I’m going to post a series of articles that help explain and correct some of the heresies that keep popping up on forum threads here, especially those posted by the formally featured Chuckk and now posted under his new aliases and/or even a willing accomplice, Quiznos.
Please review this article and see for yourself
Ebionites- Early Jewish Christians and Islamic Christology
Thread starterDavidSon Start dateAug 3, 2019
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DavidSon
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Aug 3, 2019
#1
The subject of the Ebionites, Nazarenes, and other early sects was brought up here by @Serveto and a few of the older members. Recently a childishly generic description of the "Poor Ones" was posted, but searching a bit deeper I think this part of history is worth understanding clearly.
"Ebionites (Greek: Ἐβιωναῖοι, Ebionaioi, derived from Hebrew אביונים ebyonim, ebionim, meaning "the poor" or "poor ones") is a patristic term referring to a Jewish Christian movement that existed during the early centuries of the Christian Era. They regarded Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah while rejecting his divinity and his virgin birth, and insisted on the necessity of following Jewish law and rites. They used only one of the Jewish–Christian gospels, the Hebrew Book of Matthew starting at chapter three; revered James, the brother of Jesus (James the Just); and rejected Paul the Apostle as an apostate from the Law. Their name suggests that they placed a special value on voluntary poverty."
"The majority of Church Fathers agree that the Ebionites rejected many of the precepts central to Nicene orthodoxy, such as Jesus' pre-existence, divinity, virgin birth, atoning death and physical resurrection. On the other hand, an Ebionite story has Jesus eating bread with his brother, Jacob ("James the Just"), after the resurrection, which indicates that they, or at least the ones who accepted this version of the Gospel of the Hebrews, believed in a physical resurrection of Jesus."
"The Ebionites are described as emphasizing the oneness of God and the humanity of Jesus as the biological son of Mary and Joseph, who, by virtue of his righteousness, was chosen by God to be the messianic "prophet like Moses" when he was anointed with the Holy Spirit at his baptism. Origen and Eusebius recognize some variation in the Christology of Ebionite groups; for example, that while all denied Jesus' pre-existence, there was a sub-group which did not deny the virgin birth. Theodoret, while dependent on earlier writers, draws the conclusion that the two sub-groups would have used different Gospels."
"The 12th century Muslim historian Muhammad al-Shahrastani mentions Jews living in nearby Medina and Hejaz who accepted Jesus as a prophetic figure and followed traditional Judaism, rejecting mainstream Christian views. Some scholars argue that they contributed to the development of the Islamic view of Jesus due to exchanges of Ebionite remnants with the first Muslims."
"... Paul Addae and Tim Bowes write that the Ebionites were faithful to the original teachings of Jesus and thus shared Islamic views about Jesus' humanity and also rejected the redemptive death, though the Islamic view of Jesus may conflict with the view of some Ebionites regarding the virgin birth, respectively denying and affirming, according to Epiphanius. One of the first men to believe in the prophethood of Muhammad was possibly an Ebionite (sometimes argued to be Nestorian) monk named Waraqah ibn Nawfal, the cousin of Mohammed's wife Khadija, who Muslims honor as a pious man with deep knowledge of the Christian scriptures."
"Hans Joachim Schoeps observes that the Christianity Muhammad was likely to have encountered on the Arabian peninsula "was not the state religion of Byzantium but a schismatic Christianity characterized by Ebionite and Monophysite views:
"Thus we have a paradox of world-historical proportions, viz., the fact that Jewish Christianity indeed disappeared within the Christian church, but was preserved in Islam and thereby extended some of its basic ideas even to our own day. According to Islamic doctrine, the Ebionite combination of Moses and Jesus found its fulfillment in Muhammad"
"Jesus never taught you had to believe his Mom was a virgin.''
First thanks for answering my questions, I think??? You didn't have to but you elected too. So Chuck, you just love to be argumentative, don't you! Of course "Jesus" never taught that! What's the purpose in that argument, just to ARGUE! Right?
Look if the Bible says He was born of a virgin, that's all you need to know! So you either believe THAT TRUTH, or you don't AND that HE is different in the way He was made, no earthly dad. Real simple no and you make it sound like its not truth just because He did not says so!
True its not a salvation issue, like keeping His commandments the Bible clearly says so. BUT here is the scoop! If you deny what the Bible tells you and you claim some kind of "spirit" told you differently, then YOU DO NOT FOLLOW THE TRUTH, you believe a lie and THAT is a salvation issue! GOT IT! Try to weasel your way out from what the Bible clearly says and do a play on the obvious by saying "Jesus never taught you had to believe his Mom was a virgin.'' is avoiding the plain question and trying to discount waht the Bible says.
"As for the physical resurrection, I believe Jesus DID rise from the dead, but I think Scripture leaves some ambiguity on the table to exactly in what form."????"
