it's just what I believe...don't take my word for it, look it up. You might even read 3 verses before and after the texts I gave to make sure it's in context. And then let's have a discussion!:yay:
:peace::peace:
Here's a few more random ones I found.
1 JOHN 5:3
JAM. 2:10-12
PSALMS 19:7
LUKE 16:17
...and part of the reason I'm bringing this up is because I find these conversations strange...help me out.
Me: Do you think we should pray to the sun?
Answer: What? No! Are you a freak?
Me: Do you think we should make or worship Idols?
Answer: No!
Me: Do you think we should take the name of God in vain?
Answer: No way!
Me: Do you think we should honor our father and mother?
Answer: Yes! As long as what they ask doesn't go against God!
Me: Do you believe stealing is wrong?
Answer: Definitely!
Me: Murder bad?
Answer: Oh yeah! Very bad! Life is precious!
Me: Adultery?
Answer: It's not right to abuse your sacred marriage vows! It's just wrong!
Me: Bear false witness?
Answer: Horrible! Even gossip and white lies are bad!
Me: Thou shalt not covet??
Answer: It's Bad! Evil! Sin!
Me: Should we remember the seventh day to keep it holy?
Answer: *Insert your answer here*
(The answer I get the most is "No, we're not under the law, it was done away with at the cross. Now we keep Sunday, to honor the Lord's resurrection." Or, "Everyday is my sabbath".)
Dear brother, if you walk in the SPIRIT of GOD, HE will not lead you to worship idols. Also, the teachings of CHRIST and the Apostles in the New Testament Scriptures tells us not to do such things as worshipping idols.
1Jo 5:21
Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
Here brother, in love, I'll end my comments on this post concerning this topic. May the LORD give you understanding in All things. Peace be unto you as you seek the LORD with your whole heart.
Ok, so if we're not led by the spirit to worship idols...shouldn't we be led by the spirit to keep the 7th day holy? Apparently the spirit leads us away from sin. Is breaking the 4th commandment sin? If you break any of the other 9 commandments it is. We would not know sin except through the law, and the 4th commandment is in the law. Why does the "law abolished" only apply to the 4th commandment...that's all I want to know. I would think that if God decided to erase just one of His eternal commandments, He would have made it very clear...because He says throughout the Bible that not one letter of it would be erased.
The catholic(the papacy of the 1st-2nd century)togther with Constantine the Roman emperor changed the 4th commandment.The Catholic have it as the 3rd commandament(the Lord's day) and do you know way?
so to eliminate the 2nd commandament:you shall not make any carved images of anything that is in Heven or earth !
They do not have the second commandament at all.
To worship on Sunday means for many that Jesus was risen
on Sunday.Are you absolutely sure?
When they,the pharisees,asked for a sign,Jesus said :only one sign will be given and that's the sign of Jonah.As Jonah was in the belly of the fish 3 days and 3 nights so the son of Man shall be 3 days and 3 nights in the grave.
Many believes that Jesus died on Friday,so how can you fit
3 days and 3 nights from Friday evening to sunday morning?
One more thing Mary Magdalene very early in the morning
saw the empty tomb ,does not mean that the Lord was risen at that moment.Jesus was already risen sometime before perhaps at the sabbath sunset !!!! Therefore if we count backward we end up on Wednsday sunset.Only so can 3 days ad 3 nights fit. The glue is that during that week of the passover(feast of the unleavened bread) there were two Sabbaths,a hight sabbath and the weekly sabbath!!!!
He was already risen and on sunday(the first day of the week) there was to celebrate the wave sheaf offering(
the first grane offering)(the first fruis) and Jesus is the first fruit,Amen.
People should look in to this and not just follow what they have been told! When it comes to the TRUTH one has to search for it.
Another subject is celebrating Easter and christmas
which are not Biblical.This are pagan Festivals grafted in to Christianity by deception and political reason during the first and second century.The early apostolic Church never celebrated such holidays................................
As you can imagine the devil is lying from the beginning to deceive even the elect .
I honestly never thought of it that way...it doesn't say for sure what time Jesus rose from the dead. But it does say He died on Friday night, rested on Saturday, and rose on Sunday morning. And isn't it odd that Jesus "rested" in the grave on Saturday?(Why exactly did He do that?) And that all His disciples kept the sabbath?(Luke 23:56) You'd think Jesus would have said something like "Don't keep the seventh day holy any longer, but keep the first day holy in honor of my resurrection"..or something like that...and personally...I'd need to see that verse in the Bible before I could feel like worshiping on Sunday instead of Saturday was "ok". Somehow I doubt Jesus would say it's "ok" to steal...and I didn't see him say it was "ok" to break the sabbath. And I know we're not "under" the law...but we still keep it "in the spirit" so...just seems like there isn't much scripture to back the Sunday thing up. If someone can find one that says God changed the 4th commandment, let me know so I can keep Sunday. And I would. Not kidding. I want to do what God tells me. And if God says "worship on Sunday"...then I will. But I'm having trouble finding that verse on my own. Help me out.
It's important to understand that there were two sets of laws:
1) the moral law namely the 10 commandments written by the Finger of God,on tablets of stone.
2)the ceremonial laws,sabbaths festvals,with all it's rules and regulationt;this were mainely sacrficial laws offered for the forgiveness of sins by the blood of animals and so on.This were written by the hand of Moses on a book,namely the mosaic laws.
This ceremonial laws were naled at the cross by our Lord Jesus Christ.When He said it's finished,He took the sins of the world(all the elected) on Him(the lamb of God)and made the sacrifyce offering,with His precious blood,once and for all.
This is the wondeful Love-Grace of God which does not do away wih the 10 commandments,on the contrary we uphold such law.
The moral law namely the 10 commandments are unchangeble and perpetual.
Jesus did not come to abolish them but to fulfill(to complete)
in two main commandments:
1)Love the Lord your God with all your heart,your soul and your mind.(this in reality fulfilsl the commandments ffrom 1 to 4)
2)love your neighbor as yourself(this in reality fulfills the commandmnts from 5 to 10).
On this two hang all the Law and the rophets,Matthew 22:37-40
In John 14:15 Jesus said: If you love me keep My commandments.
In John 14:21 He said He who has My commadments and keeps them,it is he who loves Me.And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father,and i will love him and manifest Myself to him.
Revelation 14:12 The patience of the saints,are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Ecclesistes 12:13 Fear God and keep his commandments,
For this is the whole duty of man.
In closing about the 4th commandment,the weekly sabbath,not to be confused with the sabbaths annuals festvals,is a Holy day of the Lord honorable,it remains forever and JESUS IS THE LORD OF THE SABBATH,Mark 2:28.
Remember the Sabbath was blessed and sanctified,Genesis 2:3,not Sunday.
Moreover the Sabbath was made for man,Mark 2:27,not the Sunday
No where in the Bible there is a change from Sabbath keeping to a Sunday keeping...if were so...the Lord would have mentioned it.
Jesus always kept the 10 Commandments,Sabbath icluded.
What He did not keep was the cerimonial laws with all it's rules and regulation.
As you can remember Jesus,almost always,confronted the Pharisees and the scribes on the Sabbath because they crafted into it many non sens rules and regulation which were a burden to the people.So He came to distroy this laws not the 10 commandments nor the the Sabbath Holy day of the Lord.
Te apostle and the first true church kept the 10 commandments and the Sabbath always.
It was later (2nd-3rd century)with the apostate church and paganism,during the Roman Emperor Constntine they changed times and laws,just as the prophet Daniel said.
Sunday worship,good friday,Chistmas and Easter are not biblical.Jesus's desciples ,the first church did not celebrate such things.What they celebrated was the pass over,the last supper and Jesus said to them:do this in remembrance of me.....But that's another story.
Well i hope i have cleared up some miconcept.
Let us not be deceived for the devil is at work since the beginning to avert the TRUTH.
May the Love of God and the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ
The pharisees and the scribes said:Teacher we want to see a sign from you.
And Jesus answered:no sign will be given except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
For as Jonah was # days and 3 nights in the belly of the great fish,so the Son of Man be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth.Matthew 12:38-40
Now how can we fit 3 days and 3 nights from Friday sunset to Sunday sunset.
It's possible that during that week there were two Sabbaths?
the High day Sabbath John 19:31 which was the feast of the unleavened bread and the weekly Sabbath.
In this case Thursday would have been the High Sabbath.
A careful study could bring us to Wednsdy the actual day of
the Lord's death.So from the burial wednsday sunset to
Sabbath sunset there are 3 days and 3 nights.
Remember that on Sunday earlier,while was stil dark.Mary-Magdalene discovered that the tomb was empty.The Lord was risen already,much probably at the end of Sabbath sunset and appeared early in the morning on Sunday to Mary-Magdalene.......................
I know this is an old post, but I have to add something here.
First of all if you accept Gods Grace of Jesus as you personal Savior,then you won't want to Kill,Steal , you will want to honor the Sabbath or any of the other holy laws or Ten Commandments. No once we accept Christ as Savior we know the Law does not get us to heaven but after accepting Christ you will not want to break these laws, now we all sin and fall short of his Glory but he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins when we come to him and ask. I am not saying you might not comit sin but you will not want to and you will be convicted of it, if you do.Hopefuly by staying in his word you will be convicted before you act on this sin. He is just to forgive us if you mean it in your heart. This does not give us permission to comit sin but if you do He is faithful to forgive us if we repent and truly mean it in our heart.
God Bless I hope maybe something I said helps in some way
i believe that too since i'm a seventh-day adventist..
Jesus and His disciples were accustomed to the 7th-day Sabbath and Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever as recorded in Hebrews 13:8...so Jesus would not ever changed what He had established Because God is a God of honor...
woe to THEM who are rejecting God's Law esp.the Sabbath...
The law/instruction/Torah was not abolished when Yeshua came, He came to fulfill it and one needs to know that there are two kinds of law...the oral which comprises of 60,000 and done by the scribes which were expounded from the Written Law which is only 613 that rooted from the 10 commandments. The Law that Yeshua is trying to abolished is the oral law because even them (the scribes) cannot manage to fulfill it and the pharisees, Sanhedrin motives were just to control people........contrary to what the Written Law is giving.....life and freedom.
Next...Shabbat is a holy day for YHWH, it was set apart and a holy convocation given to His children that should be practiced from generation to generation wherever they are...and if Yeshua/Jesus observed and practice Shabbat, then who are we not to follow, if we claim that we are His disciples?...and Who is the Lord of Shabbat?, nonetheless..... Yeshua Ha'Massiach.