No Chuck the BIBLE does not leave any question to what "form" he came from the grave/hell as. Remember the women at the grave site Chuck and one of them handling a REAL physical bodily person, JUST like the Bible clearly describes a PHYSICAL resurrection of His Saints in the end of age of this present earth! Then there was the appearing to His Disciples in the upper room and EATING FOOD in front of them! Thomas handling him, his wounds! I could go on and on but you would only be interested in arguing simple Christian Biblical truth by arguing it
Wow! Don't know how you miss the simple statements in the Bible Chuck. Not much for study and truth are you?
True its not a salvation issue, like keeping His commandments the Bible clearly says so. BUT here is the scoop! If you deny what the Bible tells you and you claim some kind of "spirit" told you differently, then YOU DO NOT FOLLOW THE TRUTH, you believe a lie and THAT is a salvation issue!
End quote
You nailed it Tedds!
I was told to "rile them up on the forum tonight"
Seems you beat me to it. Well done good and faithful servant!
Richard, Chuck and others just cannot except the facts of the description of the earth in the Bible! It says nothing of a ball or sphere shape earth, so where is their defense???
The Bible describes the earth as His footstool, has 4 corners, has ends to it, I could go on and on but I may be throwing my pearls before swine??? Right KJO?
Well I'm out of here for the night! GO GET THEM GIRL! Be a faithful flatard like me!
"khutzpah: When I quote God's Word in the NT which contradicts your beliefs that Jesus was not born to a **VIRGIN** you respond by implying the NT is not inspired by God which shows that Jesus was born to a **VIRGIN** taught by the inspired books of Matthew, Mark and Luke!!"
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This is what I mean by you lying about others. I NEVER SAID I didn't think Jesus was born to a virgin. What I DID SAY IS: Jesus (and Paul for that matter) NEVER teach this is something a person has to believe to be saved.
You started out civil. I'm going to focus on that and ignore the rest.
First off, our main disagreement even before we get to a virgin birth is Textual Criticism. You may or may not know what that is. It would help our Communication if you did. Our differences lay in the fact I am a Textual Critic and you are not. And you don't understand how someone like me can value the Scriptures, reading and studying them daily without believing like you. Not to be rude, but that is your problem, not mine.
Second off, I believe since Jesus and Paul didn't teach a virgin birth, that I should not put more importance on it than they did.
Third off, the resurrection. Paul says flesh and blood will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus had a body that walked through walls and floats up to heaven. Yes, there is some ambiguity as to what kind of body does that.
Teddy, I am not your enemy. I just read the Bible differently from you. I read the Bible as a Jew who believes Jesus is the Messiah. Jews do not demand perfect inerrancy. Yet Christians take the same Jewish Scriptures after the fact and demand perfect inerrancy. To me that doesn't make sense. But I also
respect your right to do so, just force your beliefs about Scripture on me, demanding I believe like you.
I value Scripture as much as you, but I value the voice of G-D in my heart and mind even more. I refuse to let you or anyone else take that away from me.
Khutzpah has strongly implied that you don't have to beiieve that Jesus was born of a Virgin to be saved.even though God's inspired Word definitely states that Jesus was born of a virgin. And of course if Jesus was born in a natural way he would not be **GOD** and God's Word states **7 TIMES THAT JESUS IS GOD** And then the blood of Jesus could not make atonement for our sins.
Using this logic you could also say that you can **ADD WORDS** or **TAKE WORDS AWAY** FROM THE BOOK OF REVELATION** and still be saved. However Jesus Himself would disagree with you!!
Revelation 22:16-19: "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony **FOT THE CHURCHES.... I warn everyone who hears the words of this prophecy of this scroll: If anyone **ADDS** anything to them God will add to them the plagues described in this book {Including eternal torment in hell as per Rev 14:9-11}And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY* {Like Khutzpah} from this book of prophecy, God will take away from them any share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The eternal New Jerusalem} which are described in this book!!"
John 12:48: Jesus says, "There is a Judge for the one who does not accept My Words, the very words have spoken will **CONDEMN THEM** at the Last Day.
So here Jesus promises that anyone that does not accept **ALL* of His words will be **CONDEMNED** and **NOT BE SAVED**!!
John 16:12-14: Jesus says,, "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when the spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all the Truth. He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will **GLORIY ME BECAUSE IT IS **FROM ME**THAT HE WILL RECEIVE WHAT HE WILL MAKE KNOWN TO YOU**!!"
And so Jesus tells the holy spirit to inspire the 8 writers of the New Testament to write the exact words that Jesus wants them to write.
Hebrews 12:1,2: Let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us , fixing our **EYES ON JESUS**, the **AUTHOR** and **PERFECTOR** of our faith!!
You didn't have to but you elected too. So Chuck, you just love to be argumentative, don't you! Of course "Jesus" never taught that! What's the purpose in that argument, just to ARGUE! Right? 
